Can Someone define Top/Mid/Low Tier schools?

[TonySoprano]

Tier doesn't matter

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[krogers21]

Wasn't trying to be egotistical. Just trying to get an idea so I know how to apply when I'm advised to apply to x amount of so and so tier.

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to imply that inquiring about the SDN "tiers" is egotistical. I was just stating that the existence of these tiers doesn't scream "I want to heal people" but "I want to seem smart"

 

[Gauss44]

I never said it was typical. I said it was what I would consider happens when you go to a school with good financial aid. If a school just loads you up with the standard federal loans, that's not good financial aid. That's just the standard that we're all entitled to.

And schools that just load you up with private non-federal student loans like Sallie Mae Signature Loans aren't providing good financial aid either. I've heard of schools that do this because federal aid has limits below their cost of attendance.

 

[RocDiva4040]

Listen chief, I am not complaining about the URM advantage. I am acknowledging that it exists. I have said nothing disparate about the URM advantage. The only thing I have been disparate about is people who insist it had nothing to do with their success in applying to medical school, let alone 17. Also, lets try and get back to the point that the person I was addressing here originally, has been unrelentingly tactless on SDN in general, and it was about time something was said. Further, 5 acceptances is a modest number, so I would hardly call that bragging. There is nothing I have posted here that contradicts any of the threads I authored, so nice try.

I don't think anyone in this thread has said anything of the sort. You are the one who claimed that URM's get in PRIMARILY (first and foremost) because they are URM and not because of their many accomplishments, back story etc. which is simply not true. Of course URM status is a factor (as it should be), but it is never the sole or most important reason why an applicant is accepted. If you don't have the grades and score you just don't get in. Trust me. I beasted a prestigious private school and killed the SAT- got into Harvard all while overcoming many challenges. I believe my Harvard acceptance was well deserved and not simply because of my URM status. At Harvard, I did average (due to personal reasons) and just ok on the MCAT- one top 40 school acceptance. URM status is simply one factor just like being from a rural area, or being a first generation college student etc. is. It doesn't help as much as you think it does.

 

[Espadaleader]

I just wanted to speak my piece. When I talk about my accomplishments I do it to show that I made it. That I was successful. That despite the odds against me I was able to overcome these obstacles and earn success. I do it to inspire and motivate and encourage others that have been told for years that they are not good enough.

Listen, I grew up poor, I was homeless, I grew up in a single parent household, I saw death, I saw despair. I went to college. Bro I couldn't even do fractions. I wasn't thinking about Harvard, I was just trying to make it. I just thinking about having food on the table. Real talk. When I got a little better in school, I was the only black kid in my class. I couldn't even share my success without someone pulling the race card. Bro, why can't I just be a good student? Imagine being surrounded by all these people that are intimidated by your success and want to take it away from you just because of your color. I had people mentor me and guide me on my path, so now that I made it it is my job to tell pay it forward and tell people my story. I got to Harvard without a father. I got to Hopkins with family members on drugs. I got to Columbia being homeless and washing up in cold water for 6 months of the year because we couldn't afford the gas bill. I got 17 interviews despite the struggle. Bro, you can be successful. You can get the American dream. Don't worry about people saying its too hard. Don't worry about people saying URMs don't deserve it. You got this bro and its my duty to help you.

This is what we do in the underrepresented forum. We have so many acceptances!!!! and we support each other because we already know everyone on that forum struggled and the support from people on the forum means a lot.

Most of us shy away from the main forum because people just don't understand. He's bragging. He's a URM, He's Black, He didn't work hard. You don't even know me bro? How can you say that? Listen, if I dont tell my story. That poor discouraged student in his freshman year won't make it. Its my job.

I don't give a mother**** about being better than someone. Dude. My live revolved around actually SURVIVING on a day by day basis. You worrying about organic chem. I am worrying about the guy that got shot in front of my house yesterday and whether we will be homeless next month. I don't have time to worry about someone else or to be cocky.

You people that jump directly to accusing me of being cocky. Damn, congratulate me on my success as I would yours. Keep it moving. Its so much hate and animosity. Just stop it. Real talk.

As for tiers, its much more complicated for a URM. Outside of PR and the HBCUs most URMs are concentrated at the top. The top 20 schools tend to have the most support for URMs and the most numbers and support. The have the endowments and financial aid to support us in our studies, recruit us to second look etc. Tiers actually DO matter for URM students. The top tiers recruit URMs heavily and its known in our community, which again is often misinterpreted. When I say I got into Harvard, Yale etc. The URMs already know this is a school that is tolerant of diverse experiences and this is a school that they can get into and a school they can thrive at. Let me repeat that. When I say I got into Harvard, Yale etc. The URMs already know this is a school that is tolerant of diverse experiences and this is a school that they can get into and a school they can thrive at because outside of the top 20-40 schools the support for URMs (excluding PR and HBCU's really is not there). This stuff is soooo much more complicated the stuff you guys make it out to be.

Some of the smartest people in the country if not the world on on this forum. Bottom line, we're all on the same team. Please try to understand where I am coming from if you haven't already.

 

[Espadaleader]

How is it tactful? So since @Espadaleader had a successful cycle, he shouldn't use himself as an example because other applicants who weren't as successful would be offended? Seriously? And your implication that URMs primarily have this type of success is inaccurate and offensive. Let's avoid heading at that direction.

Focus on what @Espadaleader is arguing rather than attacking him for "boasting" his success.

Thanks for having my back on this. If people that struggled don't see my success then they may not even apply. I actually didn't think I was smart enough in undergrad but people put faith in me by showing my that they did it. I met people that made it to Ivies living in a one room apartment with ten people, made to Ivies with 5 children, made it to Ivies without a father. If they did't tell there stories, if we don't tell our stories then everything we did is worthless. The only thing that matters is that I use myself for an example for others because if others didn't tell their stories I wouldn't be here. Its not a maybe. I would not be here. @Agent B you're def on my list of people I have to meet in real life.

 

[scarletgirl777]

And schools that just load you up with private non-federal student loans like Sallie Mae Signature Loans aren't providing good financial aid either. I've heard of schools that do this because federal aid has limits below their cost of attendance.

There are strict limits for what a college student can borrow from the government to go to college but it's different for graduate or professional school. There is a limit on federal Stafford loans, but I don't think there's a limit on federal Grad PLUS loans--you are allowed to borrow the entire cost of attendance. I know some people who have private loans but I'm not sure why--you have to pass a credit check to get a Grad PLUS loan and if your credit is in the toilet then yeah, you won't qualify. There's also a lot of people whose parents didn't chip in much for college and they might have private loans that way. Having said that, if you end up spending more than whatever the med schools says is the cost of attendance, the federal govt can't help you. By law the cost of attendance can't include the cost of a car, and a lot of people are not able to get the cost of applying to residency and moving to their new residency covered under their cost of attendance. There's some schools that (purposefully???) low ball their cost of attendance and that can make things difficult and I've met people who've gone into credit card debt. I guess there's also the rare person with drug convictions or who doesn't have citizenship/a green card--those people are specifically excluded from getting federal loans.

 

[No Limits]

First, I'd like to point out a 33 is very respectable score and last time I checked the MSAR that score is good enough to get you interviewed at many great schools.

Second, congrats @Espadaleader! 17 interviews is insane regardless what race you are. Not sure what school you will matriculate at but I wish you good luck and success.

 

[drumstix]

Sorry if this is going over my head, but whom are you referring to?

should've said "TO WHOM are you referring"

 

[hubriz]

I just wanted to speak my piece. When I talk about my accomplishments I do it to show that I made it. That I was successful. That despite the odds against me I was able to overcome these obstacles and earn success. I do it to inspire and motivate and encourage others that have been told for years that they are not good enough.

Listen, I grew up poor, I was homeless, I grew up in a single parent household, I saw death, I saw despair. I went to college. Bro I couldn't even do fractions. I wasn't thinking about Harvard, I was just trying to make it. I just thinking about having food on the table. Real talk. When I got a little better in school, I was the only black kid in my class. I couldn't even share my success without someone pulling the race card. Bro, why can't I just be a good student? Imagine being surrounded by all these people that are intimidated by your success and want to take it away from you just because of your color. I had people mentor me and guide me on my path, so now that I made it it is my job to tell pay it forward and tell people my story. I got to Harvard without a father. I got to Hopkins with family members on drugs. I got to Columbia being homeless and washing up in cold water for 6 months of the year because we couldn't afford the gas bill. I got 17 interviews despite the struggle. Bro, you can be successful. You can get the American dream. Don't worry about people saying its too hard. Don't worry about people saying URMs don't deserve it. You got this bro and its my duty to help you.

This is what we do in the underrepresented forum. We have so many acceptances!!!! and we support each other because we already know everyone on that forum struggled and the support from people on the forum means a lot.

Most of us shy away from the main forum because people just don't understand. He's bragging. He's a URM, He's Black, He didn't work hard. You don't even know me bro? How can you say that? Listen, if I dont tell my story. That poor discouraged student in his freshman year won't make it. Its my job.

I don't give a mother**** about being better than someone. Dude. My live revolved around actually SURVIVING on a day by day basis. You worrying about organic chem. I am worrying about the guy that got shot in front of my house yesterday and whether we will be homeless next month. I don't have time to worry about someone else or to be cocky.

You people that jump directly to accusing me of being cocky. Damn, congratulate me on my success as I would yours. Keep it moving. Its so much hate and animosity. Just stop it. Real talk.

As for tiers, its much more complicated for a URM. Outside of PR and the HBCUs most URMs are concentrated at the top. The top 20 schools tend to have the most support for URMs and the most numbers and support. The have the endowments and financial aid to support us in our studies, recruit us to second look etc. Tiers actually DO matter for URM students. The top tiers recruit URMs heavily and its known in our community, which again is often misinterpreted. When I say I got into Harvard, Yale etc. The URMs already know this is a school that is tolerant of diverse experiences and this is a school that they can get into and a school they can thrive at. Let me repeat that. When I say I got into Harvard, Yale etc. The URMs already know this is a school that is tolerant of diverse experiences and this is a school that they can get into and a school they can thrive at because outside of the top 20-40 schools the support for URMs (excluding PR and HBCU's really is not there). This stuff is soooo much more complicated the stuff you guys make it out to be.

Some of the smartest people in the country if not the world on on this forum. Bottom line, we're all on the same team. Please try to understand where I am coming from if you haven't already.

*fist bump

Respect. Big time.

 

[487806]

I just wanted to speak my piece. When I talk about my accomplishments I do it to show that I made it. That I was successful. That despite the odds against me I was able to overcome these obstacles and earn success. I do it to inspire and motivate and encourage others that have been told for years that they are not good enough.

Listen, I grew up poor, I was homeless, I grew up in a single parent household, I saw death, I saw despair. I went to college. Bro I couldn't even do fractions. I wasn't thinking about Harvard, I was just trying to make it. I just thinking about having food on the table. Real talk. When I got a little better in school, I was the only black kid in my class. I couldn't even share my success without someone pulling the race card. Bro, why can't I just be a good student? Imagine being surrounded by all these people that are intimidated by your success and want to take it away from you just because of your color. I had people mentor me and guide me on my path, so now that I made it it is my job to tell pay it forward and tell people my story. I got to Harvard without a father. I got to Hopkins with family members on drugs. I got to Columbia being homeless and washing up in cold water for 6 months of the year because we couldn't afford the gas bill. I got 17 interviews despite the struggle. Bro, you can be successful. You can get the American dream. Don't worry about people saying its too hard. Don't worry about people saying URMs don't deserve it. You got this bro and its my duty to help you.

This is what we do in the underrepresented forum. We have so many acceptances!!!! and we support each other because we already know everyone on that forum struggled and the support from people on the forum means a lot.

Most of us shy away from the main forum because people just don't understand. He's bragging. He's a URM, He's Black, He didn't work hard. You don't even know me bro? How can you say that? Listen, if I dont tell my story. That poor discouraged student in his freshman year won't make it. Its my job.

I don't give a mother**** about being better than someone. Dude. My live revolved around actually SURVIVING on a day by day basis. You worrying about organic chem. I am worrying about the guy that got shot in front of my house yesterday and whether we will be homeless next month. I don't have time to worry about someone else or to be cocky.

You people that jump directly to accusing me of being cocky. Damn, congratulate me on my success as I would yours. Keep it moving. Its so much hate and animosity. Just stop it. Real talk.

As for tiers, its much more complicated for a URM. Outside of PR and the HBCUs most URMs are concentrated at the top. The top 20 schools tend to have the most support for URMs and the most numbers and support. The have the endowments and financial aid to support us in our studies, recruit us to second look etc. Tiers actually DO matter for URM students. The top tiers recruit URMs heavily and its known in our community, which again is often misinterpreted. When I say I got into Harvard, Yale etc. The URMs already know this is a school that is tolerant of diverse experiences and this is a school that they can get into and a school they can thrive at. Let me repeat that. When I say I got into Harvard, Yale etc. The URMs already know this is a school that is tolerant of diverse experiences and this is a school that they can get into and a school they can thrive at because outside of the top 20-40 schools the support for URMs (excluding PR and HBCU's really is not there). This stuff is soooo much more complicated the stuff you guys make it out to be.

Some of the smartest people in the country if not the world on on this forum. Bottom line, we're all on the same team. Please try to understand where I am coming from if you haven't already.

Truly a remarkable life story. It's a shame people the likes of @baconshrimps and @sourdoughllama will mercilessly attack members like you (jumping into conclusion out of sheer envy, name calling, subtle insults etc.), but I guess they'll never learn. Funny how you can see the true colors of certain members just by reading this thread.

Anyways, job well done. You're an awesome guy and best wishes on your future endeavors.

 

[baconshrimps]

Truly a remarkable life story. It's a shame people the likes of @baconshrimps and @sourdoughllama will mercilessly attack members like you (jumping into conclusion out of sheer envy, name calling, subtle insults etc.), but I guess they'll never learn. Funny how you can see the true colors of certain members just by reading this thread.

Anyways, job well done. You're an awesome guy and best wishes on your future endeavors.

How about remarkable grades?
Stop tagging me - I have no other reason to be in here, @AgentB.

 

[sourdoughllama]

Truly a remarkable life story. It's a shame people the likes of @baconshrimps and @sourdoughllama will mercilessly attack members like you (jumping into conclusion out of sheer envy, name calling, subtle insults etc.), but I guess they'll never learn. Funny how you can see the true colors of certain members just by reading this thread.

Anyways, job well done. You're an awesome guy and best wishes on your future endeavors.

Welcome to the rest of the world where we don't condone being a cocky bastard with below avg credentials relative to your success. Had espadaleader kept his trap shut and stuck to the topic, no one would've attacked him. You're gonna be called out when you humblebrag (more like obvious brag) with URM status.

 

[Harpsx]

Oh come on. Who cares if it was a humble brag or not. It doesnt affect you. If youre happy with your own cycle then why does it matter how others did?

 

[487806]

Welcome to the rest of the world where we don't condone being a cocky bastard with below avg credentials relative to your success. Had espadaleader kept his trap shut and stuck to the topic, no one would've attacked him. You're gonna be called out when you humblebrag (more like obvious brag) with URM status.

I still don't understand the bolded. Again, he did stick to the topic in his first post and used himself as an example. You and few others didn't like that and attacked him out of envy, expecting that he's offending others due to his arrogance when that wasn't his intention. Not sure what's there to get so worked up.

Oh come on. Who cares if it was a humble brag or not. It doesnt affect you. If youre happy with your own cycle then why does it matter how others did?

Well, considering the rage going on in this thread, it's just envy.

 

[terp720]

yeah it seemed liked you and baconshrimps were really the only people throwing a fit about this..

I get it if you're just against all bragging in general, I don't really care for it either.
But to specifically say "humblebrag with URM status" is just offensive and uncalled for. Try being happy for people and maybe they'll be happy for your success

Welcome to the rest of the world where we don't condone being a cocky bastard with below avg credentials relative to your success. Had espadaleader kept his trap shut and stuck to the topic, no one would've attacked him. You're gonna be called out when you humblebrag (more like obvious brag) with URM status.

 

[sourdoughllama]

.

 

[487806]

You sound like a major tool calling others envious when clearly we are plenty happy with our application cycles. And no, if you can read past single words, his intentions are plenty clear. Either way, you guys can go celebrate his success and the rest of us won't.

Ok you're not envious, yet you had this specific urge to call out on someone and attack them for bragging. Makes perfect sense.

 

[sourdoughllama]

.

 

[sourdoughllama]

Ok you're not envious, yet you had this specific urge to call out on someone and attack them for bragging. Makes perfect sense.

You got me

 

[terp720]

Throwing a fit? I wrote 1 snarky, highly comedic response to his response. If you're gonna be cocky, you better be sure you have no flaws. Even if you are flawless you don't act cocky because someone is better than you. His MCAT is below avg at the schools he boasts he got into, and he is URM. I am not politically correct, and never will be. I call things as I see them. URM is a boost, and if he's going to act so tactless, I'm calling him out on it.

I think the thing is, plenty of other people didn't find this cocky or boasting.

How is this being tactless? You were offended by his post?

 

[sourdoughllama]

I think the thing is, plenty of other people didn't find this cocky or boasting.

How is this being tactless? You were offended by his post?

Well, plenty of others did. You can have your opinion, I will have mine.
I'm certainly not offended, no. He wasn't directing it toward anyone, so that would make no sense. It is, however, tactless to boast about your accomplishments when you have portions of your application that can easily be picked out as flawed.

 

[Finches]

Currently studying for Step 1; this is my workup for this thread:


Sx: Prolonged arguing on the internet, on any topic.

Etiology 1: Delusional belief that someone else's opinion or action can be changed using a heated internet post.
Etiology 2: Incessant need to make an online community see your point and agree with it, no exceptions.

Dx: Idiocy

Tx: Log off, go read a book.

 

[sourdoughllama]

Currently studying for Step 1; this is my workup for this thread:


Sx: Prolonged arguing on the internet, on any topic.

Etiology 1: Delusional belief that someone else's opinion or action can be changed using a heated internet post.
Etiology 2: Incessant need to make an online community see your point and agree with it, no exceptions.

Dx: Idiocy

Tx: Log off, go read a book.

Internet cliche #4: single, high-horse post to show that you're more mature after wasting time reading through the said idiocy. Ain't nobody got time for this

 

[Finches]

Internet cliche #4: single, high-horse post to show that you're more mature after wasting time to reading through the said idiocy. Ain't nobody got time for this

Nah, I think you have time for this.

 

[baconshrimps]

Internet cliche #4: single, high-horse post to show that you're more mature after wasting time to reading through the said idiocy. Ain't nobody got time for this

 

[hubriz]

You sound like a major tool calling others envious when clearly we are plenty happy with our application cycles. And no, if you can read past single words, his intentions are plenty clear. Either way, you guys can go celebrate his success and the rest of us won't.

*sourdoughlama turns around to see only baconshrimps standing behind him

...crickets

 

[baconshrimps]

*sourdoughlama turns around to see only baconshrimps standing behind him

...crickets

This is like having the god damn KGB behind you though. So we all good. Seriously why am I being dragged back into this, I left. It was quiet in here. I assumed the thread re-railed. Jesus.

 

[487806]

Catchy tune

 

[Lucca]

I just wanted to speak my piece. When I talk about my accomplishments I do it to show that I made it. That I was successful. That despite the odds against me I was able to overcome these obstacles and earn success. I do it to inspire and motivate and encourage others that have been told for years that they are not good enough.

Listen, I grew up poor, I was homeless, I grew up in a single parent household, I saw death, I saw despair. I went to college. Bro I couldn't even do fractions. I wasn't thinking about Harvard, I was just trying to make it. I just thinking about having food on the table. Real talk. When I got a little better in school, I was the only black kid in my class. I couldn't even share my success without someone pulling the race card. Bro, why can't I just be a good student? Imagine being surrounded by all these people that are intimidated by your success and want to take it away from you just because of your color. I had people mentor me and guide me on my path, so now that I made it it is my job to tell pay it forward and tell people my story. I got to Harvard without a father. I got to Hopkins with family members on drugs. I got to Columbia being homeless and washing up in cold water for 6 months of the year because we couldn't afford the gas bill. I got 17 interviews despite the struggle. Bro, you can be successful. You can get the American dream. Don't worry about people saying its too hard. Don't worry about people saying URMs don't deserve it. You got this bro and its my duty to help you.

This is what we do in the underrepresented forum. We have so many acceptances!!!! and we support each other because we already know everyone on that forum struggled and the support from people on the forum means a lot.

Most of us shy away from the main forum because people just don't understand. He's bragging. He's a URM, He's Black, He didn't work hard. You don't even know me bro? How can you say that? Listen, if I dont tell my story. That poor discouraged student in his freshman year won't make it. Its my job.

I don't give a mother**** about being better than someone. Dude. My live revolved around actually SURVIVING on a day by day basis. You worrying about organic chem. I am worrying about the guy that got shot in front of my house yesterday and whether we will be homeless next month. I don't have time to worry about someone else or to be cocky.

You people that jump directly to accusing me of being cocky. Damn, congratulate me on my success as I would yours. Keep it moving. Its so much hate and animosity. Just stop it. Real talk.

As for tiers, its much more complicated for a URM. Outside of PR and the HBCUs most URMs are concentrated at the top. The top 20 schools tend to have the most support for URMs and the most numbers and support. The have the endowments and financial aid to support us in our studies, recruit us to second look etc. Tiers actually DO matter for URM students. The top tiers recruit URMs heavily and its known in our community, which again is often misinterpreted. When I say I got into Harvard, Yale etc. The URMs already know this is a school that is tolerant of diverse experiences and this is a school that they can get into and a school they can thrive at. Let me repeat that. When I say I got into Harvard, Yale etc. The URMs already know this is a school that is tolerant of diverse experiences and this is a school that they can get into and a school they can thrive at because outside of the top 20-40 schools the support for URMs (excluding PR and HBCU's really is not there). This stuff is soooo much more complicated the stuff you guys make it out to be.

Some of the smartest people in the country if not the world on on this forum. Bottom line, we're all on the same team. Please try to understand where I am coming from if you haven't already.

I'd just like to say that I lurked through a lot of your posts before I joined SDN and you've been an inspiration to me and other young URMs I know. My life growing up was not nearly as hard as yours but I was poor for about half of it and I remember the crime, the drugs, and the struggle pretty well even though I'm pretty well-off today. Congrats on your cycle. Mostly I just wanted to let the people on this forum know that it does mean a lot to a URM ugrad to see another URM succeed. It's just a pride thing because you don't see it very often. Yah, Espada is Black and I'm Latino but it still means a lot.

When I got into a good college on scholarship my neighborhood was so proud of me. All the kids came up to me, as young as 5th grade, asking me for tips on how to get into college and what careers to think about. That meant so much to me, especially when so many adults in my community are immigrants with no idea as to how the american higher education system works IN SPITE of some of them being highly educated people who earned their degrees in other countries.

Let's just try to keep the hate down from now on and not let any comments that might spark "unfairness" or "inequality" rustle our jimmies.

Also, @Espadaleader Gin's Shinso is a pretty good Phallis so that guy might have been spot on with the PenisLeader.

 

[rain4venus]

I didn't know anything at all about espadaleader (didn't know he was URM and didn't know anything about his stats) and I definitely thought it was a humblebrag, but I think maybe in a different way from the others.
To me, it came off very much as "since everyone loves me so much, I have to worry about what tier each school is in - otherwise I might end up at a school that is beneath me"

 

[Reckoner]

This thread killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

 

[hubriz]

RIP

 

[nOchemallday]

@Espadaleader
I'm having a difficult time gauging the credibility of your struggles and perhaps it's only because of the tone I've gathered from your posts, but something doesn't add up (in my mind). Stories of hardship told in such a manner are often only told by those who "embelish" their hardships.

I'll preface my chief concern with an external example to provide what I mean. In Remember the Titans, when Rev gets hurt and Sunshine has to go in for him Coach Boone uses the following to inspire hom to succeed: "When I was fifteen years old I lost my mother and my father in the same month Ronnie, same month. 12 brothers and sisters I was the youngest one of them, now I wasn't ready either, but they needed me. Your team needs you tonight." Immediately following the pep talk Assistant Coach Doc questions "you had 12 brothers and sisters?" Boone responds: "8." Doc: "You're right, 12 sounds better."

I'm not questioning the difficulties you've experienced, merely the extent to which you endured them and the extent to which you embelished them to garner additional acceptances irrespective of your URM status. Thus questioning your credibility as a strong applicant with a great app cycle without playing the race card. *Insert SpinachDip thread about falsification of experiences*

Moreover, I am questioning the degree to which you're post is another humblebrag about how difficult your life was and your ability to succeed in spite of it particularly about its relavence to the tiering system of medical schools.

Perhaps my understanding of the timeline is misconstrued, but you're worried about where your next meal is going to come from, yet still have the time to post on SDN throughout the day? (in this thread alone every few hours from 11AM to 11PM in 1 day) Especially because of your homelessness and lack of money to pay for food/gas I would think a part time job might be a better investment than SDN.

In the same sentence - homeless and gas bill?

I got to Columbia being homeless and washing up in cold water for 6 months of the year because we couldn't afford the gas bill.

Don't have time to worry about other people but are worrying about guy who was shot? And are you really worried about that guy? In my neighborhood the only person you look out for is yourself.

I am worrying about the guy that got shot in front of my house yesterday and whether we will be homeless next month. I don't have time to worry about someone else

You were worried about which biochem to take; let's not be so hasty to assume of others when we wish for others not to assume of us.

You worrying about organic chem.

And now to open the whole socioeconomic status versus minority can of worms:

So URMs need more financial aid/support and an understanding of the "tier system" than any other non-URM applicant who has no financial assistance? -You either play the race card or you don't; I'll state it explicitly: you either get the "benefits" of being a URM or the right to say you don't need them, not both.

The top 20 schools tend to have the most support for URMs and the most numbers and support. The have the endowments and financial aid to support us in our studies, recruit us to second look etc.

Rather, let's observe that only the top tier schools are accepting of diverse backgrounds?!?! Certainly I'm misreading this with how many medial schools have missions that endorse non-traditional applicants, primary care, and underserved communities. I can understand a discrepancy of tolerance, but specifically of all middle/low-tiered schools against "diverse" experience; I'm skeptic.

When I say I got into Harvard, Yale etc. The URMs already know this is a school that is tolerant of diverse experiences and this is a school that they can get into and a school they can thrive at.

IMHO tiering is:
a) obscure; and
b) doesn't matter. Med school is med school. Doesn't matter where you go as long as it gets you your two letters (M.D. or D.O.)
We are at least in agreement insofar as

At any medical school you will be a great doctor.

Residency on the other hand...to my understanding is already quite clear cut (and does matter).

 

[Espadaleader]

@Espadaleader
I'm having a difficult time gauging the credibility of your struggles and perhaps it's only because of the tone I've gathered from your posts, but something doesn't add up (in my mind). Stories of hardship told in such a manner are often only told by those who "embelish" their hardships.

I'll preface my chief concern with an external example to provide what I mean. In Remember the Titans, when Rev gets hurt and Sunshine has to go in for him Coach Boone uses the following to inspire hom to succeed: "When I was fifteen years old I lost my mother and my father in the same month Ronnie, same month. 12 brothers and sisters I was the youngest one of them, now I wasn't ready either, but they needed me. Your team needs you tonight." Immediately following the pep talk Assistant Coach Doc questions "you had 12 brothers and sisters?" Boone responds: "8." Doc: "You're right, 12 sounds better."

I'm not questioning the difficulties you've experienced, merely the extent to which you endured them and the extent to which you embelished them to garner additional acceptances irrespective of your URM status. Thus questioning your credibility as a strong applicant with a great app cycle without playing the race card. *Insert SpinachDip thread about falsification of experiences*

Moreover, I am questioning the degree to which you're post is another humblebrag about how difficult your life was and your ability to succeed in spite of it particularly about its relavence to the tiering system of medical schools.

Perhaps my understanding of the timeline is misconstrued, but you're worried about where your next meal is going to come from, yet still have the time to post on SDN throughout the day? (in this thread alone every few hours from 11AM to 11PM in 1 day) Especially because of your homelessness and lack of money to pay for food/gas I would think a part time job might be a better investment than SDN.

In the same sentence - homeless and gas bill?

Don't have time to worry about other people but are worrying about guy who was shot? And are you really worried about that guy? In my neighborhood the only person you look out for is yourself.

You were worried about which biochem to take; let's not be so hasty to assume of others when we wish for others not to assume of us.


And now to open the whole socioeconomic status versus minority can of worms:

So URMs need more financial aid/support and an understanding of the "tier system" than any other non-URM applicant who has no financial assistance? -You either play the race card or you don't; I'll state it explicitly: you either get the "benefits" of being a URM or the right to say you don't need them, not both.

Rather, let's observe that only the top tier schools are accepting of diverse backgrounds?!?! Certainly I'm misreading this with how many medial schools have missions that endorse non-traditional applicants, primary care, and underserved communities. I can understand a discrepancy of tolerance, but specifically of all middle/low-tiered schools against "diverse" experience; I'm skeptic.



IMHO tiering is:
a) obscure; and
b) doesn't matter. Med school is med school. Doesn't matter where you go as long as it gets you your two letters (M.D. or D.O.)
We are at least in agreement insofar as

Residency on the other hand...to my understanding is already quite clear cut (and does matter).

The only reason I was so candid is because its so hard to convey what I am trying to talk about. I don't have to tell most people this. The people on the underrepresented page already know this. It goes without saying. Of course I am not homeless now and as of last year I am no longer living in their neighborhood but my family still lives there and those are the experiences I had mostly from the age of 9 through undergrad although I never had contact with my father. If I wasn't always being attacked I wouldn't have even gone that far.

I am not even going to acknowledge most of your comments. They're disgusting. You guys are saying that I only got in because of URM status and that I am embellishing my story. Let me tell you something buddy. My story ain't special. I am doing what so many poor people and URMs could have done and WILL DO. I am just a kid from the block who made it. If you think I am walking around bragging about my story you are mistaken. This is what happened and I was fortunate and blessed to have made it. So many people had the potential to be here... So many people have my story. This isn't bragging this is life.

Anyway, let me clarify. Tiering matters more to poor or disadvantaged student regardless of race and URM students regardless of income (Top tier schools using USNWR and NIH Top 40) Also, top tier schools are the the primary schools that can accommodate poor students regardless of race and URMs. Why? because they have more resources. They have the funds to do elaborate pipeline programs and community outreach, they have the funds to participate in programs like MedPrep, SMDEP, Leadership Alliance etc. They also have the funds to accommodate students in the admissions process (waiving deposits and fees, revisit assistance etc.). Outside of the top tier these resources are not there so schools do not have the flexibility. Why does this matter? Because students gravitate to where the resources are. Poor and URM students are heavily recruited and accommodated by these schools and the top tier schools offer the best financial aid packages. Schools like Duke and Harvard, well most schools in the top 20 will give a poor student regardless of race anywhere from a 50% to 75% scholarship put toward the COA. This makes going to Harvard cheaper than going to the "state school" for some/its similar to how Harvard and other ivies waive COA for poor students in undergrad. So in a nutshell, the ivies have numbers of blacks approaching their representation in the population and a good group of poor and disadvantaged students. Top tiers schools matter to poor students and minorities because 1.) they can afford to recruit and develop candidates. 2.) they retain and admit the candidates they developed.

See, let me tell you something. What matters to me the most is how comfortable the school is. How much I fit into the school. How much support I have. Guess what? These schools tend to be top tiers. Look at a school like Columbia. Dude, they start recruiting poor students and URMs from HIGH SCHOOL. They get students in SMDEP in undergrad and minority center research programs. Look at the recruitment schedule!!!! Not every school can do this. It takes a lot of money so only the top tiers can afford it mostly. We apply to the ivy league schools because they honestly give a damn about our struggle and actually put the time and effort to recruit poor students and URMs. That's what important and that is the perspective you were missing.

http://ps.columbia.edu/education/student-life/office-diversity

Schools like Sinai, Pitt, most of the ivies, Hopkins etc. these schools really really support poor and disadvantaged students. Like to the point it gets personal. THey will tell you to call their personal cell phone or invite you to their homes or personally pick you up from second look or pay for your second look because they believe in you. Who are you to say tiering doesn't matter went you don't even understand the struggle. Schools like Harvard and Pitt were some of the first schools to have diversity offices (in the 60s) and for decades they have been at the very least trying to help disadvantaged and URM students. Its not the same everywhere.


Columbia
Recruitment Schedule
Recruitment Events as of July 2013

Recruitment Event Date Location
Tuskegee University September 19, 2013 Tuskegee, AL
AAMC Minority Student Medical Career Awareness Workshops and Recruitment Fair November 2, 2013 Philadelphia, PA
Minority Association of Pre-Health Students, Lehman College November 6, 2013 Bronx, NY
University 0f Vermont October 4, 2013 Burlington, VT
Choctaw Nation’s Ivy League & Friends Student Recruitment Day November 9, 2013 Durant, OK
Annual Biomedical Research Conference for Minority Students November 13, 2013-November 16, 2013 Nashville, TN
Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Puerto Rico October 8, 2013 Ponce, Puerto Rico
Universidad Puerto Rico-Ponce October 8, 2013 Ponce, Puerto Rico
University of Puerto Rico, Rio Piedras October 9, 2013 San Juan, Puerto Rico
Interamerican University October 10, 2013 Cupey, Puerto Rico
Princeton University December 3, 2013 Princeton, NJ
Summer Medical and Dental Education Program (SMDEP) Recruitment Fair December 4, 2013 Atlanta, GA
University of Nevada Las Vegas December 4, 2013 and December 6, 2013 Las Vegas, NV
Nevada State College December 5, 2013 Henderson, NV
Sponsors for Educational Opportunity College Scholars Career Fair January 7, 2014 New York, NY
OppNet Prep's Second Annual Enrichment Fair January 11, 2014 New York, NY
Region IX SNMA/MAPS Regional Conference and Recruitment Fair January 25, 2014 New York, NY
SUMMA Pre-Health Recruitment Fair February 8, 2014 Stanford, CA
Northeast Diversity Collaborative at Boston University February 22, 2014 Boston, MA
The 16th Annual American Medical Student Association (AMSA) Pre-Health Fair March 8, 2014 New Orleans, LA
University of Texas at Arlington March 25, 2014 Arlington, TX
Southern Methodist University March 25, 2014 Dallas, TX
University of Dallas March 25, 2014 Irving, TX
Texas Christian University March 26, 2014 Fort Worth
University of North Texas March 26, 2014 Dallas, TX
University of Texas at Dallas March 27, 2014 Denton, TX
National Hispanic Medical Association Recruitment Fair March 29, 2014 Washington, DC
City College of New York Medical & Dental School Fair 2014 April 5, 2014 New York, NY
Student National Medical Association (SNMA) Recruitment Fair April 18, 2014 and April 19, 2014 Washington, DC
University of Puerto Rico, Rio Piedras April 7, 2014 San Juan, PR
Universidad Metropolitana Sciences & Math Program April 7, 2014 Puerto Rico
Interamerican University, Cupey April 8, 2014 Puerto Rico
Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Puerto Rico April 9, 2014 Ponce, Puerto Rico
Universidad of Puerto Rico, Ponce April 9, 2014 Ponce, Puerto Rico
Morehouse College/Spelman College/Clark Atlanta University Health Professions Recruitment Fair April 8, 2014 Atlanta, GA
Recruitment Fair April 26, 2014 San Diego, CA
9th Annual LMSA Conference April 26, 2014 Houston, TX

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

Doesn't really matter. You know what they call the kid who graduated any medical school at the bottom of the bottom of the class? They call him Doctor.

USMLE Steps 1,2, and Grades are what matter.

 

[KingCaesar]

The only reason I was so candid is because its so hard to convey what I am trying to talk about. I don't have to tell most people this. The people on the underrepresented page already know this. It goes without saying. Of course I am not homeless now and as of last year I am no longer living in their neighborhood but my family still lives there and those are the experiences I had mostly from the age of 9 through undergrad although I never had contact with my father. If I wasn't always being attacked I wouldn't have even gone that far.

I am not even going to acknowledge most of your comments. They're disgusting. You guys are saying that I only got in because of URM status and that I am embellishing my story. Let me tell you something buddy. My story ain't special. I am doing what so many poor people and URMs could have done and WILL DO. I am just a kid from the block who made it. If you think I am walking around bragging about my story you are mistaken. This is what happened and I was fortunate and blessed to have made it. So many people had the potential to be here... So many people have my story. This isn't bragging this is life.

Anyway, let me clarify. Tiering matters more to poor or disadvantaged student regardless of race and URM students regardless of income (Top tier schools using USNWR and NIH Top 40) Also, top tier schools are the the primary schools that can accommodate poor students regardless of race and URMs. Why? because they have more resources. They have the funds to do elaborate pipeline programs and community outreach, they have the funds to participate in programs like MedPrep, SMDEP, Leadership Alliance etc. They also have the funds to accommodate students in the admissions process (waiving deposits and fees, revisit assistance etc.). Outside of the top tier these resources are not there so schools do not have the flexibility. Why does this matter? Because students gravitate to where the resources are. Poor and URM students are heavily recruited and accommodated by these schools and the top tier schools offer the best financial aid packages. Schools like Duke and Harvard, well most schools in the top 20 will give a poor student regardless of race anywhere from a 50% to 75% scholarship put toward the COA. This makes going to Harvard cheaper than going to the "state school" for some/its similar to how Harvard and other ivies waive COA for poor students in undergrad. So in a nutshell, the ivies have numbers of blacks approaching their representation in the population and a good group of poor and disadvantaged students. Top tiers schools matter to poor students and minorities because 1.) they can afford to recruit and develop candidates. 2.) they retain and admit the candidates they developed.

See, let me tell you something. What matters to me the most is how comfortable the school is. How much I fit into the school. How much support I have. Guess what? These schools tend to be top tiers. Look at a school like Columbia. Dude, they start recruiting poor students and URMs from HIGH SCHOOL. They get students in SMDEP in undergrad and minority center research programs. Look at the recruitment schedule!!!! Not every school can do this. It takes a lot of money so only the top tiers can afford it mostly. We apply to the ivy league schools because they honestly give a damn about our struggle and actually put the time and effort to recruit poor students and URMs. That's what important and that is the perspective you were missing.

http://ps.columbia.edu/education/student-life/office-diversity

Schools like Sinai, Pitt, most of the ivies, Hopkins etc. these schools really really support poor and disadvantaged students. Like to the point it gets personal. THey will tell you to call their personal cell phone or invite you to their homes or personally pick you up from second look or pay for your second look because they believe in you. Who are you to say tiering doesn't matter went you don't even understand the struggle. Schools like Harvard and Pitt were some of the first schools to have diversity offices (in the 60s) and for decades they have been at the very least trying to help disadvantaged and URM students. Its not the same everywhere.


Columbia
Recruitment Schedule
Recruitment Events as of July 2013

Recruitment Event Date Location
Tuskegee University September 19, 2013 Tuskegee, AL
AAMC Minority Student Medical Career Awareness Workshops and Recruitment Fair November 2, 2013 Philadelphia, PA
Minority Association of Pre-Health Students, Lehman College November 6, 2013 Bronx, NY
University 0f Vermont October 4, 2013 Burlington, VT
Choctaw Nation’s Ivy League & Friends Student Recruitment Day November 9, 2013 Durant, OK
Annual Biomedical Research Conference for Minority Students November 13, 2013-November 16, 2013 Nashville, TN
Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Puerto Rico October 8, 2013 Ponce, Puerto Rico
Universidad Puerto Rico-Ponce October 8, 2013 Ponce, Puerto Rico
University of Puerto Rico, Rio Piedras October 9, 2013 San Juan, Puerto Rico
Interamerican University October 10, 2013 Cupey, Puerto Rico
Princeton University December 3, 2013 Princeton, NJ
Summer Medical and Dental Education Program (SMDEP) Recruitment Fair December 4, 2013 Atlanta, GA
University of Nevada Las Vegas December 4, 2013 and December 6, 2013 Las Vegas, NV
Nevada State College December 5, 2013 Henderson, NV
Sponsors for Educational Opportunity College Scholars Career Fair January 7, 2014 New York, NY
OppNet Prep's Second Annual Enrichment Fair January 11, 2014 New York, NY
Region IX SNMA/MAPS Regional Conference and Recruitment Fair January 25, 2014 New York, NY
SUMMA Pre-Health Recruitment Fair February 8, 2014 Stanford, CA
Northeast Diversity Collaborative at Boston University February 22, 2014 Boston, MA
The 16th Annual American Medical Student Association (AMSA) Pre-Health Fair March 8, 2014 New Orleans, LA
University of Texas at Arlington March 25, 2014 Arlington, TX
Southern Methodist University March 25, 2014 Dallas, TX
University of Dallas March 25, 2014 Irving, TX
Texas Christian University March 26, 2014 Fort Worth
University of North Texas March 26, 2014 Dallas, TX
University of Texas at Dallas March 27, 2014 Denton, TX
National Hispanic Medical Association Recruitment Fair March 29, 2014 Washington, DC
City College of New York Medical & Dental School Fair 2014 April 5, 2014 New York, NY
Student National Medical Association (SNMA) Recruitment Fair April 18, 2014 and April 19, 2014 Washington, DC
University of Puerto Rico, Rio Piedras April 7, 2014 San Juan, PR
Universidad Metropolitana Sciences & Math Program April 7, 2014 Puerto Rico
Interamerican University, Cupey April 8, 2014 Puerto Rico
Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Puerto Rico April 9, 2014 Ponce, Puerto Rico
Universidad of Puerto Rico, Ponce April 9, 2014 Ponce, Puerto Rico
Morehouse College/Spelman College/Clark Atlanta University Health Professions Recruitment Fair April 8, 2014 Atlanta, GA
Recruitment Fair April 26, 2014 San Diego, CA
9th Annual LMSA Conference April 26, 2014 Houston, TX

This is an interesting post, but I think any allopathic medical schools in the US is in a position to help a student secure the full cost of attendance, be it through loans, grants, stafford, pell, perkins, etc. When you graduate, you're obviously going to be poised well to pay any money you owe back, so I think yours is more of a concern for "I don't want to owe a bunch of money" than "These schools can help me, but others can't." It doesn't matter where you go to medical school. Even the most competitive fellowship programs eventually take students who graduated from low tier schools like Virginia Commonwealth Univ. and Meharry. Wherever you go, you'll be able to pay for medical school, so this seems almost like a false dilemma centered around finances, not prestige.

 

[Espadaleader]

Doesn't really matter. You know what they call the kid who graduated any medical school at the bottom of the bottom of the class? They call him Doctor.

USMLE Steps 1,2, and Grades are what matter.

This is true but a poor white kid from Alabama or a poor black kid from Detroit might need more assistance in terms of academic and social support to actually graduate. Thus, schools with more resources tend to be a the very least a good fit because they have the resources and most importantly dedicate the time to ensure that these students graduate. For example, I applied to Columbia because I saw knew people there, I knew people that were in the pipeline programs and SMDEP and I knew if I went there I would be supported and I would graduate.

The kid at the bottom of the class is doctor. Yes, that's true. However, every school doesn't have the resources to ensure that every student graduates with their full potential.

This is an interesting post, but I think any allopathic medical schools in the US is in a position to help a student secure the full cost of attendance, be it through loans, grants, stafford, pell, perkins, etc. When you graduate, you're obviously going to be poised well to pay any money you owe back, so I think yours is more of a concern for "I don't want to owe a bunch of money" than "These schools can help me, but others can't." It doesn't matter where you go to medical school. Even the most competitive fellowship programs eventually take students who graduated from low tier schools like Virginia Commonwealth Univ. and Meharry. Wherever you go, you'll be able to pay for medical school, so this seems almost like a false dilemma centered around finances, not prestige.

Thanks for your replies. But respectfully disagree. Top tier schools have the resources, administration, and people that other schools don't that are critical to disadvantaged and URM students.. You're right, any school can throw money but only a select few have a culture of disadvantaged and URM support. You must not have read all of my post. I re-posted the relevant parts and also gave an example. Look at Harvard. They have pipeline programs from high school. Many schools other than Harvard have this, but most of them are concentrated at the top. Every medical school does not offer these same opportunities.

http://www.mfdp.med.harvard.edu/k12/programs/index.html


See, let me tell you something. What matters to me the most is how comfortable the school is. How much I fit into the school. How much support I have. Guess what? These schools tend to be top tiers. Look at a school like Columbia. Dude, they start recruiting poor students and URMs from HIGH SCHOOL. They get students in SMDEP in undergrad and minority center research programs. Look at the recruitment schedule!!!! Not every school can do this. It takes a lot of money so only the top tiers can afford it mostly. We apply to the ivy league schools because they honestly give a damn about our struggle and actually put the time and effort to recruit poor students and URMs. That's what important and that is the perspective you were missing.

http://ps.columbia.edu/education/student-life/office-diversity

Schools like Sinai, Pitt, most of the ivies, Hopkins etc. these schools really really support poor and disadvantaged students. Like to the point it gets personal. THey will tell you to call their personal cell phone or invite you to their homes or personally pick you up from second look or pay for your second look because they believe in you. Who are you to say tiering doesn't matter went you don't even understand the struggle. Schools like Harvard and Pitt were some of the first schools to have diversity offices (in the 60s) and for decades they have been at the very least trying to help disadvantaged and URM students. Its not the same everywhere.

Columbia
Recruitment Schedule
Recruitment Events as of July 2013

Recruitment Event Date Location
Tuskegee University September 19, 2013 Tuskegee, AL
AAMC Minority Student Medical Career Awareness Workshops and Recruitment Fair November 2, 2013 Philadelphia, PA
Minority Association of Pre-Health Students, Lehman College November 6, 2013 Bronx, NY
University 0f Vermont October 4, 2013 Burlington, VT
Choctaw Nation’s Ivy League & Friends Student Recruitment Day November 9, 2013 Durant, OK
Annual Biomedical Research Conference for Minority Students November 13, 2013-November 16, 2013 Nashville, TN
Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Puerto Rico October 8, 2013 Ponce, Puerto Rico
Universidad Puerto Rico-Ponce October 8, 2013 Ponce, Puerto Rico
University of Puerto Rico, Rio Piedras October 9, 2013 San Juan, Puerto Rico
Interamerican University October 10, 2013 Cupey, Puerto Rico
Princeton University December 3, 2013 Princeton, NJ
Summer Medical and Dental Education Program (SMDEP) Recruitment Fair December 4, 2013 Atlanta, GA
University of Nevada Las Vegas December 4, 2013 and December 6, 2013 Las Vegas, NV
Nevada State College December 5, 2013 Henderson, NV
Sponsors for Educational Opportunity College Scholars Career Fair January 7, 2014 New York, NY
OppNet Prep's Second Annual Enrichment Fair January 11, 2014 New York, NY
Region IX SNMA/MAPS Regional Conference and Recruitment Fair January 25, 2014 New York, NY
SUMMA Pre-Health Recruitment Fair February 8, 2014 Stanford, CA
Northeast Diversity Collaborative at Boston University February 22, 2014 Boston, MA
The 16th Annual American Medical Student Association (AMSA) Pre-Health Fair March 8, 2014 New Orleans, LA
University of Texas at Arlington March 25, 2014 Arlington, TX
Southern Methodist University March 25, 2014 Dallas, TX
University of Dallas March 25, 2014 Irving, TX
Texas Christian University March 26, 2014 Fort Worth
University of North Texas March 26, 2014 Dallas, TX
University of Texas at Dallas March 27, 2014 Denton, TX
National Hispanic Medical Association Recruitment Fair March 29, 2014 Washington, DC
City College of New York Medical & Dental School Fair 2014 April 5, 2014 New York, NY
Student National Medical Association (SNMA) Recruitment Fair April 18, 2014 and April 19, 2014 Washington, DC
University of Puerto Rico, Rio Piedras April 7, 2014 San Juan, PR
Universidad Metropolitana Sciences & Math Program April 7, 2014 Puerto Rico
Interamerican University, Cupey April 8, 2014 Puerto Rico
Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Puerto Rico April 9, 2014 Ponce, Puerto Rico
Universidad of Puerto Rico, Ponce April 9, 2014 Ponce, Puerto Rico
Morehouse College/Spelman College/Clark Atlanta University Health Professions Recruitment Fair April 8, 2014 Atlanta, GA
Recruitment Fair April 26, 2014 San Diego, CA
9th Annual LMSA Conference April 26, 2014 Houston, TX

 

[Espadaleader]

Its not a prestige thing. Like that's so lame and LOL.

 

[KingCaesar]

No I read everything lol. I'm a 'poor white kid' - I went to a state school and even though I didn't have an iPad or a new car or BeatsbyDre like alot of my classmates and friends did, even though I wasn't on meal plan and I ate ramen and went to club meetings for free food as often as I could, even though I shared a room with someone else (not an apartment, a room) after freshman year while everyone else got their own space, I didn't feel there was a lack of support for the financially disadvantaged and I didn't feel like I didn't fit in. Did you visit each of those schools before you applied? How do you know you wouldn't be comfortable at a state school? Did you visit those as well? You might be selling yourself short - maybe there was something else out there that you would have liked even better than Harvard Yale Columbia? I don't mean to get on your case or anything like that, but it just really seems like the argument you are trying to make is 'meh' at best. It's not very convincing, but congrats on your acceptances anyway!

 

[hubriz]

I

@Espadaleader
I'm having a difficult time gauging the credibility of your struggles and perhaps it's only because of the tone I've gathered from your posts, but something doesn't add up (in my mind). Stories of hardship told in such a manner are often only told by those who "embelish" their hardships.

I'll preface my chief concern with an external example to provide what I mean. In Remember the Titans, when Rev gets hurt and Sunshine has to go in for him Coach Boone uses the following to inspire hom to succeed: "When I was fifteen years old I lost my mother and my father in the same month Ronnie, same month. 12 brothers and sisters I was the youngest one of them, now I wasn't ready either, but they needed me. Your team needs you tonight." Immediately following the pep talk Assistant Coach Doc questions "you had 12 brothers and sisters?" Boone responds: "8." Doc: "You're right, 12 sounds better."

I'm not questioning the difficulties you've experienced, merely the extent to which you endured them and the extent to which you embelished them to garner additional acceptances irrespective of your URM status. Thus questioning your credibility as a strong applicant with a great app cycle without playing the race card. *Insert SpinachDip thread about falsification of experiences*

Moreover, I am questioning the degree to which you're post is another humblebrag about how difficult your life was and your ability to succeed in spite of it particularly about its relavence to the tiering system of medical schools.

Perhaps my understanding of the timeline is misconstrued, but you're worried about where your next meal is going to come from, yet still have the time to post on SDN throughout the day? (in this thread alone every few hours from 11AM to 11PM in 1 day) Especially because of your homelessness and lack of money to pay for food/gas I would think a part time job might be a better investment than SDN.

In the same sentence - homeless and gas bill?

Don't have time to worry about other people but are worrying about guy who was shot? And are you really worried about that guy? In my neighborhood the only person you look out for is yourself.

You were worried about which biochem to take; let's not be so hasty to assume of others when we wish for others not to assume of us.


And now to open the whole socioeconomic status versus minority can of worms:

So URMs need more financial aid/support and an understanding of the "tier system" than any other non-URM applicant who has no financial assistance? -You either play the race card or you don't; I'll state it explicitly: you either get the "benefits" of being a URM or the right to say you don't need them, not both.

Rather, let's observe that only the top tier schools are accepting of diverse backgrounds?!?! Certainly I'm misreading this with how many medial schools have missions that endorse non-traditional applicants, primary care, and underserved communities. I can understand a discrepancy of tolerance, but specifically of all middle/low-tiered schools against "diverse" experience; I'm skeptic.



IMHO tiering is:
a) obscure; and
b) doesn't matter. Med school is med school. Doesn't matter where you go as long as it gets you your two letters (M.D. or D.O.)
We are at least in agreement insofar as

Residency on the other hand...to my understanding is already quite clear cut (and does matter).

You are having a difficult time gauging the credibility of Espadaleaders struggles for at least two reasons:

1) you dont know what you are doing
2) you are not in a position to do so

And, of course, where one goes to medical school matters. It is not normal behavior to randomly select a medical school. With prestige comes rich history, awesome legacy and a promising future. One would be naive to think that top-tier schools offer no additional benefits like money, resources, innovative faculty and students, network, proximity to world-class physicians (shadowing, learning, letters), etc.

Your position is almost completely bogus, because you approached it entirely wrong. Next time you find yourself struggling to appreciate someone's success, don't revert to questioning their personal credibility,and certainly don't use speculation and faulty critical reasoning to convince yourself of what you want to be true. Be objective. As far as we know, Espadaleader and his story has been accepted by 17 medical schools, including the most pretigious in the country. Yet, you deny him the same courtesy and remain unconvinced about his credibility.

I'm very curious, of what do you think about your own credibility?

 

[hubriz]

No I read everything lol. I'm a 'poor white kid' - I went to a state school and even though I didn't have an iPad or a new car or BeatsbyDre like alot of my classmates and friends did, even though I wasn't on meal plan and I ate ramen and went to club meetings for free food as often as I could, even though I shared a room with someone else (not an apartment, a room) after freshman year while everyone else got their own space, I didn't feel there was a lack of support for the financially disadvantaged and I didn't feel like I didn't fit in. Did you visit each of those schools before you applied? How do you know you wouldn't be comfortable at a state school? Did you visit those as well? You might be selling yourself short - maybe there was something else out there that you would have liked even better than Harvard Yale Columbia? I don't mean to get on your case or anything like that, but it just really seems like the argument you are trying to make is 'meh' at best. It's not very convincing, but congrats on your acceptances anyway!

My brain hurts from trying to find one postive thing about this perspective. Oh- you congratulated him. That was nice. I feel better now.

 

[KingCaesar]

Mama always said people from Louisiana were rude, but I didnt believe her. (I guess Mama knows best after all.)

 

[hubriz]

Mama always said people from Louisiana were rude, but I didnt believe her. (I guess Mama knows best after all.)

Im not from Louisiana. The last 5 years I've lived in Massachusetts, DC, Afghanistan, DC again and now Louisiana. I'm a military officer and extend proper courtesies and all due respect.

 

[hubriz]

Mama always said people from Louisiana were rude, but I didnt believe her. (I guess Mama knows best after all.)

And why am I not surprised that you would concede to a stereotype so easily?

 

[No Limits]

Edit: Just realized he is banned

 

[WTFRichard]

@WolfofSDN
Le master trolle

@JediOchoa

 

[Espadaleader]

No I read everything lol. I'm a 'poor white kid' - I went to a state school and even though I didn't have an iPad or a new car or BeatsbyDre like alot of my classmates and friends did, even though I wasn't on meal plan and I ate ramen and went to club meetings for free food as often as I could, even though I shared a room with someone else (not an apartment, a room) after freshman year while everyone else got their own space, I didn't feel there was a lack of support for the financially disadvantaged and I didn't feel like I didn't fit in. Did you visit each of those schools before you applied? How do you know you wouldn't be comfortable at a state school? Did you visit those as well? You might be selling yourself short - maybe there was something else out there that you would have liked even better than Harvard Yale Columbia? I don't mean to get on your case or anything like that, but it just really seems like the argument you are trying to make is 'meh' at best. It's not very convincing, but congrats on your acceptances anyway!

Yes, I visited most of these programs through URM recruitment. Remember I showed you how many schools Columbia visited? These schools are very active and make there desire for diverse classes well know throughout the URM community.

I went to a state school and applied to all tiers of schools. Let me give you evidence to support my claim.

http://www.theleadershipalliance.org/Programs/ProgramsOverview/tabid/159/Default.aspx
http://www.theleadershipalliance.org/Members/Members/tabid/162/Default.aspx
http://www.brighamandwomens.org/Medical_Professionals/career/CFDD/OMC/STARS Program/default.aspx
http://ps.columbia.edu/education/st...e-and-post-baccalaureate-students/summer-publ
http://icahn.mssm.edu/about-us/diversity
http://www.medadmissions.pitt.edu/
http://medicine.yale.edu/education/omca/diversity/perspective.aspx
http://www.hms.harvard.edu/dcp/
http://www.neramedprep.org/
http://smdep.org/sites/

http://aspiringdocsdiaries.org/

*note both of the black male medical students here are at Harvard.


These are links to a few of the programs that recruit URM and disadvantaged students. These are the schools among others that recruit poor students and students of color. They tend to be concentrated on the East coast and most in the northeast. I am also not saying that these schools are the only schools that have these programs, I for one know my state school does a great job. However, These schools are at the forefront. Since many of these programs are URM focused, you may not have been aware of them. URM students are aware of them for the most part and we recongnize which schools have pipeline programs and which don't. Remember, its not about prestige its about support.

It even goes beyond medical school.

http://www.mfdp.med.harvard.edu/med_grad/vcp/
http://www.massgeneral.org/mao/
http://www.mfdp.med.harvard.edu/Catalyst/
http://icahn.mssm.edu/education/cen...career-development/visiting-electives-program

You just are not going to get this kind of support and mentorship from smaller programs with less resources. I want to go to schools where I will feel comfortable and these schools make that happen. You cannot possibly look at these robust programs and believe every medical school has the ability to emulate and provide the same opportunities.

 

[KingCaesar]

I stand by my previous comment.
If anything it sounds like a convenient facade to say "No really! I'm not pretentious!"
To each their own.

 

[Willy38]

As Jackie Moon once said... EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!