Can someone please help me explain to my parents why I shouldn't be applying to International med schools if I want to practice in the US

[drtribbiani]

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Hi guys. I'm applying to US MD schools this cycle and really want to keep my parents in the loop with everything because I love them, but sometimes it's a bit difficult to do that. They are suggesting that I apply to med schools outside the US this cycle as a backup in case I don't get in anywhere here. When I told them that I will not be doing that because it's a lot harder to match into a US residency with a foreign medical degree, their response was something along the lines of:

"But that's not what I'm talking about. What happens if every single med school you apply to rejects you? You need a medical degree first before you start worrying about residency"

When I said that I'd apply again next year if I didn't get in anywhere this cycle, they seemed shocked and out of words... I don't think they're too convinced of my arguments to them tbh. They also use some of my relatives who got their medical degrees in Asia but are now practicing in the US as examples of why they don't they there's any risk involved with being an IMG.

So, I turn to you guys. What hard facts, links, articles, etc. can I share with my parents that will convince them of the dangers of being an IMG and that it's better to get into a US med school after 2-3 years than attend a foreign medical school right away. @gonnif you seem to be good at presenting evidence, would you care to chime in?

 

[Moko]

All the data you need is available at: Main Residency Match Data and Reports - The Match, National Resident Matching Program

Highlights include:

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-IMGs.pdf

Page 5: Match Rates of International Medical Graduates

https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/NRMP-Results-and-Data-2019_04112019_final.pdf

Page 16: Number of Active Applicants and Percent Matched to PGY-1 Positions, 2015- 2019

Bottom line: get your medical education in the country you want to practice in. There's enough data and graphs on that site to distract any parent for a few years if need be 😉 .

 

[Means]

These are the "Big 4" schools with match rates from 67% to 46%
View attachment 277704

I will never understand how people are willing to gamble 4 years and $250k+ on these odds

 

[907914]

I will never understand how people are willing to gamble 4 years and $250k+ on these odds

Because “muh passions.”

Their passion wasn’t great enough for them to be academically successful, get the MCAT they needed, stop drinking long enough to avoid those couple of DUIs, or to get their parents off their back about looking down on DO...

but still, because “muh passions.”

 

[Moko]

I will never understand how people are willing to gamble 4 years and $250k+ on these odds

Desperation. Those schools have learned how to take advantage of it

 

[Goro]

Hi guys. I'm applying to US MD schools this cycle and really want to keep my parents in the loop with everything because I love them, but sometimes it's a bit difficult to do that. They are suggesting that I apply to med schools outside the US this cycle as a backup in case I don't get in anywhere here. When I told them that I will not be doing that because it's a lot harder to match into a US residency with a foreign medical degree, their response was something along the lines of:

"But that's not what I'm talking about. What happens if every single med school you apply to rejects you? You need a medical degree first before you start worrying about residency"

When I said that I'd apply again next year if I didn't get in anywhere this cycle, they seemed shocked and out of words... I don't think they're too convinced of my arguments to them tbh. They also use some of my relatives who got their medical degrees in Asia but are now practicing in the US as examples of why they don't they there's any risk involved with being an IMG.

So, I turn to you guys. What hard facts, links, articles, etc. can I share with my parents that will convince them of the dangers of being an IMG and that it's better to get into a US med school after 2-3 years than attend a foreign medical school right away. @gonnif you seem to be good at presenting evidence, would you care to chime in?

Ahhh, parents, doing their best out of love and ignorance to destroy your medical career forever.


Get them accounts on sdn and we can correct them of the errors of their ways

 

[DokterMom]

These are the "Big 4" schools with match rates from 67% to 46%
View attachment 277704

To paraphrase from @gonnif's table:

• 100% of the debt
• 50% of the chance for success

Your parents' viewpoint sounds so very reasonable. You can at least give them credit for that.

By way of explaining things, maybe try some elementary statistics:

• The average applicant to USMD schools has a ~65% chance of being accepted, and from there, about a 96% chance of graduating and 97% chance of matching -- so 65% x 96% x 97% = ~60% chance of application to residency success. Not so great odds, but the investment risk is in the ballpark of $500-1,000 and 1 extra year for a failed application season.
• An applicant who is qualified for USMD schools has a (let's be generous) ~95% chance of acceptance to a Carribbean medical school, and from there a 50-60% chance of graduating and a 50-60% chance of matching -- so 95% x 55% x 55% = ~29% chance of application to residency success. (If the match percentages cited above were shown as 'matriculants to matches' instead of 'residency applicants to matches', then the odds double to 95% x 55% = 52% -- so still not as good as USMD.) But here's where the real difference lies: The Investment risk for that Caribbean route is on the order of $200,000 and 4-5 years.

I do like @Goro's advice to get them an account here.

Edited to add:

• With USMD, the risk is almost all front-loaded in the form of an admissions decision. Either you get in and succeed or you don't. (But at least it doesn't cost you that much if you don't get accepted.)
• With foreign MD schools, the financial risk is up-front, but the success risk is back-loaded. You invest your time and money and effort and at the end of all that, maybe you get that residency and maybe you don't.

 

[DNAJB6]

Not to be disrespectful, but you're an adult now. Why do you need to explain or convince them of anything?

 

[907914]

Not to be disrespectful, but you're an adult now. Why do you need to explain or convince them of anything?

Some parents feel entitled to pick where their kids go to school if they are the ones paying. My words to those parents are this: you are paying for your child’s education, not for the name on their diploma.

 

[DNAJB6]

Some parents feel entitled to pick where their kids go to school if they are the ones paying. My words to those parents are this: you are paying for your child’s education, not for the name on their diploma.

I didn't realize that many parents pay for their children's medical education.

 

[907914]

I didn't realize that many parents pay for their children's medical education.

Around 15% of all medical students graduate debt free (and 15% of students are certainly NOT getting full ride scholarships...) at some schools, as many as 40-50% of students have full tuition and living expenses covered by their parents (tippy top schools)

 

[drtribbiani]

Thank you all so much for the replies, they were all super helpful. I'll try sharing with them this same info (or maybe even this post lmao) the next time I talk to them

Not to be disrespectful, but you're an adult now. Why do you need to explain or convince them of anything?

Well I don't NEED to but I want them to be a part of my medical journey. I was pretty distant from them during my adolescence and only during college did I realize the true importance of family. It is entirely my choice to keep them updated with everything. They are always cheering me on and giving me support and I think they deserve at least that. Their ignorance of this process is just a tiny hurdle (if that) and doesn't really affect me much in the grand scheme of things.

 

[calipremed5768]

With Caribbean schools there is so many other variables explaining no match rate. It’s not politically correct to say but some people lack the abilities to be a good test taker. Many people at Carib schools likely didn’t do well on MCAT and also struggle on STEP exams. Also some people at those schools stay to practice in carib

 

[imbesrs]

@Goro @gonnif could be a dumb question but what about schools like Sackler or UQ Ochsner that have rotations back in the US? I know carribean schools rotate in the US and stuff too, but is it just as difficult?