Can someone tell me: What really happens with our secondary app. fees?

[edharian]

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I don't know if this topic is being avoided or if there's just some unspoken understanding among applicants, but it's been bothering me a lot lately: what do schools do with our secondary app fees? Take George Washington U as an example. The secondary fee for GW is $125 and they get, according to their website, about 14,000 initial applicants. Of those, I would guess at least 10,000 complete the secondary since it's a no-screen (tell me if I'm way off). So, assuming those numbers, that's 1.25 million dollars!! I'm sure they have a large admissions department but that large? I mean, Vanderbilt only charges the secondary fee to applicants who receive interview invites – why? And if it's just a common understanding that schools make money from apps, why aren't more people angry about this ?!?

 

[edharian]

And on the same topic, I think if we pay a school $70 -$125, we deserve decent service. Take the call I made to Johns Hopkins today. I hadn't heard from them for more than a month following admission of my secondary. I know this isn't really unusual for JHU but I just wanted to make sure they had received everything. So, I first sent them an email – a week later, no response. So fine, I decided, I'll just give them a quick call. I got someone pretty quickly but they were rude almost right away. She made every effort to get me off the phone and even lectured me on being patient! I mean, come on, I paid you guys $80, I think I deserve a couple minutes of your time after a month of waiting!


Doesn't this make anyone else angry? I mean, I know you have to expect this going into the process and it's just kind of the way it is, but I think they cause a lot of unnecessary resentment among applicants.

 

[IlDestriero]

It pays for some of this for all the meetings and interviews.

 

[orion333]

I mean, come on, I paid you guys $80, I think I deserve a couple minutes of your time after a month of waiting! .

I agree that it is a total racket. I mean does it really take $100 worth of someones time to spend 5 minutes reading your app then hitting the auto-send rejection button? If so, I need that job.

Making only people who interview pay sounds like a better system, especially since it will keep people who aren't serious from taking up a highly-coveted interview slot. Same with making people write 3 to 5 essays in advance. I like the whole "write the essay while you're visiting" approach that some schools have.

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

the point of your app fee is to keep people who arent serious about applying, from applying.

 

[eablackwell]

Doesn't this make anyone else angry? I mean, I know you have to expect this going into the process and it's just kind of the way it is, but I think they cause a lot of unnecessary resentment among applicants.

The school I got accepted to charged about $30 for secondary and has the nicest admissions people answering any question you throw at them via phone. I called around Oct. 13 totally freaking out about what day acceptances would be sent (since some schools changed dates), and when I apologized for being so neurotic, the lady laughed and said they understand we're all nervous and excited.

The $100+ secondary fees I paid to several other schools turned out to be for much grouchier service (in my experiences at least). So I understand your position.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

It pays for some of this for all the meetings and interviews.

I was just gonna say it's all wasted on blow, but yours makes more sense.

 

[Lee Juses11]

It pays for some of this for all the meetings and interviews.

Wow! Love this!
how to deal with depression

 

[334961]

the point of your app fee is to keep people who arent serious about applying, from applying.

Theoretically yes, but practically, I don't think that's what happens.

I mean, does any of the following ring a bell?

- You should just apply, it's only xxx dollars and a miniscule amount compared to your student loan debt.
- The more schools you apply to, the more likely you'll get an interview/acceptance.
- If you don't apply to XXX, you might regret it later.
- et cetera.

I'm curious if there's historical data for average secondary fees over the past 30 years. I wouldn't be surprised if fees have been increasing rapidly because many pre-meds will pay anything... (or they are using waivers)

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Figure out how many people work in the admissions department. Plus the time of the admissions committee to interview people, review files, etc where they're not making any money by seeing patients.

Add up the secondary fees. Do the math. You'll see how it's not a racket.

 

[Hemichordate]

Anyone know the average salary of adcoms?

 

[boggvir]

Well...many of them are physicians, researchers who take time out of their day (thereby not performing other duties that make money away from the hospital/universities) to sit and interview and on other committees. And of course, there is also usually some full time staff as well.

It's not cheap.

 

[LizzyM]

Anyone know the average salary of adcoms?

Schools differ I'm sure but at my school the adcom members get no salary support ... we are volunteering our time and it does take time away from our usual responsibilites (for which we are paid). Much of the review work (other than interviewing) can be done at home or after hours. We are offered coffee, tea and bottled water at our meetings... maybe a cookie or a piece of fruit (no booze ) Once a year there is a thank you dinner for the ~100 adcom members and interviewers.

However, there are many other costs associated with admissions offices:

Wages and benefits for: Dean or Director, receptionist(s), other staff members who coordinate interviews, manage application files (scanning and uploading "updates" etc), handle business matters.

The cost of recruiting students also falls on the admissions office and this can include cost of traveling to and attending med school fairs and making visits to undergrad institutions, as well as the printed materials and promotional items the school gives away. The cost of developing and maintaining web sites for promotion and recruiting.

Space. Yes, even though the university owns the building, every "cost center" has to contribute to a general fund according to square footage. This covers utilities, security, housekeeping, etc.

Furnishings and electronics: obviously office furnishing, computer systems, phone, fax, photocopier, and upkeep on these items.

Costs associated with interview day including meals/snacks for interviewees.

Costs associated with second look including food, printing, swag (tee shirts, bags, etc).

Costs associated with criminal background checks.


I do suspect that some schools charge an arm & leg in the hope that only those who are very interested will apply but it doesn't seem to work for schools in good locations that some people consider "safeties".

 

[circulus vitios]

Pay for secondaries with a credit card then do a charge reversal.

 

[pdxjazz]

There is one MD state school that has to be the definition of "racket". They require a secondary fee ($70) before sending out the secondary. After I paid the fee, I received a notice they would not be sending me a secondary application because I did not have significant ties to their state. I thought that was really unethical since I had paid for that secondary.

 

[gravitywave]

as LizzyM mentioned, there are substantial costs associated with admissions, and to a certain extent the secondary fees of the rejected people go to subsidize the interview days and further processing that the other applicants get (how's that for rejection heartburn?? )

but i'm sure there are some schools for whom admissions is a profit center. and i really doubt that ratcheting up the secondary fee has any effect on application volume. by and large people are going to apply to the schools that interest them. the ones that are obviously trying to keep costs low, though, we do like them better 😀

 

[LizzyM]

Buy the MSAR. If you can avoid even 1 bad application decision, the book more than pays for itself.

 

[isuckatverbal]

Pay for secondaries with a credit card then do a charge reversal.

Brilliant!👍

 

[Catalystik]

Anyone know the average salary of adcoms?

My school's adcomm members do not get monetary compensation. Interviewers do get the same box lunch provided to interviewees, and a highly-coveted free parking pass. No coffee. No party. No booze.

 

[Lccjblu]

Aren't second-look weeks all expenses paid? at least that's what a med student said about the school I last interviewed at...

I'm sure they spend a ton of money providing accommodations and food for that weekend/day/event

 

[LizzyM]

My school's adcomm members do not get monetary compensation. Interviewers do get the same box lunch provided to interviewees, and a highly-coveted free parking pass. No coffee. No party. No booze.

No coffee.😱 We'd be hard pressed to work without it. 😉 On the other hand, we don't get box meals at our meetings... just one party/meal each year. Sounds like a wash.



As for the question about second look... it depends on the school & the economy. One school that used to be "all expense paid" now covers only a few meals & some items with the school logo and maybe a hotel room if a student host isn't available.

 

[DucoNonducor]

Brilliant!👍

way to get a fast rejection hahaha

 

[isuckatverbal]

way to get a fast rejection hahaha

No... do a charge-reversal on the schools that reject you post secondary