Can weak LoRs break your application?

[satyr.ickle]

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Solid applicant in terms of numbers, ecs, and clinical experience (70 LizzyM, 512 MCAT, 3.75 GPA, 250 clinical volunteering hrs, research, all that jazz). Also got a decent PS.

So now I'm making rounds on all the profs I had in the past and none of them remember me. Literally the only "good" ones I could procure is my volunteer coordinator who can say good things about me in a lor, and an MD I shadowed which I know is never even held that seriously. The 3 faculty lors will likely sound generic as ****.

Looking for anecdotes from adcoms, have any of u guys rejected based on weak lors?

I really hate this part of the application 🙁

 

[yuio]

Purely anecdotal but I know someone that got into school just fine with ONLY letters from professors who didn't know her. My PI also told me she's written very mediocre and short letters for a couple students who were poor in the lab and they both got into mulitple schools and their top choices.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

Does your school do committee letters? If so you need to get one of those. I think those are more generic anyways so that may work in your favor if so. Did you not anticipate needing LORs? just curious. And to answer your question yes they can definitely make/break you in certain circumstances.

 

[satyr.ickle]

Does your school do committee letters? If so you need to get one of those. I think those are more generic anyways so that may work in your favor. Did you not anticipate needing LORs?

yes a committee letter is made, compiled fron my 5 individual letter.

 

[Goro]

Yes.

Remember that this process is a negative selection process. Like the Penguins vs the Sharks, those applicants with the fewest mistakes win.

You'll never get advice from an Admissions dean on "get better LORs". Not writer would ever trust Deans again. You'll be told, "beef up your ECs or interview skills," or something else.

Generally, weak LORs will hurt borderline candidates the most.

Solid applicant in terms of numbers, ecs, and clinical experience (70 LizzyM, 512 MCAT, 3.75 GPA, 250 clinical volunteering hrs, research, all that jazz). Also got a decent PS.

So now I'm making rounds on all the profs I had in the past and none of them remember me. Literally the only "good" ones I could procure is my volunteer coordinator who can say good things about me in a lor, and an MD I shadowed which I know is never even held that seriously. The 3 faculty lors will likely sound generic as ****.

Looking for anecdotes from adcoms, have any of u guys rejected based on weak lors?

I really hate this part of the application 🙁

 

[satyr.ickle]

**** im borderline as ****

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

**** im borderline as ****

How much time do you have to possibly secure better LORs? None?

 

[satyr.ickle]

How much time do you have to possibly secure better LORs?

Im applying this cycle, finished primary yesterday. Likely a month at most

 

[DokterMom]

Solid applicant in terms of numbers, ecs, and clinical experience (70 LizzyM, 512 MCAT, 3.75 GPA, 250 clinical volunteering hrs, research, all that jazz). Also got a decent PS.

So now I'm making rounds on all the profs I had in the past and none of them remember me. Literally the only "good" ones I could procure is my volunteer coordinator who can say good things about me in a lor, and an MD I shadowed which I know is never even held that seriously. The 3 faculty lors will likely sound generic as ****.

Looking for anecdotes from adcoms, have any of u guys rejected based on weak lors?

I really hate this part of the application 🙁

Are you a non-trad? And if so, how long have you been out of school? If you attended a huge school and have been out for a while, a 'generic' letter won't hurt you as much.

But if you're in school now, get peddling! Visit a few of your professors in person and remind them where you sat in their lectures and how you did in their classes. Give them a resume/CV that includes all of your volunteering / good deeds and a brief statement about why you want to be a physician -- your PS? Acknowledge that they don't know you well and grovel.

For SDN readers who anticipate applying next cycle -- Don't let this be you! If you are not currently known to your professors, make it a point to get known! Sit near the front. Ask a few good questions. You know those embarrassing moments when the prof asks the class a question and nobody responds? Be the one who says something, even if it's a clarifying question. Introduce yourself early in the semester if needed. Put an appearance in for office hours. And put in the extra effort to do extraordinarily well in the class.

 

[MaxPlancker]

Most letters are likely generic/standard. Having outstanding letters elevate you. Having anything negative, even between the line, sinks you.

P.S. Giving a CV/PS is honestly a terrible idea IMO when asking for LORs.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

P.S. Giving a CV/PS is honestly a terrible idea IMO when asking for LORs.

See I always wondered about this. I always thought it was dumb, but people on here advocate for it.

On the one hand I think it gives them a better idea of what you're doing with your time, maybe more insight into the type of person you are and why you want to pursue medicine. On the other hand I feel like they should just be writing a letter based on their experiences with you, and if it is a professor they probably just need to be writing about your academic, classroom and personal performance.

Your thoughts?

 

[MaxPlancker]

See I always wondered about this. I always thought it was dumb, but people on here advocate for it.

On the one hand I think it gives them a better idea of what you're doing with your time, maybe more insight into the type of person you are and why you want to pursue medicine. On the other hand I feel like they should just be writing a letter based on their experiences with you, and if it is a professor they probably just need to be writing about your academic, classroom and personal performance.

Your thoughts?

Bingo. If you want a strong LOR, they shouldn't mention that you did this that etc which is elsewhere in the AMCAS. They should select a few memorable experiences and use those to illustrate you as a person. I purposefully don't give my CV etc so they don't rehash what's in there. In a recent thread, LizzyM also spoke along similar lines.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

Plus I feel like if you're really getting it in and sitting at the front of class, wide eyed, not messing with phone, nicely groomed, asking the important questions while the rest of the class has no idea whats going on as I often take the initiative to ensure, you'll be ok without the CV and it wont make it sound like they are basing their input off your own in the PS.

Front of the class nicely groomed being essential as ****. Ty men.

 

[aalamruad]

Like the Penguins vs the Sharks, those applicants with the fewest mistakes win.

How dare you, sir. At least wait until the wound has healed.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

One of the guys I know who sits on an adcom has used the term "damning by faint praise" more than once to describe bad LORs.

Like if you can't find one person to write a letter describing you as anything more than a "dedicated student" with "lots of potential" that may make adcoms uneasy.

Keep in mind most schools will accept non-professor LORs in addition to the mandatory 2 science and 1 non-science professors letters. My professor letters were pretty blah but I was able to supplement them with letters from my mentor, PI, and a former boss.

 

[DokterMom]

Bingo. If you want a strong LOR, they shouldn't mention that you did this that etc which is elsewhere in the AMCAS. They should select a few memorable experiences and use those to illustrate you as a person. I purposefully don't give my CV etc so they don't rehash what's in there. In a recent thread, LizzyM also spoke along similar lines.

In general, I'd agree with this. The people writing your LoRs should KNOW you, or at least have some impressions grounded in fact so they don't end up rehashing your CV - which, yes, is boring. But in this case, since the professors apparently don't know the applicant, having something to go on is better than having nothing. Hopefully, they'll see "Volunteered for two years with Alzheimer patients" and say "Has demonstrated concern for others."

Plus I feel like if you're really getting it in and sitting at the front of class, wide eyed, not messing with phone, nicely groomed, asking the important questions while the rest of the class has no idea whats going on as I often take the initiative to ensure, you'll be ok without the CV and it wont make it sound like they are basing their input off your own in the PS.

Front of the class nicely groomed being essential as ****. Ty men.

And with this. Preferable to the CV.

 

[satyr.ickle]

Are you a non-trad? And if so, how long have you been out of school? If you attended a huge school and have been out for a while, a 'generic' letter won't hurt you as much.

Trad at one of the nation's biggest unis. Typical biomed class has ~100-200 kids

 

[Ismet]

Most letters are likely generic/standard. Having outstanding letters elevate you. Having anything negative, even between the line, sinks you.

P.S. Giving a CV/PS is honestly a terrible idea IMO when asking for LORs.

Nah the vast majority of LORs I have read have been glowing. The generic/standard ones are few but stick out in a bad way. But that's just one school, and that's only those who are interviewed.

How dare you, sir. At least wait until the wound has healed.

Go ! 😀

 

[satyr.ickle]

Nah the vast majority of LORs I have read have been glowing

:,(

 

[DingoPingo]

Solid applicant in terms of numbers, ecs, and clinical experience (70 LizzyM, 512 MCAT, 3.75 GPA, 250 clinical volunteering hrs, research, all that jazz). Also got a decent PS.

So now I'm making rounds on all the profs I had in the past and none of them remember me. Literally the only "good" ones I could procure is my volunteer coordinator who can say good things about me in a lor, and an MD I shadowed which I know is never even held that seriously. The 3 faculty lors will likely sound generic as ****.

Looking for anecdotes from adcoms, have any of u guys rejected based on weak lors?

I really hate this part of the application 🙁

Did you graduate a long time ago? Were all of your classes large classes? How can none of your professors remember you?

I asked a professor from a couple years ago, that I never even spoke to face-to-face. I really hope you can find some professors that can offer to help write you one. Ask everyone, they just might remember you!

 

[Med Ed]

See I always wondered about this. I always thought it was dumb, but people on here advocate for it.

On the one hand I think it gives them a better idea of what you're doing with your time, maybe more insight into the type of person you are and why you want to pursue medicine. On the other hand I feel like they should just be writing a letter based on their experiences with you, and if it is a professor they probably just need to be writing about your academic, classroom and personal performance.

Your thoughts?

I typically request a CV when writing an LOR. Perhaps my brain is playing a trick on itself, but I feel that reviewing a concise record of someone's data and notable accomplishments puts me in a better mindset to write something compelling on that person's behalf. It has nothing to do with rehashing anything that is clearly spelled out elsewhere. YMMV.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

I typically request a CV when writing an LOR. Perhaps my brain is playing a trick on itself, but I feel that reviewing a concise record of someone's data and notable accomplishments puts me in a better mindset to write something compelling on that person's behalf. It has nothing to do with rehashing anything that is clearly spelled out elsewhere. YMMV.

I can see it being useful in that way; I think its situation dependent. For example, when I have my supervisor write one, even though they don't exactly know what I do outside of work with my time, they should know plenty to write about my personality, work ethic, teamwork skills, etc. I suspect most glowing LORs are of this same feather. If i didn't think they could write about me without a CV I probably wouldn't ask, thats just me. Im most situations I doubt providing the CV is actually going to hurt for this same reason. Thanks for your input doc.

 

[JessebenBenjamin]

Im applying this cycle, finished primary yesterday. Likely a month at most

I would advice to get ask those 3 professors you know ASAP, and while they are writing your letters work on getting to know other professors.
If you can't get strong letters AT LEAST you'll have some letters. Worst case scenario I think would be waiting for that "strong letter" and then having to wait 2-3 months for it. (Which would make you a late applicant).

 

[gublagu3]

In my personal experience, generic/weak lors from professors will not sink you. Given the fact that I went to a large university, both of the science professors who wrote a LOR for me barely knew me, other than the fact that I had done well in the class. Hence, I am confident they were able to write little more than this student did well in my class. Despite this, I was accepted at multiple places.

At the same time, I will add that even though the LORs from my science profs were weak, I think I had strong LORs from my PI and a volunteer program director.