Can you apply to MD programs from within a PhD program?

[DeadCactus]

I mean certainly you "can", but does it put you at any sort of disadvantage or do you have to be in your graduating year?

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[Coconut45]

From what I have heard (and this was in reference to grad programs in general), it looks best if you finish everything you start. I'm sure people have gone to med school after dropping out of grad school, but you probably just have to be able to articulate why you did it very well. If you're planning on completing the PhD, I think it would make the most sense to apply once you get confirmation from your committee that you'll definitely be done by early summer (that might even be cutting it close.)

 

[QofQuimica]

I mean certainly you "can", but does it put you at any sort of disadvantage or do you have to be in your graduating year?

There's another thread about two below yours that is basically asking this same question. No, you cannot usually transfer into medical school while you're still a grad student. No, you should not plan on applying to medical school while you're a grad student before your last year of grad school. And even while you're writing up your thesis, you'd better make sure to get your PI to write in your LOR that s/he expects you to graduate on time, because inquiring med school adcoms will most certainly want to know.

You're still in college, right? Like I told the other kid, you are *much* better off applying straight-MD than straight-PhD, unless you've decided that you don't want to get an MD at all.

 

[DeadCactus]

If I can, I fully intend to do go straight to either an MD/PhD or MD program. The question is what to do if I am denied at both levels. I hate the idea of an entire year spent with no progress made on such a long time line.

I'm trying to find a way to chip away at the long pipeline if I find myself with an extra year or two at hand while re-applying, but it doesn't seem like there is one. Even if I could apply from a PhD program, it's not like that credit would transfer so in retrospect I'm not sure why I asked.

Though at least I would have one or two years down on the pure PhD path if at the end of the day a medical degree is just not in my future...

So any suggestions? Right now, the best plan I can come up with is applying to every MD/PhD program with research options that sounds interesting, every MD program I can actually picture being not-miserable at for four years, and applying to a few PhD programs. Specifically, a handful of PhD programs at MD/PhD schools that are my top interests and one or two PhD programs that I think I would not mind delaying Medical School to attend.

Not a bad plan, but it leaves me applying to a very limited number of PhD programs (which honestly I'm probably not competitive for) and thus there is still the chance of nothing but rejections. I can either increase the number of PhD applications to make a more likely event that I get an acceptance somewhere or come up with a more reliable fall back all together (ie employment either in industry or more likely as a research assistant). Advice? Comments?

Edit: Spelling and an amendment.

 

[QofQuimica]

Would you mind posting your stats and ECs? I seem to remember you doing it once, but I'd appreciate it if you'd humor me and do it again so I don't have to go look through all your old posts.

Getting into grad school is pretty easy. You more or less need to have a college diploma, previous research experience, a GRE score, and a pulse. It also helps to be bipedal, but that might be optional. Getting into med school is a lot harder, as you already know.

I think you should apply to MD/PhD, DO/PhD, and MD programs. You can also apply for MS programs in case you don't get into med school the first time around. Most MS programs can be completed in two years, and it will shore up your research background if that's what you need. But more importantly, I also think you should be more confident and less defeatist. You know, it's impossible for anyone to predict the future, including you. Unless you tell us that you have a GPA under a 3.0 and/or an MCAT under 25, then I don't think it's so impossible for you to get into a med school if you apply broadly enough. Obviously, higher stats are better and make you more competitive, but a 3.5 and a 30 would make you perfectly competitive at most state medical schools. If you're a Texas resident, you're in a great state to apply; TX has tons of schools of varying levels of competitiveness. I'll let the TX applicants fill you in on applying to TMDSAS since I only applied to Baylor as an OOS applicant.

Anyway, this is a long-winded way of me saying that if you know you want an MD degree, then stiffen that spine and fight for it. The risk of failing to get into med school if you apply is infinitely lower than the risk of failing to get into med school if you don't apply.

 

[DeadCactus]

To preface this, I know I am being rather negative. I just like to plan for the worst case scenario and so I probably come off very nervous and fretty here.

Numbers:
No GRE or MCAT yet. By the time of application, barring a catastrophe and miracle, GPA should be somewhere be between 3.2 to 3.4, probably closer to the the lower end. Somewhat of an upward trend, but nothing I'd fit a curve to.

Research:
I will have two semesters and a summer by the time of application. No publications or anything as of yet, but a possibility. Half the time spent on grunt work, half spent involved in more enriching endeavors.

Letters of recommendation:
I'll be getting one from a practicing MD, one from the department chair (took a class he taught), and one from my PI.

Extra curricular:
EMT-B certified. A few hundred hours of experience, split between volunteering and working. Plan to do some more volunteer stuff in a clinic this summer, but that may be too late for the written portion of applications.

I'm a TA for one of my University's PE classes, basically a certified Instructor and act in that capacity.

A few other odds and ends: summer study abroad, tutored for a bit, etc.

I know I'm not in a "doomed to failure" position, my GPA just makes me nervous for med school applications and my research background seems light for physician-scientist programs.

It probably doesn't help that my major is light on pre-meds so most of the stats I see are here on SDN, which tend to be higher than a representative sample...

 

[Chrishel]

I can't speak for any programs besides The University of Chicago, but here, the precedent has been set (and reinforced several times) of admitting people into the MSTP who are already here working on their PhD. These students immediately get all the financial benefits of the "regular" MSTP students, but don't start their medical school coursework until their PhD is done. Effectively, this means they get to pick up an MD after their PhD with a scholarship/stipend. Although I am not certain, I believe these students are also made to go through significantly less of the hassle/stress of applying and interviewing.

That said, I'm not sure how applicable this would be elsewhere, as University of Chicago is set up in such a way that if the director of the MSTP wants you, you are in. Anybody else that technically has a say is more or less a rubber stamp for him, and I'm fairly confident no one in the regular medical school admissions department even gets to look at MD/PhD applications (meaning volunteering/clinical experience are absolutely irrelevant, I know he couldn't care less about them). He is also very frank about who he wants to admit (he generally will tell you the morning of the interview that he intends to accept you if he wants you). Because of this, I have a feeling that for PhD students here, if they impress him by doing good science, it's a pretty darn easy process to add a nicely funded MD. Other schools may have something similar you could look into as well...

 

[QofQuimica]

Numbers:
No GRE or MCAT yet. By the time of application, barring a catastrophe and miracle, GPA should be somewhere be between 3.2 to 3.4, probably closer to the the lower end. Somewhat of an upward trend, but nothing I'd fit a curve to.

Your GPA is lower than average but not so low that it will automatically get you put into the reject pile for MD-only applications. I don't know about MD/PhD programs, but it's reasonable for you to apply to MD-only programs with that GPA, especially since you have an upward trend.

Research:
I will have two semesters and a summer by the time of application. No publications or anything as of yet, but a possibility. Half the time spent on grunt work, half spent involved in more enriching endeavors.

You might be a little light on the research experience for MD/PhD programs compared to other applicants, but just FYI, a pub is not necessary for successful application.

Letters of recommendation:
I'll be getting one from a practicing MD, one from the department chair (took a class he taught), and one from my PI.

Good. Many MD-only schools will also want a nonscience prof letter, so plan on getting one. My state schools also require a peer letter written by another student. I don't know if other states have this requirement, but again, you may need one. Check the requirements for your state schools.

Extra curricular:
EMT-B certified. A few hundred hours of experience, split between volunteering and working. Plan to do some more volunteer stuff in a clinic this summer, but that may be too late for the written portion of applications.

Terrific EC for MD-only programs. Consider asking your supervisor for a LOR.

I'm a TA for one of my University's PE classes, basically a certified Instructor and act in that capacity.

Ditto. Make sure your dept. chairman comments about your performance as an instructor in his LOR.

I know I'm not in a "doomed to failure" position, my GPA just makes me nervous for med school applications and my research background seems light for physician-scientist programs.

It probably doesn't help that my major is light on pre-meds so most of the stats I see are here on SDN, which tend to be higher than a representative sample...

SDN is *not* representative of most premeds. Being nervous is understandable; it's never easy to want something badly and face the possibility of not succeeding. But that's still no excuse to not try. When are you planning to take the MCAT? It's pretty tough to gauge your ultimate competitiveness without an MCAT score.

Assuming you can score in the 30ish range on the MCAT, I'd guess you're probably more competitive for an MD program right now versus MD/PhD. Most if not all MD programs care a great deal about people's volunteering, teaching, and clinical ECs, and you appear to have pretty extensive experience in all of these areas. But like you said, your research experience might be kind of light compared to most MD/PhD applicants. So right now you should prepare for the MCAT and aim for at least a 30. Then, you can either apply this summer for MD programs with the option to add on a PhD (many, many schools offer this option, including state schools), or you can put off applying for a year or two to work in a research lab, get more experience, and maybe even take a few more upper level science classes to help shore up that GPA. The upside is that you'd be a stronger MD/PhD candidate, but the downside is having to wait for a year or two to apply.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DeadCactus]

Edit: Dumb question.

Thank you everyone for the input. Special thanks to QofQuimica.

 

[DeadCactus]

Do things like University sponsored grants to fund undergraduate research help significantly in strengthening your research background or is the time you've been involved the major issue?

That is to say, will things like small awards and publications make up for short involvement or is there a baseline time one needs to hit and the rest are just sprinkles and topings?