"Can you perform the function required of this school with or without reasonable accommodation?"

[that kid]

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I'm not disabled, so this question doesn't impact me, but is anyone else angry that this question even exists on secondaries? Shouldn't this be illegal? I feel like this ought to violate the ADA.

 

[Lucca]

( I have an essentially invisible physical disability). I mean, the question could be worded more tactfully as: "Do you foresee requiring any special accomodations while enrolled in medical school?" but it's not illegal. Unfortunately, whether or not one discloses their disability before interview is a thorny business because schools do at some point need to know whether or not you will require accomodations and it's difficult to anticipate before hand how friendly a school is or isn't to disabled applicants (no matter what the laws say about discriminating against the physically disabled *if* it can be shown that they can meet technical standards with accomodation).

 

[BigBoss]

Why would it be illegal? How else they give disability services without asking?


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[DokterMom]

Not at all -- If your disabilities are so severe that you can't perform - even with "reasonable accommodation" then how would you be able to do the job?

This is not a "What disabilities do you have, if any?" question, but rather a simple Yes/No "Can you do what needs to be done?" question.

 

[that kid]

Why would it be illegal? How else they give disability services without asking?


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My gripe with the question is that it asks "with or without", implying that they only want students who would be successful without accommodation. If the question were "will you be able to perform in med school as long as we provide reasonable accommodation" I would be ok with it.

 

[that kid]

( I have an essentially invisible physical disability). I mean, the question could be worded more tactfully as: "Do you foresee requiring any special accomodations while enrolled in medical school?" but it's not illegal. Unfortunately, whether or not one discloses their disability before interview is a thorny business because schools do at some point need to know whether or not you will require accomodations and it's difficult to anticipate before hand how friendly a school is or isn't to disabled applicants (no matter what the laws say about discriminating against the physically disabled *if* it can be shown that they can meet technical standards with accomodation).

I'm sorry you're in this situation. Maybe you can reach out to current students to see what accommodations the school offers if you're invited to interview? I certainly wouldn't disclose it in a secondary though, especially if you think you can pass without accommodation. If anything, having a disability would likely make you a better doctor because you'd be more empathetic towards your future patients.

 

[Med Ed]

My gripe with the question is that it asks "with or without", implying that they only want students who would be successful without accommodation. If the question were "will you be able to perform in med school as long as we provide reasonable accommodation" I would be ok with it.

The language is lifted straight from the EEOC. No need to get riled up.

 

[that kid]

The language is lifted straight from the EEOC. No need to get riled up.

Wow. I didn't realize that. I have a problem with the EEOC then.

 

[Med Ed]

Wow. I didn't realize that. I have a problem with the EEOC then.

The language is meant to declare ADA protection for those with disabilities regardless of the need for accommodation. It is fundamentally inclusive. That's a good thing.

 

[that kid]

The language is meant to declare ADA protection for those with disabilities regardless of the need for accommodation. It is fundamentally inclusive. That's a good thing.

Ohh ok, my bad. I misunderstood.

 

[chaim123]

My gripe with the question is that it asks "with or without", implying that they only want students who would be successful without accommodation. If the question were "will you be able to perform in med school as long as we provide reasonable accommodation" I would be ok with it.

I don't think its actually implying that. Given that this is a yes or no question, anyone who answers yes is stating that they can complete the tasks. Some may need accommodation and some may not, but there is no way to know yet. If you answer no to this question, then it is stating that even with accommodation you cannot complete the technical standards needed to be a doctor

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

( I have an essentially invisible physical disability). I mean, the question could be worded more tactfully as: "Do you foresee requiring any special accomodations while enrolled in medical school?" but it's not illegal. Unfortunately, whether or not one discloses their disability before interview is a thorny business because schools do at some point need to know whether or not you will require accomodations and it's difficult to anticipate before hand how friendly a school is or isn't to disabled applicants (no matter what the laws say about discriminating against the physically disabled *if* it can be shown that they can meet technical standards with accomodation).

Interestingly enough, there is usually a department offering aid and disability services for medical students. They actually anticipate the needs of students like yourself with invisible disabilities (depression, anxiety disorder, chronic ailment, ADHD, etc.) who don’t disclose their status in secondaries. Given common stigmatizations, I don’t blame these applicants one bit. One nice thing is that services here are completely free and confidential, meaning that not even your dean or teachers will know you have a disability. My recommendation for applicants in similar shoes...unless they have a glaringly obvious disability, it probably wouldn’t be the best idea to disclose their status on secondaries (especially if their condition is mental health related). The option to disclose it later will always be open to you, where you are 99% less likely to be negatively judged by it.

 

[theKingLT]

Ohh ok, my bad. I misunderstood.

I think the problem is when people say with or without it implies you should be able to do something either way, but in reality that would be with and without. It's just somewhere where our colloquial speech differs from grammatical correctness, so the speech while actually inclusive, "sounds" otherwise

 

[Med Ed]

Ohh ok, my bad. I misunderstood.

Wait, this is the internet. Are you sure you don't want to double down or perhaps go ad hominem?

 

[Goro]

Wait, this is the internet. Are you sure you don't want to double down or perhaps go ad hominem?

It's not the SPF.

 

[theKingLT]

Wait, this is the internet. Are you sure you don't want to double down or perhaps go ad hominem?

Of course. There's no room for being reasonable here or god forbid admitting mistakes

 

[that kid]

Wait, this is the internet. Are you sure you don't want to double down or perhaps go ad hominem?

lol

 

[that kid]

Interestingly enough, there is usually a department offering aid and disability services for medical students. They actually anticipate the needs of students like yourself with invisible disabilities (depression, anxiety disorder, chronic ailment, ADHD, etc.) who don’t disclose their status in secondaries. Given common stigmatizations, I don’t blame these applicants one bit. One nice thing is that services here are completely free and confidential, meaning that not even your dean or teachers will know you have a disability. My recommendation for applicants in similar shoes...unless they have a glaringly obvious disability, it probably wouldn’t be the best idea to disclose their status on secondaries (especially if their condition is mental health related). The option to disclose it later will always be open to you, where you are 99% less likely to be negatively judged by it.

People should get an adcom's opinion before applying, but I 100% agree.

 

[Lucca]

Interestingly enough, there is usually a department offering aid and disability services for medical students. They actually anticipate the needs of students like yourself with invisible disabilities (depression, anxiety disorder, chronic ailment, ADHD, etc.) who don’t disclose their status in secondaries. Given common stigmatizations, I don’t blame these applicants one bit. One nice thing is that services here are completely free and confidential, meaning that not even your dean or teachers will know you have a disability. My recommendation for applicants in similar shoes...unless they have a glaringly obvious disability, it probably wouldn’t be the best idea to disclose their status on secondaries (especially if their condition is mental health related). The option to disclose it later will always be open to you, where you are 99% less likely to be negatively judged by it.

Yah, other people on sDN in the past have reported mostly positive experiences and have not been held back from achieving their goals. I wasn’t trying to suggest that schools were doing a bad job of this, only that from the applicant’s side it can be an uncomfortable decision. I agree that the question is a non-issue, just a bit different than how most schools word it (do you understand our technical standards? Do you need accomodation?)

 

[RNtoMD87]

Theyre asking if you can accomplish medical school with reasonable assistance.

Makes sense to me. If you cant function in medical school, how will you function as a doctor? There is a certain innate physical and mental requirement.

 

[drbatsandwich]

You can't be a pastry chef unless you can basically deadlift 50lb bags of flour and sugar and then carry them across the building or stand on your feet with no breaks for 12-14 hours a day. Should they hire people who can't physically perform the duties of the job? Any job that requires physical labor or is physically strenuous will have some wording as such on their applications. It is perfectly legal, and needs to be said.

Unless you legit CANNOT perform the tasks they'll ask of you DESPITE reasonable accommodation, all you have to do is say yes and move on.

 

[getdown]

I always find it interesting that the people who get outraged the most over these types of PC/non-PC issues are the ones who are least affected by the issues. The ones the questions/issue effect often understand the meaning, answer it and move on with their lives.

 

[Goro]

I always find it interesting that the people who get outraged the most over these types of PC/non-PC issues are the ones who are least affected by the issues. The ones the questions/issue effect often understand the meaning, answer it and move on with their lives.

You noticed that too? I have no doubt a non-Hispanic came up with the term "Latinx". But I digress. I think that we've addressed the OP's concerns. No need to pile on, lest we end up in the SPF, where the thread will turn into 10 pages of :
A: That's wrong!!
B: No, it's not!
A: Yes it is!
B: No it's not!

 

[getdown]

You noticed that too? I have no doubt a non-Hispanic came up with the term "Latinx". But I digress. I think that we've addressed the OP's concerns. No need to pile on, lest we end up in the SPF, where the thread will turn into 10 pages of :
A: That's wrong!!
B: No, it's not!
A: Yes it is!
B: No it's not!

Oh, I'm not piling on. Just making a simple observation of what's been happening in the news over the past several years. But I understand your point.

 

[Osminog]

There are blind doctors, quadriplegic doctors, schizophrenic doctors, etc. What sort of disability or disease would preclude someone from being able to become a doctor?

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

There are blind doctors, quadriplegic doctors, schizophrenic doctors, etc. What sort of disability or disease would preclude someone from being able to become a doctor?

Uncontrolled mental illness. Severe autism. and others.


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[Goro]

There are blind doctors, quadriplegic doctors, schizophrenic doctors, etc. What sort of disability or disease would preclude someone from being able to become a doctor?

To my count, there have been maybe three blind medical students ever who went on to practice. People with severe technical deficits might get through medical school, but are at high risk for not getting into residency.

And to answer your question, any condition that would have the Adcom doubting a candidate not make it through medical school or being able to practice. And to head off possible complaints about this hard calculus, med school is not the Make A Wish Foundation.

 

[RNtoMD87]

You have to be realistic. What can a blind doctor really do?

They can't visually assess. That's a huge huge problem.

Do I have a huge amount of empathy for blind people? Sure. But there are criteria.

Some impediments are probably less of a hinderance. I could see a wheelchair bound doctor. But how do you have a quadriplegic doctor?

The only way I could see it is if they had many years of practice, and only later be came paralyzed and now use their experience in more academic or advisory roles.

I really can't believe this is a discussion.

Why can't a quadraplegic be an mma fighter?! It isn't fair! I'm going to raise this issue! It's not their fault they're paralyzed. Who are we to stop them?!