Canadian applicants

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under taker

under taker

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  1. Pre-Dental
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Currently applying, and not sure whether or not to waste my money by clicking the e-submit....

I have a 2.63 GPA, and a 20 AA, 21 TS, and 20 PAT
I have very good ref. letter from a dentist, like really good.
But my professor ref. letters arent as hot
Im canadian and go to a canadian uni.
I have mainly Cs and Bs as my GPA shows


What are my potentials to schools like Boston, NYU, etc. (big private schools)
 
Hi 🙂 Before you apply, I think you should retake any classes that you got a C-. Your GPA is very low, and most schools will not accept that low of a GPA. Also, look into doing a post-bacc program. This is look great on your application if you didn't do well in your undergrad. Also, a post-bacc looks good because it shows that you are capable of taking graduate level courses, assuming that you do well.
 
I think that if you've gone through the trouble of writing DAT and shadowing and obtaining recommendation letters, then the least you can do is to stay committed and submit; however, be prepared to take a two-pronged approach and concurrently enroll in a post-bacc (formal or informal) or course-based masters program to help raise your GPA a bit, in case things don't go as planned the first time. Some school secondaries have a section where you can explain any circumstances that may have affected your performance during school. Since you are Canadian, definitely stay with the large, private schools that you mentioned. May I also suggest USC and Pittsburgh, but I do not know if they have GPA cut-offs like Case Western.
 

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Whatever you do, do not apply to any Canadian school with those stats, it's a waste of money.
Another thing you can do is doing another undergrad or extra years. That might help.
 
Pittsburgh according to their website only have 1 international student....
 
According to 2011 ADEA Official Guide to Dental Schools, international students at Pittsburgh comprised of 8 from Canada, 1 from Japan and 5 from South Korea. That's a pretty impressive number of international students. I know of one Canadian who is attending Pittsburgh. On the same note, Minnesotta also took in 6 Canadian according the guide. The guide is also pretty useful because they give you GPA and DAT ranges of the entering class.

I haven't visited the Pittsburgh dental school website, but it could be that the information there was not updated, which I know is the case for some school sites.
 
I just remembered that Australia has a reciprocity agreement with Canada, but I do not know how competitive these schools are although I'd imagine they would be on par with most U.S. schools. I'm just offering more avenues for you but it could be something to look into if you are not opposed to the idea of studying abroad.
 
I don't understand why people are even suggesting that he stands a chance at the big private/international-friendly schools. I hate to say this, but honestly there's zero chance to get in any US/Australian school with a 2.63 GPA. Don't waste your hard-earned money...unless of course there's something extraordinary extracurricular/achievements.
Other than that, I agree with what most people suggested: do post-bacc or more undergrad to bring that GPA to at least 3.0+.
 
I wouldn't say that it is entirely hopeless for the OP but definitely not great, but if you look at the range of GPA (science and total) for some of the larger private schools, you will find that some applicants in the past have been accepted with similar GPAs. Now, we don't know the OP's whole story, so it's not fair to discredit him just yet since he does have decent DAT scores. I'm not suggesting that the OP apply to 25+ schools, because that would not be the best use of his/her money. Rather, just to apply to a handful of schools and see if OP can get interviews and work from there to see if anyone is willing to hear the OP out. Otherwise, completing a post-bacc or masters will be the more realistic route.
 
With that GPA, you will not get in. I applied with a 3.4, 19s and 300hrs of volunteering and did not get a single interview last cycle. DO NOT WASTE your money on application, spend it on course registration. Honest opinion .
 
I have about 500 hours of volunteering, and I'm in a fraternity. I volunteer in hospital, research lab (i dont do research tho), dentist office (shadow), and a few others.
If i re write my DATs and get a 22 avg do i stand a chance, i am canadian and thats what "scares" me...
 
Your GPA is below the 2.75 minimum cut off...Its going to be very difficult without a 24+ DAT. GL on your decisions.
 
the title of your thread should be 2.63 gpa, not canadian applicant

'cause the former's the much bigger issue here
 
+1...I wonder why so many canadian's think it is so easy to get into dental school here vs. Canada. I understand Canadian admission is much harder, but geez!
 
I saw that excel it doesnt make much sense, so basically about a 100 canadians are accepted US dental school? But i want to know how much my GPA will hurt my chances if i have an amazing DAT, ECs, and reference letter from dentist....
 
I saw that excel it doesnt make much sense, so basically about a 100 canadians are accepted US dental school? But i want to know how much my GPA will hurt my chances if i have an amazing DAT, ECs, and reference letter from dentist....
 
Doc Toothache was trying to show you just how competitive It is for Canadians. Only around 125 Canadians get accepted per year...this goes to show that it is much much more competitive for Canadians to get accepted...Yes your gpa hurts no matter what
 
I saw that excel it doesnt make much sense, so basically about a 100 canadians are accepted US dental school? But i want to know how much my GPA will hurt my chances if i have an amazing DAT, ECs, and reference letter from dentist....

Also if i get a 24 DAT do i stand a chance then???
 
Your chances are zero. No chance. Your GPA is way too low and you will not make the initial cutoff before screening. To get into a dental school with that low of GPA, you would usually need to be a legacy, and with a parent that donates a substantial amount of money. Also, it would help if you were applying your state school and come from a disadvantaged background.

These criteria do not apply to you.

Also, Canadians have to be overqualified compared to their American classmates to get into American schools.

Even if you're an American, you will have almost zero chance of getting in. As a Canadian, those odds are even worst.

Here are your only real options at this point:

1. If you really want to do dental, your odds are actually better getting into a Canadian school like Western, which takes only 2 of your top years, although you have to average 3.90 in those years to be considered. So start a new degree, and get 4.0's the first 2 and apply during your third year.

2. American schools average out all of your years, so your hope is lost there. It's almost impossible to pull a GPA up to a respectable 3.30 to be considered. You'd have to get 4.0 for the next 4 years to pull your GPA to 3.30. And you would need to get at least a 22 (97th percentile) to go along with that 3.30 GPA to be considered.

Although you could prove me wrong because I don't know much about you. You could be an Olympian or you could have built a hospital in Africa from your bare hands. But if it's regular volunteering stuff anyone can do, and a dentist letter that adcoms ask for most don't even read, then it won't be good enough.

Also scoring a 24 (99.9 percentile) is easier said than done.
 
So i shouldnt waste my money even with a high DAT?
 
No one here has the right to tell you what to do with your money. Everyone has just offered you facts and statistics to better help your decision. Albino Polar Bear has offered you more good advice, and I would take it, as he has already been a successful applicant. Until you have at least a 3.0 gpa, you remain highly uncompetitive.
 
under taker said:
I have about 500 hours of volunteering, and I'm in a fraternity. I volunteer in hospital, research lab (i dont do research tho), dentist office (shadow), and a few others.
If i re write my DATs and get a 22 avg do i stand a chance, i am canadian and thats what "scares" me...
Click to expand...

ASDOH is your only hope.
 
If i get a 23DAT, im writing next week
 
Canadian applicant here. Last cycle I applied with a 3.09 and a 25AA, only got 1 interview from NYU, and still waitlisted.

Save your money
 
Azrael, now that post makes me more certain of my potentials. If i may ask what were ur ECs and ref. letterrs like>?
 
under taker said:
Azrael, now that post makes me more certain of my potentials. If i may ask what were ur ECs and ref. letterrs like>?
Click to expand...

My main ECs are 50 hours of dental shadowing,a service trip to Guatemala, worked for a bio prof for 2 yrs on his projects.

My ref letter from the prof I work for is superb (I'm assuming), we frequently have coffee and got A and A+ in both of his upper level courses. My dental letter is great but probably not the best. My other letters are just from profs I have gotten A's/A+'s in.

AlbinoPolarBear said:
Unfortunately, it's going to be crazy hard to make up for a low GPA.
Click to expand...

Don't I know it...fortunately I got it bumped up to a 3.34 for this cycle so hopefully things go much better.
 
Do u think ur GPA was the only thing holding u back? what did u learn about dental schools last cycle in regards to us international students? What difference is ur app this cycle?
 
under taker said:
Do u think ur GPA was the only thing holding u back? what did u learn about dental schools last cycle in regards to us international students? What difference is ur app this cycle?
Click to expand...

I'm positive it was my GPA, everything in my app seems to be in check. About us international students, there isn't really much advice but to apply broadly and to the big private schools. The major change in my app for this cycle is my GPA.
 
I know OP wants to apply to American schools, but I need to clarify things about Western University in Canada:


AlbinoPolarBear said:
1. If you really want to do dental, your odds are actually better getting into a Canadian school like Western, which takes only 2 of your top years, although you have to average 3.90 in those years to be considered. So start a new degree, and get 4.0's the first 2 and apply during your third year.


Also scoring a 24 (99.9 percentile) is easier said than done.
Click to expand...

Still very unlikely, here is why:


One thing I need to mention is that Western will only count one extra year. If you take two, they will average them together, and then take that value and your best year in regular undergrad and average it again.
http://www.schulich.uwo.ca/dentistry/faq#cani_repeat

Example:

Year 1: 2.2
Year 2: 2.3
Year 3: 3.0
Year 4: 3.0

Average= 2.63

Extra year 1= 4.0
Extra year 2: 4.0

Average extra years: 4.0

Average calculated: (3.0+4.0)/2= 3.5 <<<<<<<<3.8 required
I highly doubt you will get 3.8+ even if you get 4.0 in two extra years. So do not bother with Western. Also another thing to consider is that your course load must be full 5.0 credits, otherwise penalties apply. Western uses percentage system as well. So A+= 95%, A= 87% A=82%, B+=78% B= 74.5%, etc.
You need minimum 84.6% to get an interview.


For more info look at the following the link and find the averages by comparing your school with midpoint of scale 3. If you school provides percentages they will use that percentage:
http://www.ouac.on.ca/docs/omsas/c_omsas_b.pdf

Your ECs, recommendation letters and etc do not have any factor whatsoever other than on your interview day if you use them in your answers to the questions:
http://www.schulich.uwo.ca/dentistry/faq#reference_letters

Lastly but not least, even if you get interview at your score is composed of 60% GPA, 15% DAT score, and 25% Interview score. With your GPA, it's impossible to get into western dentistry, unless Seymour Schulich is your uncle.

If you have an extra year left in your undergraduate, you will need 3.8+ with full course load, and then another extra year. Otherwise:

The only thing I can tell you is take another undergraduate degree. Extra years won't cut it. Even graduate programs won't:
http://www.schulich.uwo.ca/dentistry/ddsadmissions#AdmissionsRequirements

Read under competitiveness for that detail.
 
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Man i thought US schools were easy...no offense but i thought if everything other than GPA was good id get in easily
 
under taker said:
Man i thought US schools were easy...no offense but i thought if everything other than GPA was good id get in easily
Click to expand...

I don't get what you're trying to get out of this thread.

I am also a Canadian applicant. It is not easier to get into a US school. Sure, there are more schools, but if you don't have the competitive scores, no schools, regardless of country, are going to take you.

My advice to you is to work hard and bump up your scores/grades before you apply. I am by no means a spectacular student (cGPA 3.61, DAT 21/21/21), but I also don't come on SDN and whine to everyone else. Take the advice that is given to you and put it to use instead.
 
I only seek to learn if my GPA alone will mean i have no chance. Like if everything else is fine, for instance i cant get into candian schools only because of my GPA is that gonna be the same issue in the US?
 
under taker said:
I only seek to learn if my GPA alone will mean i have no chance. Like if everything else is fine, for instance i cant get into candian schools only because of my GPA is that gonna be the same issue in the US?
Click to expand...

Pretty much. GPA is the single most important determinator of getting into a dental program these years. If you don't make the cutoff, your application will not be reviewed and other factors will not be considered.
Now for regular U.S. citizens/landed immigrants certain schools in U.S. might have a lower GPA cutoff than Canada, but those cutoffs are still in the 3.3 range. 2.67 is way out there, maybe 30 years ago they might have considered it(I have no clue on the subject matter just guessing), but not today.
 
I have never seen a poster that asks the same question so many times man...Please just take these peoples advice!!
 
periopocket said:
I have never seen a poster that asks the same question so many times man...I guess GPA does reflect intelligence to a certain extent.
Click to expand...

Oh come on. Please let's keep it friendly. I'm sure if were in the same situation we would keep asking people for more advice regarding the same subject matter over and over again.
 
I'm sorry, I did not mean it.....I too have struggled to finally pull my GPA up to a 3.3, and I decided to do so via a Masters...I just wish the OP would take our advice, do a post bacc or take an extra year or so in undergrad, and proceed via a masters degree....It would be a silly idea to take the DAT so early when It only lasts 2 years, and he has at least 2 more years of course work to do before considered seriously. Good luck OP, I wish you the best.
 
periopocket said:
I'm sorry, I did not mean it.....I too have struggled to finally pull my GPA up to a 3.3, and I decided to do so via a Masters...I just wish the OP would take our advice, do a post bacc or take an extra year or so in undergrad, and proceed via a masters degree....It would be a silly idea to take the DAT so early when It only lasts 2 years, and he has at least 2 more years of course work to do before considered seriously. Good luck OP, I wish you the best.
Click to expand...

I like your thinking. Yea taking DAT so early is pointless if you need to study at least 2+ years.
 
Op has to keep in mind that he only gets 3 chances at the DAT....Why not save the otheres for when his gpa is at least 3.0+, or has a high post back gpa you know! OP's DAT scores are pretty good as they stand as well. This shows his true potential and intelligence, now he just has to apply this to his course work.
 
periopocket said:
Op has to keep in mind that he only gets 3 chances at the DAT....Why not save the otheres for when his gpa is at least 3.0+, or has a high post back gpa you know! OP's DAT scores are pretty good as they stand as well. This shows his true potential and intelligence, now he just has to apply this to his course work.
Click to expand...

OP is Canadian and Canadian DAT is not limited to three I believe. I'm sure he can take the American DAT if he wants as well. The Expiry is 2 years for most school though.
 
Correct. There is no limit for the Canadian DAT.
 
Does Canadian DAT have PAT? Either way...American Schools frown on applicants who have taken DAT 3+ times which will put him at an additional advantage.
 
periopocket said:
Does Canadian DAT have PAT? Either way...American Schools frown on applicants who have taken DAT 3+ times which will put him at an additional advantage.
Click to expand...

Yep it does have PAT. It doesn't have QR and OC, but it has GC, RC and BIO which are used for TS and AA.

IT really depends if OP has written the American DAT or Canadian DAT. Canadian DAT report will only show the last exam OP has written I believe. So if OP has never applied before, he/she will be ok.
 
Very Interesting! Canadian DAT rules rule!!! Heck I would take the DAT every day lol
 
periopocket said:
Very Interesting! Canadian DAT rules rule!!! Heck I would take the DAT every day lol
Click to expand...

Haha sorry offered only twice a year. Once in November and once in February lol. Oh yeah and you have to wait 4-6 weeks to find out your results. I guess everything is there for a reason.
 
That means that OP is about to take the American DAT, as he claims that he will write in a week!
 
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