canadian IMG going back to canada after medschool in uk

[yatinsardana]

Right.. I know there have been multiple posts and questions on this very point. But I have this question that I would really appreciate if some of you addressed. I'm a Canadian citizen who has come to uk to do his medschool. I'm starting my 4th year now. I have come to understand that even though you're canadian and it may hold a bit of an edge over other international students, when it comes to wanting a residency in canada after medschool, it's pretty hard. Therefore, most recommend taking usmle and doing residency in the states and then going to canada from there....
Fair enough.

My point is, preparing for usmle takes a lot of time and effort. Is all of this really necessary? Would you not be better off in spending your years at med school building up your cv and also doing electives in a couple hospitals in canada to build up a rapport with doctors and get that under your cv too. Then after graduating you can apply to canada.. chances are you won't get in the first time. It's ok.. you start with your foundation programme in the uk and apply next year. In the meantime you continue to brighten your cv. You may or may not get in next year. If you don't you continue to finish f2 and become FULLY registered with the GMC too.
If you're a bright student who has worked hard enough to steer your cv towards going back to canada, surely you'd get accepted after 2-4 attempts??

My question I guess is, why work so hard in doing usmle and also in doing so you forget to enjoy your years at med school.. and then go to USA just to get back to canada. I mean why even go to usa when you don't even want to settle there and all you want to do is go back to canada.

Are you not better off just spending 2-3 more years in the uk (years that you'll be spending in USA) and applying every year and then finally getting into canada. The other benefit of that obviously is that in this time you'll also become fully registered with the gmc, which surely is a bonus. You also cut out the costs of taking usmle, moving to usa, getting used to another healthcare system... don't forget in usa you'll be straight into residency, whereas if you stay in the uk you have foundation programme, which will provide you with good experience too.

Now this theory is something i've come up with myself.. so I would LOVE for a few of you to actually reply to it telling me what you think about it so I can know whether there is a major flaw in my thinking or not.
Please please please.. reply! This is a crucial time in my life!

Thank you !

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[docnotsopc]

Question: Do you have the option of staying and doing residency in the UK?
Also, are you at an Irish school? English one?

I cant answer your question, im sorry but I was just curious

 

[yatinsardana]

Question: Do you have the option of staying and doing residency in the UK?
Also, are you at an Irish school? English one?

I cant answer your question, im sorry but I was just curious

As far as I'm aware yes I shoul have the option of staying here. I know that rules keep changing and it has become harder and harder for internationals to stay but I think everyone can stay for foundations. Hopefully after that for ST training if you're good enough you can find a job too... I think
I'm at university of Birmingham. I think Irish universities are quite good aren't they at training north American students to take the usmle and go back.
Here.. There's no such help.

 

[auna]

I think you should stay in the UK. Here in Canada you will waste a lot of time going through the eternal tunnel of licensing and might get end up doing a menial job just to cover your financial burden...and the worst part is even with the exams under your belt, you could wait years before getting a job..and they say they need doctors in canada badly..what a joke.

oh by the way if you are planning to go to med school again in canada ..you need to go thorugh the MCCEE exams first...yup what a bunch of nonesnese. If i give the exams you would think you could go to work already...if you get a chance.

 

[Giemsa]

and they say they need doctors in canada badly

They haven't said that in years. There is only a shortage in undesirable specialties in undesirable locations.

http://www.cp24.com/canada-heading-for-a-glut-of-doctors-study-1.741540

In fact, the Royal College of Canada is has now assembled a taskforce to look into why some specialties now appear oversupplied . . . .

http://rcpsc.medical.org/publications/dialogue/vol11-10/oversupply_e.php
http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Content_Images/Inside_cma/CMA_Bulletin/2011/bulletin-oct4_EN.pdf

 

[bambi]

A Canadian guy in the year below me in med school in the UK matched into ortho back in Canada on his first attempt, he was not a particularly impressive candidate either. At the moment you can stay in the UK however America is a better bet. It is far more competitive to get basically any job beyond foundation in the UK than it is in the US and very few specialties are run through so there are multiple rounds of re-application. Also, UK training takes twice as long and you earn maybe a 5th of what you would in the US at the end of it.

 

[septoplasty]

Also, I did want to inform the OP that the residency dynamics in the USA are changing drastically.

What occured in the UK a few years ago (limiting PG opportunities/jobs for EU nationals etc.) will soon (rather than later) come into effect in the USA. With the monstrous budget cuts the country is facing within the healthcare division, they cant afford to sponsor foreign nationals to come and train in their country (+ get paid), and yet also have 100's of american/us-img's go unmatched who have federal funding behind them. You'll notice this with many programs refusing to sponsor visa's.

As you are an international grad like myself, best bet is to get into residency anywhere in north america (if you intend on moving to the native land), this will keep your options open once you are certified by either country.

 

[bambi]

Very important to know but you can't say for sure how things will be. THe EU national thing changed again pretty quickly to allow anyone who went to a UK med school to be considered equal to EU grads no matter where they are from so things change all the time. The US is generally far more protective of their own grads though....

 

[jnuts]

We should mention that your chance to get back to Canada is variable by province. Some provinces are impossible or require years out of practice for training programs.

Check the CaRMS eligibility requirements for the provinces you'd like to apply to before making a decision.

On the physician supply issue:
Doctors are in a labour market like everyone else. It has very little to do with funding. (I personally most of us would still work for substantially less than our current compensation but that's a supply side issue and beside the point). Regardless of how the funds get from consumer to provider, demand has a direct relationship to the market for physicians.

However, it's silly to think we're not subject to market cycles. Ever notice that the 70's were about shortage, the 80's and early 90's were about glut. The late 90's and 00's about shortage. Now we're back to glut. And that's medicine in general (read FPs).

Ever notice that the time between shortage and glut is about two training cycles (start medical school to practice) for FPs.

Every specialty has its own labour market with its own cycles; you can even break it down to subspecialty with smaller labour markets undergoing more rapid and more dramatic swings. Some other supply side things can have an impact too (like infrastructure for hospital based specialties) that slow down the supply response to demand.

Barring seismic shifts in practice (i.e. cardiac surgery) the demand for medical services is going up both as gross population goes up and as demographics skew older. I don't think the market will respond well to efforts to cut costs by limiting supply without changing demand (and again, personally, I don't think the ACA does that).

The point is: basing your professional choices on current market conditions--as opposed to projected--may not be the best idea. By projected I don't mean just when you graduate; you need to look over the course of your career which may span two or three market cycles. I think we should all think about our own financial situation and ability to ride out market fluctuations and personal preferences about the geographic size of the market you want to participate in as part of career path decisions.