Canadian medical school versus reapplying

[Monette]

Hey guys,

I was hoping my fellow Canadians could weigh in on my situation:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=295306

Thanks in advance. 🙂

Monette

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[ssc_396]

Hey guys,

I was hoping my fellow Canadians could weigh in on my situation:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=295306

Thanks in advance. 🙂

Monette

It sounds like you're interested interested in practicing in the US. That being the case give your spot to a needy Canadian and wait one year.

I don't know if you answered this, but have you visited any of the 'top' 15 schools in the US? I did something similar. I applied to 6 schools in the top 10 - only because I knew nothing about US schools but had friends there who were happy and I recognized the names. I got 4 interviews, went to 3, accepted to 1 and waitlisted at the others. In the end I realised school in Canada is easily as good as in the US and the few things I liked better in the US are not worth the extra 200K, so I turned down my US acceptance and will be staying in Canada for meds. I wasted alot of money and time learning this. Don't make the same mistake.

 

[Monette]

It sounds like you're interested interested in practicing in the US. That being the case give your spot to a needy Canadian and wait one year.

I don't know if you answered this, but have you visited any of the 'top' 15 schools in the US? I did something similar. I applied to 6 schools in the top 10 - only because I knew nothing about US schools but had friends there who were happy and I recognized the names. I got 4 interviews, went to 3, accepted to 1 and waitlisted at the others. In the end I realised school in Canada is easily as good as in the US and the few things I liked better in the US are not worth the extra 200K, so I turned down my US acceptance and will be staying in Canada for meds. I wasted alot of money and time learning this. Don't make the same mistake.

No I haven't visited any of the top-15 schools in the US. Hmm, you bring up interesting points. Could you please elaborate on what it was that you expected and how that was different from what you actually found to be the case? What things did you like better in the States?

Also, I don't mean to be annoying but could you please post in the pre-allo thread? 😳 That's where the most traffic seems to be and your points will most definitely add to that discussion!

Thanks again! All feedback is much appreciated.
Monette

 

[):(]

Go to a Canadian school because it is cheaper. UT, Mcgill, UBC, Queens, or any decent Canadian university is just as good as any American university, but AFFORDABLE.

 

[konverse]

monette

i apologize in advance for the harshness of this post but.

you NEED to start thinking straight. it is painfully, painfully obvious that you have a serious issue reconciling your ego here.

and this makes absolutely no sense. you're a premed. you want to be a doctor and NOW YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY.

please re-consider what this word means. opportunity. a real and tangible one. see the problem with university kids is that they believe that grades etc is really what matters. and to some extent it is, but i firmly believe it is what YOU DO and how you do it that can count for more.

so you think you're too good for this canadian school? ok, i can understand that, I'm too good to wear Levi's jeans.

BUT LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY.

this school is giving you A PAIR OF JEANS to wear. i want to commend you for having high personal and professional ambitions of wanting to reach and aim higher towards the better institutions etc (and in this analogy say Diesel, or Paper Denim).

life isn't linear. neither is success. IF YOU WANT TO GET TO THE TOP, PUT YOUR HEAD DOWN AND GET THERE.

but please don't be foolish by defering a year to give it another shot. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE WORLD WILL BRING tomorrow.

your priorities/wishes/hopes/desires could change in a BLINK OF AN EYE and you will be left crying on the street.

re-writing the MCAT and applying etc IS BEHIND YOU NOW. put this positive energy you have bubbling in you towards a running start in med school.

please be smart and start med school in canada come august. canadian medical education is GOOD. and affordable. you will meet the top 15% of all applicants in the country in that entering class. these are FACTS.

also you may want to keep in mind that MED SCHOOL DOES NOT DEFINE YOU.

WHAT DEFINES YOU IS THAT YOU WANT TO BE THE BEST MED STUDENT OUT THERE.

and you will work hard towards it. because that is what you want. you will make it.

this is called PASSION, monette. do you have it in you?

 

[shetland]

this is called PASSION,

beautifully said

 

[Monette]

beautifully said

Indeed. Again I don't mean to be annoying about this, but I've posted a more detailed reply in the pre-allo thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=295306&page=4&pp=25

It's not that I don't love our very own Canadian forum, it's that there's a lot more traffic on pre-allo and this particular decision also involves American schools. 🙂

So keep the responses coming, but I hope you guys can post in the pre-allo thread. 😉

 

[akinf]

I can't believe this is actually a question. From what it seems, you aren't getting too much support from the Canadians, but you are from some of the Americans. This is likely because getting into med. school in Canada is more competitive (%-wise) than in the US. I think by deferring to reapply, you are NOT guaranteed a spot at a top school, and I can't begin to even comprehend why you would want to leave a world-class education (not an exaggeration, Canadian schools are very very good) to gamble at some school with a name in the states. I was speaking with my friends sister who is a PGY-1 in EM, and she told me, Canadians always get sweet fellowships because they know how much better our medical education is. Did you think about that before posting?

 

[Monette]

So apparently you guys really don't like posting in the pre-allo forum.

I can't believe this is actually a question. From what it seems, you aren't getting too much support from the Canadians, but you are from some of the Americans. This is likely because getting into med. school in Canada is more competitive (%-wise) than in the US.

Yes I am aware of this. I alluded to it in the other thread.

I think by deferring to reapply, you are NOT guaranteed a spot at a top school, and I can't begin to even comprehend why you would want to leave a world-class education (not an exaggeration, Canadian schools are very very good) to gamble at some school with a name in the states.

Yes I am well aware there are no guarantees which is why I am DEBATING deferring. And I've addressed my reasons for wanting to defer in the other thread. And I am only talking about deferring. Not rescinding. I didn't really consider that a "gamble" but OK.

I was speaking with my friends sister who is a PGY-1 in EM, and she told me, Canadians always get sweet fellowships because they know how much better our medical education is. Did you think about that before posting?

My friend's sister is not a PGY-1 in EM and I don't know your friend's sister so no, I did not "think" about that before sharing. Not sure that that's something you "think" about, but OK. And really, I was under the impression that only McGill's students were notably successful in garnering fellowships in the States.

Thanks for your feedback - it is greatly appreciated. But seriously, why so hostile? 🙁

Monette

 

[tussy]

When it comes right down to it, you have to make the right decision for YOU, not what is right for everyone else. But, you asked for opinions so I'm goign to give you mine.

First, I am a Canadian surgeon (just finished my general surgery residency and am doing a fellowship currently). I had no interest in goign to the US, so didn't apply, but have seen many others apply to, and get prestigious fellowships in the US with their Canadian training.

Canadian medical schools are all quite good and all give you decent training. That being said - the training is what you put into it. You can get involved in research anywhere (although it is much easier to get a project going at some of the schools, it is still possible everywhere if you are motivated). You can also do electives anywhere as long as you apply early enough and have a strong application (which you will if you work hard, do some extracurriculars in med school and lots of research).

The Canadian school might be just what you need. Instead of being a small fish in a big pond, you could be the big fish in the small pond. You could work hard, do research, distinguish yourself as a class leader, and you could get the residency of your dreams. Also, you will save a bundle of money, finish a year earlier (than if you defer). I say go for it.

However, like is said in the beginning - your decision. Good luck.

 

[akinf]

I guess I was a bit hostile, but it was unintentional. I just think you are really fortunate to have gained entry into med., and the thought of deferring to go to the US just doesn't seem all that smart. I mean, I can't think of any advantages to US training compared to Canadian training. Afterwards, sure, you can work in a private clinic and make millions a year, but I doubt that'd be a reason to go through all of this. I understand it is your decision, but if I were in your shoes (which I doubt I ever would be) I would pick the Canadian school without a second thought.

 

[Monette]

When it comes right down to it, you have to make the right decision for YOU, not what is right for everyone else. But, you asked for opinions so I'm goign to give you mine.

And thanks for that 🙂

First, I am a Canadian surgeon (just finished my general surgery residency and am doing a fellowship currently). I had no interest in goign to the US, so didn't apply, but have seen many others apply to, and get prestigious fellowships in the US with their Canadian training.

Do you mind sharing which schools?

Canadian medical schools are all quite good and all give you decent training. That being said - the training is what you put into it. You can get involved in research anywhere (although it is much easier to get a project going at some of the schools, it is still possible everywhere if you are motivated). You can also do electives anywhere as long as you apply early enough and have a strong application (which you will if you work hard, do some extracurriculars in med school and lots of research).

The Canadian school might be just what you need. Instead of being a small fish in a big pond, you could be the big fish in the small pond. You could work hard, do research, distinguish yourself as a class leader, and you could get the residency of your dreams. Also, you will save a bundle of money, finish a year earlier (than if you defer). I say go for it.

However, like is said in the beginning - your decision. Good luck.

You bring up extremely valid points. I guess my biggest concern is not being happy there. And four years is a long time. But these are all things I will certainly keep in mind. Thanks for your insight. 🙂

Monette

 

[Monette]

I guess I was a bit hostile, but it was unintentional. I just think you are really fortunate to have gained entry into med., and the thought of deferring to go to the US just doesn't seem all that smart. I mean, I can't think of any advantages to US training compared to Canadian training. Afterwards, sure, you can work in a private clinic and make millions a year, but I doubt that'd be a reason to go through all of this. I understand it is your decision, but if I were in your shoes (which I doubt I ever would be) I would pick the Canadian school without a second thought.

No worries. Most people seem to have very strong opinions on this issue. 🙄 And no, I wasn't really considering deferral so I could make millions in the US - I certainly wasn't thinking about the money, let alone that far ahead. Again, thanks for sharing your opinion. 🙂

 

[rush2]

No worries. Most people seem to have very strong opinions on this issue. 🙄 And no, I wasn't really considering deferral so I could make millions in the US - I certainly wasn't thinking about the money, let alone that far ahead. Again, thanks for sharing your opinion. 🙂

i'm surprised no one has brought up the money issue yet. Can you afford the US? cause its hella expensive compared to canadian schools.

you seem reluctant to mention what your "dream" school and "accepted" school are, so i won't ask... but i can assure you that both schools, and any US school, will get you to the exact same place.

sounds like you have a great GPA and great extracurrics and a not-so-hot mcat score. a crapload of the best US applicants with great GPAs and great extracurrics and great mcat scores DON'T get into top 15 schools.

so anyway, the point that i'm doing a bad job at making is this: you got in. congrats. you're awesome. now GO. make the best of it..... remember, you get out what you put in. i really really really don't see the point of putting school off for a year, especially when the odds really aren't in your favour.

anywho. good luck whichever you decide.

 

[konverse]

.

 

[konverse]

monette
as the last time that i'll be posting a reply to this thread.
i must say that this herein lies your problem.
you're seeking advice for a major life decision on an anonymous, public forum. does this make sense? esp the thread on pre-allopathic... that thing is 5 pages long! what i don't understand is why the opinions of people that aren't in med school yet (or at least 75% of them) matter so much to you.
a huge change of mindset comes upon gaining an acceptance to medical school.

my advice to you is this:
if you're still having troubles with this decision, seek out your mentor, a practicing physician or current medical student that you are close with. ask them what the deal is. ask them what really matters. and consider their responses with a lot of weight -- they've been there done that -- that's the reality!

but all in all, it is what u decide.

as one last point, i can say that having done my undergrad at mcgill, i've had some exposure to the different medical schools in and around montreal. and i can understand that each have their own strengths and weaknesses. with this is mind, i believe the responsibility is solely on the student to tap into those strengths and maximize them. if u want a research position with a top clinician at the montreal general, then by all means go for it. <just an example of course>. your school ain't gonna come in the way of that. approach your education with the mindset of learning the most and doing the best and i'm pretty sure you'll be fine.

rock on girl.

 

[Monette]

i'm surprised no one has brought up the money issue yet. Can you afford the US? cause its hella expensive compared to canadian schools.

It was brought up in the pre-allo thread.

you seem reluctant to mention what your "dream" school and "accepted" school are, so i won't ask... but i can assure you that both schools, and any US school, will get you to the exact same place.

A lot of people seem to agree with you on this issue.

sounds like you have a great GPA and great extracurrics and a not-so-hot mcat score. a crapload of the best US applicants with great GPAs and great extracurrics and great mcat scores DON'T get into top 15 schools.

Not-so-hot verbal score. My sciences and writing sample are alright. But yeah, my MCAT is the problem.

so anyway, the point that i'm doing a bad job at making is this: you got in. congrats. you're awesome.

Thanks and likewise 🙂 I'm not feeling particularly awesome right now (heck, I feel like my awesomeness has hit an all-time low 🙁 ), so thanks for that - it definitely cheered me up a little!

now GO. make the best of it..... remember, you get out what you put in. i really really really don't see the point of putting school off for a year, especially when the odds really aren't in your favour.
anywho. good luck whichever you decide.

Again, most people seem to agree with you. The responses have been incredibly one-sided on this issue. I had a hunch of an inkling that most people would deem this deferral issue rather foolish, but I really thought I'd get a few more anecdotal success stories and/or more people at least thinking it's worth a shot. But alas, wishful thinking on my part. Ah well. Oh and as always, thanks for the input. 🙂

 

[docbill]

I don't know what to post about this issue.

If I understood this right... and I could be wrong since I am slow... you got into a great Canadian school (basically all of them), but you want to go to your dream school in the US. So you are thinking to not accepting the offer so you can re-apply at your dream school. IS THIS RIGHT?

I could be harsh.. but I will just say that a "bird in hand is better than two birds in the bushes". "Some of us our born special.. others like me.. have to act as if we are"

 

[tiger_lily]

(I also posted this in the pre-allo thread)...

Yes I am well aware there are no guarantees which is why I am DEBATING deferring. And I've addressed my reasons for wanting to defer in the other thread. And I am only talking about deferring. Not rescinding. I didn't really consider that a "gamble" but OK.

I'm not really familiar with the rest of the Canadian med schools since I only applied to UBC, but I thought a) you have to defer when you apply (ie, you can't defer after you've been accepted) and b) you have to have a really good reason. Perhaps this isn't true with all schools, but I'm pretty sure it's the case at UBC, unless something's changed that I'm not aware of. Have you checked that you can defer at your school this late in the game?

Also, it sounds to me like you've already got your mind made up to reapply, and you're just looking for validation. Which is fine... just don't be surprised when most people (especially people who've applied and been rejected and who would literally do just about anything to have an acceptance in hand) tell you to take what you've been given and thank God or your lucky stars or whom/whatever for this incredible opportunity.

If you're willing to take a year off to apply to the US, part of me wonders why you wouldn't reject your acceptance (I know, I know) if you *really* don't want to go there. You've advised people not to apply before they think they can get in, or to schools they don't want to go to. If you refuse your acceptance, you'd be in the same position you would have been if you hadn't applied, except that a) you know you have a DANG good chance of getting in at this same school as a last resort and b) you can apply to your dream Canadian school (as well as all the US schools you want to). If you're really so concerned about which school you want to go to and/or you don't think you'd be happy at the one you got into, then that's what I'd do. Plus you can take this year and do everything you can't do while you're in med school. I travelled, did the "volunteer in Africa" thing (which was PHENOMENAL and I think everyone should do it!), learned to rock climb and scuba dive, got my motorcycle license, etc. all in the 2 years between U-grad and med school. Taking a year isn't the end of the world.

In the end, forget about everything else, look deep into your heart and ask yourself this question: "Right now, at this moment, would I be happy going to X med school?" (X=the school you've been accepted at). Now, stick with this "gut response" and don't look back. And chances are, if you've been accepted at one Canadian school already, you've got great odds for the next round. Good luck! Let us know what you decide to do 🙂

 

[Monette]

Hi everyone,

Sorry for the late replies. I have been preoccupied with some other stuff this week 🙁 But I won’t get into that - I think I’ve made you guys endure enough of my personal trials and tribulations 🙄 . So… back to business 😳 .

monette
as the last time that i'll be posting a reply to this thread.

Awww, now I'm starting to lose friends on SDN - this is crossing into a new realm of pathetic. Hopefully after reminiscing about the Oh Canada! thread, you'll recall that (although I've always been somewhat of a drama queen 😀 ) I haven't always been such a downer and you'll change your mind and we’ll still be friends 🙂

i must say that this herein lies your problem.
you're seeking advice for a major life decision on an anonymous, public forum. does this make sense? esp the thread on pre-allopathic... that thing is 5 pages long! what i don't understand is why the opinions of people that aren't in med school yet (or at least 75% of them) matter so much to you.
a huge change of mindset comes upon gaining an acceptance to medical school.

You know, I talked to family and a friend who will be matriculating at this same school and they all vehemently discouraged the idea of deferring. The other pre-meds I know are off to the Caribbean or did not get in at all, so you can imagine that I wasn’t going to discuss *this* issue with them. I talked to one other person about this issue which I ended up regretting because I felt like I was whining and complaining while they were graciously listening. So I figured at least on a public forum, people volunteer to answer or chide - it’s not forced. I guess I had no one else to turn to, so I came here. And it’s not so much that these people’s opinions will dictate the course of action I take, but (since this is such an important decision, relatively speaking), I felt like I needed feedback from people who were familiar with the process, at least more so than my family and my non pre-med friends, who I should add also think I’m a nut case. 🙄

my advice to you is this:
if you're still having troubles with this decision, seek out your mentor, a practicing physician or current medical student that you are close with. ask them what the deal is. ask them what really matters. and consider their responses with a lot of weight -- they've been there done that -- that's the reality!

The reason I haven’t talked to my mentor about this is because he is a foreign medical graduate. He will not sympathize. I know most people won’t but he doesn’t really know the process, you know. Maybe I’m not being objective by filtering out the people whose advice will preclude an encouragement towards a deferral. Maybe that should tell me where my heart really is. But right when I start drafting a letter requesting one, I go through the ten thousand reasons a rational human being would have against doing it. Maybe I should post in the allo forum. If I keep this up, omniscient SDN gods err mods are going to ban me by virtue of my being more annoying than the Spice Girls and their Grrrl Powah AND the Macarena combined.

but all in all, it is what u decide.

as one last point, i can say that having done my undergrad at mcgill, i've had some exposure to the different medical schools in and around montreal. and i can understand that each have their own strengths and weaknesses. with this is mind, i believe the responsibility is solely on the student to tap into those strengths and maximize them. if u want a research position with a top clinician at the montreal general, then by all means go for it. <just an example of course>. your school ain't gonna come in the way of that. approach your education with the mindset of learning the most and doing the best and i'm pretty sure you'll be fine.

I know this is such sound advice. You know, I am a level-headed girl with a good head on her shoulders (or at least I like to flatter myself and think so 😛 ) although you wouldn’t gather as much after reading this and the pre-allo threads 😎 . This dilemma has reduced me to an indecisive emotional mess. I hate it, I hate what it has done to me and I hate what I have made others endure because of it 🙁 . I really do know you are giving me sage advice and yet… Yes, yes… There is still a yet.

rock on girl.

Why thank you! You too! After trashing those Levi’s of course 😀 . Just kidding. Oh and just out of curiosity, did the Canadian school come through for you?

 

[Monette]

I don't know what to post about this issue.

If I understood this right... and I could be wrong since I am slow... you got into a great Canadian school (basically all of them), but you want to go to your dream school in the US. So you are thinking to not accepting the offer so you can re-apply at your dream school. IS THIS RIGHT?

I am only considering deferring the offer so I can reapply in the States. My dream school was initially a Canadian school (at that point, I hadn’t even considered/toyed with the idea of going to the States). But since I cannot reapply there if I do defer, I want to apply to schools that would afford me with comparable opportunities, namely top 15 schools in the States.

I could be harsh.. but I will just say that a "bird in hand is better than two birds in the bushes".

HAHA, my parents said the same thing. So I will tell you what I told them: I’m only considering DEFERRING! 😛 If I had a nickel for every time I said that… I could just retire and pull a Warren Buffett and give my money to The Melinda and Bill Gates Foundation. Yes that is how much money I would have accummulated. And yes Bill Gates. 😉

"Some of us our born special.. others like me.. have to act as if we are"

Aww thanks... But dude, everyone is special. You just have to look deep enough. 😍

 

[Monette]

(I also posted this in the pre-allo thread)...

And I posted my reply there so I could bump that thread up 🙂

 

[harvid]

Personally, I don't think that there is anything to be gained by deferring and taking a crack at an American medical school. Why? Because it is just medical school! I know that is a bit of a callous statement, considering how hard people work to get in, but any of the Canadian medical schools will serve you in good stead to get your MD, and an MD that will be held in high regard just about anywhere in the world. But it is only the first step of a long training process. Attending the Canadian medical school won't prevent you from going on to do post-graduate training at a great Canadian or American institution. If anything, residency and fellowship will have more to do with establishing a great specialist career. Once you embark on those phases of your career, nobody ever asks where you did medical school.

Case in point, I applied to Med school at Dal and got in. I rather enjoyed the experience of what was then a new curriculum, but I know that the school by reputation is probably only average in Canada. That said, it launched my career allowing me to get into my neurology residency of choice, followed by a great subspecialty fellowship in the United States. Now I have what I consider my dream job in medical academia.

Take the concrete option you have, rather than gambling. I can guarantee that you won't regret it in the long run. No matter where you start, if you apply yourself, you can do still do later training at one of those top 15 schools (and remember, those top 15 aren't across all specialties; some of the top spots in certain fields aren't in the Ivy League schools).

 

[SMRT]

Obviously a little late here, but I've been away...

I'm kind of curious how this has worked out, mostly because I'd like to know if the OP was successful in getting a deferral. Deferrals from Canadian schools are very rare and I doubt that completing a research project would be an acceptable reason. Usually deferrals for such a reason would be granted only to graduate students who need to finish their thesis and defend. I would be extremely surprised if a school granted a deferral to an undergrad to do research in order to get some pubs.