canadian sdn

[sel]

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I searched a lot and didnt find out which schools as a canadian I can apply?can u please list up your designated schools?

thanks for any reply

 

[Smurf12]

I'm not to fond about the Canadian-applying-to-the-US thing, but I can certainly tell you to avoid applying to states school. State schools are vastly cheaper than private schools, and they barely give out acceptances to OOS(out of state) students. I mean you can try, but if you're low on money AVOID!

I suggest you apply to private schools like NYU, BU, Case, USC, Midwestern, UPenn. Be aware that the competition is still fierce as with ANY other type of dental school. We Americans find it highly offensive when Canadians claim that states schools are easier to get into, they are not as I've worked my @$$ off to get close to this.

Make sure your pre-dent Canadian buddies realize this too.

 

[williamdent]

I'm not to fond about the Canadian-applying-to-the-US thing, but I can certainly tell you to avoid applying to states school.

I suggest you apply to private schools like NYU, BU, Case, USC, Midwestern, UPenn. Be aware that the competition is still fierce as with ANY other type of dental school. We Americans find it highly offensive when Canadians claim that states schools are easier to get into, they are not as I've my @$$ off to get close to this.

Make sure your pre-dent Canadian buddies realize this too.

I don't really understand why you would find this offensive because "easier" is a relative term (it is not the same as something being "easy"). I don't think any sane Canadian actually thinks U.S. dental schools are easy to get accepted into. I agree with you that it's just not ever really 'easy' to get into dental school anywhere. I'm sure there are some naive people from Canada that may think that about the U.S., but they are in the minority when it comes to serious applicants.

Unless you have a 3.8+ (in your 2-3 best years) and a ~20 DAT, you're probably not getting into a dental school in my province of Ontario (we have 2 dental schools). Unfortunately, these 2 schools do not believe in a holistic application review process... for example in one of the dental schools i believe the acceptance formula is 60% GPA 10% DAT and 30% interview (correct me if i'm wrong, haven't looked it up in a while).

You can confirm any suspicion by looking up the GPA range for 2011 entering students for the University of Toronto (one of the two dental schools in my province). In the 2012 ADEA official guide the range is a 3.84 - 4.0. If your suggestion would be to apply to other canadian dental schools outside my province, the problem is that there are no private dental schools in canada and so they are limited in filling seats to out-of-province applications (think of applying to texas dental schools as OOS... they probably have 1 or 2 spots for OOS? or none? not sure, but it's basically the same).

Therefore, I may have a respectable GPA for my last two years (3.7 and 3.9), but in no way is that going to be competitive for my province. Since it's not holistic, they wont see the LoRs/work experience/volunteering that I have ... or my story/journey at all (no personal statement). They just see the numbers and I don't make the cut.

That means it would be easier for me to apply to U.S. private schools (not state schools; simply due to the lack of restrictions when it comes to applicant residency), but that does not mean it is easy to get into them. Based on the way dental schools review applications in my province and my stats, I simply have a more realistic shot at admission if I try to apply in the U.S.

Does that make sense? and please, let's not start a debate about how much easier or harder it is to get grades in one country vs another... it's not productive and gets nowhere. There are easy + medium + difficult schools in both the U.S. and Canada, regardless of grading schemes. I've studied in both the U.S. and Canada and so i'm speaking from personal experience as well.

Hope that clears it up! 🙂

 

[sel]

I am an Ontario residents and 120% agreed with William!! it is just crazy in canada they all see GPA!! and I totally understand the fact i have no shot in state schools!!(thanks for mentioning) my question is just which schoools i should investigate on more!!and definitely it is so hard to get accepted into us schools too, regarding the fact that american dat is harder and us application form is so detailed and hard !! And about the fact that you have better opportunity in your home land to pursue your future career, you should be proud not really get offended! Sure almost all of dental applicants understand that, otherwise we would not desperately looking for ANY schools to get in!

 

[sel]

I don't really understand why you would find this offensive because "easier" is a relative term (it is not the same as something being "easy"). I don't think any sane Canadian actually thinks U.S. dental schools are easy to get accepted into. I agree with you that it's just not ever really 'easy' to get into dental school anywhere. I'm sure there are some naive people from Canada that may think that about the U.S., but they are in the minority when it comes to serious applicants.

Unless you have a 3.8+ (in your 2-3 best years) and a ~20 DAT, you're probably not getting into a dental school in my province of Ontario (we have 2 dental schools). Unfortunately, these 2 schools do not believe in a holistic application review process... for example in one of the dental schools i believe the acceptance formula is 60% GPA 10% DAT and 30% interview (correct me if i'm wrong, haven't looked it up in a while).

You can confirm any suspicion by looking up the GPA range for 2011 entering students for the University of Toronto (one of the two dental schools in my province). In the 2012 ADEA official guide the range is a 3.84 - 4.0. If your suggestion would be to apply to other canadian dental schools outside my province, the problem is that there are no private dental schools in canada and so they are limited in filling seats to out-of-province applications (think of applying to texas dental schools as OOS... they probably have 1 or 2 spots for OOS? or none? not sure, but it's basically the same).

Therefore, I may have a respectable GPA for my last two years (3.7 and 3.9), but in no way is that going to be competitive for my province. Since it's not holistic, they wont see the LoRs/work experience/volunteering that I have ... or my story/journey at all (no personal statement). They just see the numbers and I don't make the cut.

That means it would be easier for my to apply to U.S. private schools (not state schools; simply due to the lack of restrictions when it comes to applicant residency), but that does not mean it is easy to get into them. Based on the way dental schools review applications in my province and my stats, I simply have a more realistic shot at admission if I try to apply in the U.S.

Does that make sense? and please, let's not start a debate about how much easier or harder it is to get grades in one country vs another... it's not productive and gets no where. There are easy + medium + difficult schools in both the U.S. and Canada, regardless of grading schemes. I've studied in both the U.S. and Canada and so i'm speaking from personal experience as well.

Hope that clears it up! 🙂

Can u please let me know of your designated schools?

thanks u!

 

[Smurf12]

To williamdent,

Finally, a Canadian whose done their research, I wish you the best.

But unfortunately with the recent influx of 'what are my chances thread' coming from users like under taker, drbatman, canadiandr, etc. and after reading their posts did I come out quite insulted.

I do understand however, that many of the Canadian dental school can only accommodate between 30-90 students and preference is typically given to in-province students, and it's next to impossible to get in them without stellar 'marks' (grades we Americans would say).

I can't speak for all, but I can safely say that many of us American applicants do not even realize how difficult it is to get into Canadian dental schools. I'm hoping that the next time before any Canadians claim that US school are any easier that they backup their assertions as eloquently as you did.

Best Wishes

 

[williamdent]

To williamdent,

Finally, a Canadian whose done their research, I wish you the best.

But unfortunately with the recent influx of 'what are my chances thread' coming from users like under taker, drbatman, canadiandr, etc. and after reading their posts did I come out quite insulted.

I do understand however, that many of the Canadian dental school can only accommodate between 30-90 students and preference is typically given to in-province students, and it's next to impossible to get in them without stellar 'marks' (grades we Americans would say).

I can't speak for all, but I can safely say that many of us American applicants do not even realize how difficult it is to get into Canadian dental schools. I'm hoping that the next time before any Canadians claim that US school are any easier that they backup their assertions as eloquently as you did.

Best Wishes

Thank you kindly, best wishes to you as well 🙂. I hope your hard work pays off soon!

Can u please let me know of your designated schools?

thanks u!

Sure, i'll P.M. you

 

[valinthorn]

Hi,

I am a Canadian who went to U of T and couldn't agree more with every post here. Our life science curriculum was extremely tough, and it's almost impossible to get in any Canadian schools with 3.8++ GPA. My good friend applied to U of T dental school as a back up more med, but he ended up getting into med school, but not the dental school.

I'll be a D1 this Fall at NYUCD, and I could share my experience with you. I applied very late (took my DAT in November). I thought I wouldn't have a chance, but I was invited for an interview at NYU, USC, BU and Detroit Mercy. Therefore, definitely put those on your list. Some other schools that my Canadian friends got into include Tufts, UPenn, and Case.

Although most of the US schools accept Canadian DAT, I was told that they actually prefer US DAT (my friend applied twice with Canadian DAT and didn't get in. When he switched to US DAT, he got into Upenn and NYU with scholarship).

My stats
cGPA 3.52
Sci GPA: 3.6
DAT: 21
Grad school GPA: 3.69

Best of luck!

 

[sbesbesbe]

Yup, this is the case in Canada and william summed it up pretty well.

BUT I can see where smurf is coming from
recent posts of Canadians asking for what are my chances are just embarrassing...
makes us Canadians look bad but for serious canadian applicants, we know that getting accepted to US dental schools is by no means easy.

cheers~

 

[Mikeanjelo]

I think most posts about "chance me" from Canadians with a 2.7 are trying to see if GPA alone can eliminate them, becuae that's the mentality here in Canada. Like someone with a 3.0 has ZERO chance in Ontario, but in any US school they have a shot if everything else is above average. Like am I wrong?

 

[Stacker]

Case Western loves Canadians!

 

[Stacker]

I think most posts about "chance me" from Canadians with a 2.7 are trying to see if GPA alone can eliminate them, becuae that's the mentality here in Canada. Like someone with a 3.0 has ZERO chance in Ontario, but in any US school they have a shot if everything else is above average. Like am I wrong?

Canadians have to be vastly more competitive than the US applicants who apply to the same school.

 

[Mikeanjelo]

Even at private schools like BU, or NYU?

 

[InMembran]

To williamdent,

Finally, a Canadian whose done their research, I wish you the best.

But unfortunately with the recent influx of 'what are my chances thread' coming from users like under taker, drbatman, canadiandr, etc. and after reading their posts did I come out quite insulted.

I do understand however, that many of the Canadian dental school can only accommodate between 30-90 students and preference is typically given to in-province students, and it's next to impossible to get in them without stellar 'marks' (grades we Americans would say).

I can't speak for all, but I can safely say that many of us American applicants do not even realize how difficult it is to get into Canadian dental schools. I'm hoping that the next time before any Canadians claim that US school are any easier that they backup their assertions as eloquently as you did.

Best Wishes

Dude..just admit that it's easier to get into American dental schools. It's a FACT. You should not ever be insulted, because it's true. You just gotta take it. If you have GPA below 3.8, you have NO chance getting into Canadian school, but to American schools, that mark is more than enough to get in.

 

[tomhrxbfg]

Yea, I graduated from UofT and in Ontario I would have no chance ...

 

[williamdent]

Dude..just admit that it's easier to get into American dental schools. It's a FACT. You should not ever be insulted, because it's true. You just gotta take it. If you have GPA below 3.8, you have NO chance getting into Canadian school, but to American schools, that mark is more than enough to get in.

Woah, slow down there. Due to the different ways that applications are processed in canada vs the U.S., there are a lot of factors you have to take into consideration before trying to decide where you are considered competitive.

For example, if some Canadian takes most of their dental prerequisites in first or second year and does fairly average (e.g. C+ and B's) they can still get a 3.85+ in their top 2-3 years if they fill them with easy 'bird' courses. In this case, your top 2-3 years are stellar but does it really reflect your ability to do well in dental school? no because you probably took a course where you got to watch videos for half of the year.

If that student does alright on the DAT (18+), they still have a great shot at an interview in Ontario because their top 2-3 years are 3.85+... but if they were to apply to most U.S. dental schools you would probably have little to no chance getting an interview. The U.S. schools would look at:
- your low BCP GPA
- few BCP hours
- high non-science GPA (3.8+) with mediocre science GPA (2.9?)
- trend in your GPA (your GPA is only high when you take a limited amount of science courses)
- your LoRs (you better have amazing science LoRs)
- volunteering (hopefully you didn't just bank on Canadian schools which don't require it)
- personal statement (no generic "i want to be a dentist so I can help people)
- work experience
- research experience

Overall, why would an american school take you if they see that when it comes to the sciences... you are not anywhere near the acceptable range. Yet, this is a student who has a great shot at Canadian dental schools (at least the ones in Ontario).

It depends on your situation, so let's not turn this into something nasty and agree that there's more to it than just "_____ dental schools are easy", which is not going to be true for everyone... therefore incorrect to say.

 

[mike ashley]

At the very least all canadians should have to take the american DAT and all prereqs should be completed at an american university; they should be held to the same standards as all other international students.

".....Give me your tired, your poor...."

Ah yes, only in america....enjoy it while it lasts and stop complaining.

 

[InMembran]

Woah, slow down there. Due to the different ways that applications are processed in canada vs the U.S., there are a lot of factors you have to take into consideration before trying to decide where you are considered competitive.

For example, if some Canadian takes most of their dental prerequisites in first or second year and does fairly average (e.g. C+ and B's) they can still get a 3.85+ in their top 2-3 years if they fill them with easy 'bird' courses. In this case, your top 2-3 years are stellar but does it really reflect your ability to do well in dental school? no because you probably took a course where you got to watch videos for half of the year.

If that student does alright on the DAT (18+), they still have a great shot at an interview in Ontario because their top 2-3 years are 3.85+... but if they were to apply to most U.S. dental schools you would probably have little to no chance getting an interview. The U.S. schools would look at:
- your low BCP GPA
- few BCP hours
- high non-science GPA (3.8+) with mediocre science GPA (2.9?)
- trend in your GPA (your GPA is only high when you take a limited amount of science courses)
- your LoRs (you better have amazing science LoRs)
- volunteering (hopefully you didn't just bank on Canadian schools which don't require it)
- personal statement (no generic "i want to be a dentist so I can help people)
- work experience
- research experience

Overall, why would an american school take you if they see that when it comes to the sciences... you are not anywhere near the acceptable range. Yet, this is a student who has a great shot at Canadian dental schools (at least the ones in Ontario).

It depends on your situation, so let's not turn this into something nasty and agree that there's more to it than just "_____ dental schools are easy", which is not going to be true for everyone... therefore incorrect to say.

First of all, your math is wrong. There are so much courses to take, you can't get 3.85+ with 2.9 GPA in science while others being 4.0. You HAVE to take pre-requisites which may take up to half of your courses. And I don't know which schools actually have a course that show you videos for one semeser, but if it does, that would be a school I would never attend. We are talking about schools like Toronto, Western, McGill etc. Getting 3.85 GPA in any of these schools without taking science courses is also hard. You are now insulting people who do not take science courses. Also, you say American Dental Schools look at various stuffs. Well true, but how much of importance they put on other stuff? The FIRST THING they look at is ur GPA + DAT. Yes you can have tons of research and work experience, but that only matters when it comes to interview. So, I can firmly say that CANADIAN SCHOOLS ARE HARDER THAN AMERICAN SCHOOLS NO MATTER IN WHAT SITUATION YOU ARE IN. One last thing, tell me about tuition. You know the answer.

 

[williamdent]

First of all, your math is wrong. There are so much courses to take, you can't get 3.85+ with 2.9 GPA in science while others being 4.0.

It was a hypothetical situation under which the assumption is that the student isn't taking more than 1 science course during their top 2 years. Basically, my point was that your science GPA (or let's make it a little more plausible and say BPC GPA which wouldn't include random science bird courses either) can be very different than your GPA for your top 2 years. Again, in my situation your top 2 years would be filled with bird courses (religious studies, history, art, etc...)

science GPA would not include any of the non-science courses so a 3.85+ in your top 2 years won't significantly affect the 2.9 sGPA.

You HAVE to take pre-requisites which may take up to half of your courses.

Yes, you take most of them during your first year (all your bio/chem/physics + labs). You can take physio/biochem during second year along with 1 english per semester. You can also choose to tackle 1 or 2 other bio prereqs in the summer after 1st year (e.g. genetics) + organic chemistry in the summer of second year.

How many hardcore bio prereqs are left now for your 3rd and 4th year in this situation?

P.S. This is not out of nowhere, btw. I know people with similar situations to this hypothetical one that are D1s and D3s in UofT dental school right now.

And I don't know which schools actually have a course that show you videos for one semeser, but if it does, that would be a school I would never attend. We are talking about schools like Toronto, Western, McGill etc. Getting 3.85 GPA in any of these schools without taking science courses is also hard. You are now insulting people who do not take science courses.

There are theatre/film courses available at almost every university.

I did not intend to insult anyone, I never said that all non-bio classes are easy! I was saying that there are non-bio courses you can take that generally boost most people's GPA (if you put in some good effort). Comparing these courses to something like microbiology, it would be easier to attain an A.

Also, you say American Dental Schools look at various stuffs. Well true, but how much of importance they put on other stuff? The FIRST THING they look at is ur GPA + DAT. Yes you can have tons of research and work experience, but that only matters when it comes to interview.

It depends on the school, but there are many great american dental schools that pride themselves in looking at applications in a holistic manner. Also, if you've ever actually applied to the U.S. you could look at your electronic application and see that the first page is almost like a mini-resume which shows not just your GPA + DAT... but your volunteer/work/research experiences (total hours and names). Also, your GPA is broken down so that they don't just see your overall GPA. They also have your non-science GPA, science GPA, biology GPA, chemistry GPA, physics GPA, BCP (bio + chem + physics) GPA and the total credit hours for each of those GPA calculations all on the very first page.

Thus, it's hard for a school that has your application to not see all these things even though you say they only look at your GPA + DAT first. Therefore, i'm not sure I agree with you at all that the experiences only matter during the interview (although that is definitely where you can expand on your experiences).

So, I can firmly say that CANADIAN SCHOOLS ARE HARDER THAN AMERICAN SCHOOLS NO MATTER IN WHAT SITUATION YOU ARE IN.

Once again, I disagree. As I stated previously, "It depends on your situation, so let's not turn this into something nasty and agree that there's more to it than just "_____ dental schools are easy", which is not going to be true for everyone... therefore incorrect to say."

One last thing, tell me about tuition. You know the answer.

Yes, tuition is more expensive in the states for Canadians. At a private school you expect higher tuition, though. The upside is that the pricey tuition is usually paired with amazing facilities (usually!).

 

[InMembran]

It was a hypothetical situation under which the assumption is that the student isn't taking more than 1 science course during their top 2 years. Basically, my point was that your science GPA (or let's make it a little more plausible and say BPC GPA which wouldn't include random science bird courses either) can be very different than your GPA for your top 2 years. Again, in my situation your top 2 years would be filled with bird courses (religious studies, history, art, etc...)

science GPA would not include any of the non-science courses so a 3.85+ in your top 2 years won't significantly affect the 2.9 sGPA.

Yes, you take most of them during your first year (all your bio/chem/physics + labs). You can take physio/biochem during second year along with 1 english per semester. You can also choose to tackle 1 or 2 other bio prereqs in the summer after 1st year (e.g. genetics) + organic chemistry in the summer of second year.

How many hardcore bio prereqs are left now for your 3rd and 4th year in this situation?

P.S. This is not out of nowhere, btw. I know people with similar situations to this hypothetical one that are D1s and D3s in UofT dental school right now.

There are theatre/film courses available at almost every university.

I did not intend to insult anyone, I never said that all non-bio classes are easy! I was saying that there are non-bio courses you can take that generally boost most people's GPA (if you put in some good effort). Comparing these courses to something like microbiology, it would be easier to attain an A.

It depends on the school, but there are many great american dental schools that pride themselves in looking at applications in a holistic manner. Also, if you've ever actually applied to the U.S. you could look at your electronic application and see that the first page is almost like a mini-resume which shows not just your GPA + DAT... but your volunteer/work/research experiences (total hours and names). Also, your GPA is broken down so that they don't just see your overall GPA. They also have your non-science GPA, science GPA, biology GPA, chemistry GPA, physics GPA, BCP (bio + chem + physics) GPA and the total credit hours for each of those GPA calculations all on the very first page.

Thus, it's hard for a school that has your application to not see all these things even though you say they only look at your GPA + DAT first. Therefore, i'm not sure I agree with you at all that the experiences only matter during the interview (although that is definitely where you can expand on your experiences).

Once again, I disagree. As I stated previously, "It depends on your situation, so let's not turn this into something nasty and agree that there's more to it than just "_____ dental schools are easy", which is not going to be true for everyone... therefore incorrect to say."


Yes, tuition is more expensive in the states for Canadians. At a private school you expect higher tuition, though. The upside is that the pricey tuition is usually paired with amazing facilities (usually!).

Once again, I disagree. As I stated previously, "It does not depend on your situation, so let's turn this into something nasty and agree that there's no more to it than just "Canadian dental schools are hard", which is going to be true for everyone... therefore correct to say." 🙂

 

[Smurf12]

To williamdent,

You've done enough here. I can assure that you'll become a great dentist one day if not better (I'll be saddened if you don't make it.) Just from reading your posts on this thread, I can tell that you've went on a limb in an attempt to reeducate certain ethnocentric individuals of whom we've unfortunately encountered.

As with any stressful dental applicant the stress levels will be exceedingly high especially in these times. Trust me, haters are going to hate. The last thing we need to deal with is these types of people. We'll definitely need a good laugh while waiting for interviews/acceptances. So come and join me and hopefully legions of other predents as well on this thread: Funny quotes from "less informed" predent edition it'll be a blast!

Best Wishes, you'll make it there!

 

[Dentist wannabe]

I must admit Canadian schools are extremely difficult to get into. I have a 3.9165 GPA based on the American system, and didn't even interview at University of Toronto. I got into Western, but that's just because I had almost perfect GPA ( 4.20) in those two years. My DAT was also 22AA.


I also don't get the notion that non-science courses are easier than science. For me it's been Science that's easier, partly because I hate writing essays. Does anyone else have the same feeling?

 

[casiouser]

Total second the post above, Canadian schools are much more competitive; especially since anyone who dares to apply has a 3.90+, so we all know we need our DATs, ECs, LOE, etc top notch as well to actually stand out!! And i also agree with the sGPA vs non sGPA, my sGPA was actually higher than my cGPA. sGPA, using AADSAS was 4.04, and cGPA was 3.98....stupid English and psychology courses only A- and As I'v gotten aha

 

[doc toothache]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=907493
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=910566
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=568870

 

[Ostracized]

Interestingly, 4 years ago I got into UofT dentistry with basically the same stats as you. It keeps getting harder. Beware working in Toronto after graduating from NYU - you'll have a tough time with those student loan payments.

Hi,

I am a Canadian who went to U of T and couldn't agree more with every post here. Our life science curriculum was extremely tough, and it's almost impossible to get in any Canadian schools with 3.8++ GPA. My good friend applied to U of T dental school as a back up more med, but he ended up getting into med school, but not the dental school.

I'll be a D1 this Fall at NYUCD, and I could share my experience with you. I applied very late (took my DAT in November). I thought I wouldn't have a chance, but I was invited for an interview at NYU, USC, BU and Detroit Mercy. Therefore, definitely put those on your list. Some other schools that my Canadian friends got into include Tufts, UPenn, and Case.

Although most of the US schools accept Canadian DAT, I was told that they actually prefer US DAT (my friend applied twice with Canadian DAT and didn't get in. When he switched to US DAT, he got into Upenn and NYU with scholarship).

My stats
cGPA 3.52
Sci GPA: 3.6
DAT: 21
Grad school GPA: 3.69

Best of luck!