Can't close the deal...

[uptoolate]

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Hey there,
Anyone out there unable to "close" the Ph.D? I'm having an unbelievably hard time sitting down and writing- I've even considered getting tested for ADD. Am I crazy?

 

[BDavis]

Hey there,
Anyone out there unable to "close" the Ph.D? I'm having an unbelievably hard time sitting down and writing- I've even considered getting tested for ADD. Am I crazy?

I am in a similar situation to you. I have written 2 papers and I am writing a third one now over the past year (writing for me is really boring and I get distracted; I even disconnect the ethernet cord or remove my wireless card to prevent me from accessing the internet). I am also trying to finish my thesis at the same time. No matter how hard I try, the introductions to the all the papers sound very similar to me and I can't remember if I used a particular phrase in the first paper or the second paper. However, I manage to get some writing done everyday by rotating where I write (i.e. Barnes and Noble, library, home, lab ...) All the papers I need are saved as PDF files and if I need more references, I just write a note so when I connect to the internet I download the PDF files and entries directly into Endnote. You may not have ADD (I'm not a doctor though), but rather suffer from boredom of writing.

 

[EvoDevo]

I am in a similar situation to you. I have written 2 papers and I am writing a third one now over the past year (writing for me is really boring and I get distracted; I even disconnect the ethernet cord or remove my wireless card to prevent me from accessing the internet). I am also trying to finish my thesis at the same time. No matter how hard I try, the introductions to the all the papers sound very similar to me and I can't remember if I used a particular phrase in the first paper or the second paper. However, I manage to get some writing done everyday by rotating where I write (i.e. Barnes and Noble, library, home, lab ...) All the papers I need are saved as PDF files and if I need more references, I just write a note so when I connect to the internet I download the PDF files and entries directly into Endnote. You may not have ADD (I'm not a doctor though), but rather suffer from boredom of writing.

Yep. What you said. To the letter.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I am in a similar situation to you. I have written 2 papers and I am writing a third one now over the past year (writing for me is really boring and I get distracted; I even disconnect the ethernet cord or remove my wireless card to prevent me from accessing the internet). I am also trying to finish my thesis at the same time. No matter how hard I try, the introductions to the all the papers sound very similar to me and I can't remember if I used a particular phrase in the first paper or the second paper. However, I manage to get some writing done everyday by rotating where I write (i.e. Barnes and Noble, library, home, lab ...) All the papers I need are saved as PDF files and if I need more references, I just write a note so when I connect to the internet I download the PDF files and entries directly into Endnote. You may not have ADD (I'm not a doctor though), but rather suffer from boredom of writing.

Yo BDavis,

Can't you just cut and paste your manuscripts into your thesis? That's literally what I did. I had 3 publications and one in press and a review article when it was time for me to start writing. The intro chapter ended up being the first half of the review article; the conclusions chapter ended up being the last half of the review article (you know, the part where you throw up models and do your magical hand waving ). The chapters in between were my manuscripts VERBATIM (each with its own abstract, intro, M&M, results, discussion, and references).

They gotta let you do that; they gotta help a brutha out?!? Anything else would be just inhumane! 🙂 I hope you can just cut and paste your manuscripts/publications as your data chapters. The intro and conclusion chapters can be short.

 

[BDavis]

Yo BDavis,

Can't you just cut and paste your manuscripts into your thesis? That's literally what I did. I had 3 publications and one in press and a review article when it was time for me to start writing.

Believe me I tried; I think my advisor would like me to put "some effort" into writing a thesis (that I think no one will read except for the Material and Methods). However, I used the titles of each paper for chapters and the subheadings of the papers for the subheadings in the chapter.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Believe me I tried; I think my advisor would like me to put "some effort" into writing a thesis (that I think no one will read except for the Material and Methods). However, I used the titles of each paper for chapters and the subheadings of the papers for the subheadings in the chapter.

That's unfortunate...I feel for you.

Writing a thesis isn't gonna make you more prepared for what's to come. You've already done the work...you've written the papers! What an outrage.

 

[Treg]

Yo BDavis,

Can't you just cut and paste your manuscripts into your thesis? That's literally what I did. I had 3 publications and one in press and a review article when it was time for me to start writing. The intro chapter ended up being the first half of the review article; the conclusions chapter ended up being the last half of the review article (you know, the part where you throw up models and do your magical hand waving ). The chapters in between were my manuscripts VERBATIM (each with its own abstract, intro, M&M, results, discussion, and references).

They gotta let you do that; they gotta help a brutha out?!? Anything else would be just inhumane! 🙂 I hope you can just cut and paste your manuscripts/publications as your data chapters. The intro and conclusion chapters can be short.

I totally agree, and that is what I plan on doing. I know most people do that, since they have already passed peer-review. Who is going to criticize that? Also, above all, my supervisor always says, "it is your thesis. You have the decision-making power in the end." I will have one additional chapter dedicated to the 3 years I spent making Tg mice that failed. Fun stuff. 😱

Treg

 

[Fixed Gear]

I will have one additional chapter dedicated to the 3 years I spent making Tg mice that failed. Fun stuff. 😱

I am in the process of crossing some mice to get bi-allelic floxed animals to be mated to an RTK-Cre line. I wasn't nervous....UNTIL NOW, TREG!

*shakes fist and leers in general direction of Canada*

 

[Treg]

Ahh, the perils of transgenic mice. I for one will never set up a line again. 8 attempts, 600+ mice screened, mucho failure. I have had enough bad luck for the both of us! Treg

 

[Fixed Gear]

Ahh, the perils of transgenic mice. I for one will never set up a line again. 8 attempts, 600+ mice screened, mucho failure. I have had enough bad luck for the both of us! Treg

I am optimistic: Another student in my lab knocked out a receptor and got an interesting (embryonic lethal) phenotype. However, he knocked out one of a family of three, possibly attenuating the effect. The receptors all phosporylate a single protein to signal to the nucleus. I am knocking out said 'shared' protein. I expect my phenotype to be emb. lethal and likely more severe than my fellow students.

But.....we'll see.

 

[BDavis]

I totally agree, and that is what I plan on doing. I know most people do that, since they have already passed peer-review. Who is going to criticize that? Also, above all, my supervisor always says, "it is your thesis. You have the decision-making power in the end." I will have one additional chapter dedicated to the 3 years I spent making Tg mice that failed. Fun stuff. 😱

Treg

I have learned that to finish graduate school you have to really be pro-active (i.e. you have to get all the paperwork done with necessary signatures, fill out MTA forms, order your own reagents, set up committee meetings and write the manuscripts yourself). However for whatever reason, my committee has chosen to taken a moral stand to make it a requirement that I have one more first author paper accepted and another one submitted (I already have one first author paper and two second author papers) so I suspect this thesis wrangling is related to trying to stall me for time. I worked on Tg mice that were perinatal lethal so we are trying to make a tissue specific inducible transgene and I think my advisor would also like me to set up the groundwork for those mice too. When you this close to getting the Ph.D. they can basically make you do anything to finish.

 

[Treg]

I have learned that to finish graduate school you have to really be pro-active (i.e. you have to get all the paperwork done with necessary signatures, fill out MTA forms, order your own reagents, set up committee meetings and write the manuscripts yourself). However for whatever reason, my committee has chosen to taken a moral stand to make it a requirement that I have one more first author paper accepted and another one submitted (I already have one first author paper and two second author papers) so I suspect this thesis wrangling is related to trying to stall me for time. I worked on Tg mice that were perinatal lethal so we are trying to make a tissue specific inducible transgene and I think my advisor would also like me to set up the groundwork for those mice too. When you this close to getting the Ph.D. they can basically make you do anything to finish.

I totally agree about being proactive. In terms of the authorship thing, I know that for my dept we have to have 3 first-author papers for a PhD. Now I would imagine that two second authors should cancel out one of those three, but that is just my opinion. You should check with your graduate studies administration (here in canada for the whole university it is called the faculty of graduate studies) to see the true requirements to defend your thesis. I know that I have to have one first-author accepted to defend, although of course I need the other two pretty close to being accepted. I would flat out refuse to set up mice that were not necessary for me to complete my thesis. That takes a lot of time and effort with no reward, unless they have a phenotype and you are guaranteed co-authorship. Just my 0.02 though 🙂

Treg

 

[BDavis]

I totally agree about being proactive. In terms of the authorship thing, I know that for my dept we have to have 3 first-author papers for a PhD. Treg

For our committees, they look at the quality of the journals in which we publish rather than a quantitative number (although at least 1 is the minimum). Some students have graduates with 1 Cell or Mol Cell paper, whereas others have had 5-6 papers in more clinical journals. However the committee seems to follow what the advisor goes with. I don't really want to argue with my advisor so I just do what he wants so I can graduate.

 

[Treg]

Hmmm, I feel like BDavis and I are having a conversation in every forum 🙂

Treg

 

[b&ierstiefel]

For our committees, they look at the quality of the journals in which we publish rather than a quantitative number (although at least 1 is the minimum). Some students have graduates with 1 Cell or Mol Cell paper, whereas others have had 5-6 papers in more clinical journals. However the committee seems to follow what the advisor goes with. I don't really want to argue with my advisor so I just do what he wants so I can graduate.

At our institution we have stupid unwritten rules like that 3-paper rule. It's all bogus. Your thesis adviser wears the daddy pants and if he says defend, you're defending!