Can't find any good research opportunities as an IMG.

[VCorp]

Since the end of MS2 I had my mind set on taking time off during my 3rd year and applying for a research fellowship. I wanted to apply for the 12 month NIH medical research program. The application opened up 2 weeks ago, and I was super stoked about applying.

I guess in the moment of happiness of applying, I didn't realize they want students from LCME accredited schools only. I did more research of other opportunities and came to this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=475894

I looked at those other programs, and basically students that are applying need to have gone to a LCME accredited school. I can't believe this is happening to me. All I can think of is what I would give to go back in time, and correct my mistakes. Feels like not working hard in college, not being an AMG is all falling down on me like a pile of bricks.

I was emotionally and mentally prepared to take a year off, and now I didn't even make it as far as applying for any of the programs. I know I can do a research elective, but what can one accomplish in 4 to 8 weeks?

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[WaylonS]

Since the end of MS2 I had my mind set on taking time off during my 3rd year and applying for a research fellowship. I wanted to apply for the 12 month NIH medical research program. The application opened up 2 weeks ago, and I was super stoked about applying.

I guess in the moment of happiness of applying, I didn't realize they want students from LCME accredited schools only. I did more research of other opportunities and came to this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=475894

I looked at those other programs, and basically students that are applying need to have gone to a LCME accredited school. I can't believe this is happening to me. All I can think of is what I would give to go back in time, and correct my mistakes. Feels like not working hard in college, not being an AMG is all falling down on me like a pile of bricks.

I was emotionally and mentally prepared to take a year off, and now I didn't even make it as far as applying for any of the programs. I know I can do a research elective, but what can one accomplish in 4 to 8 weeks?

1. Are you a US Citizen?

2. Are you at a Caribbean school?

3. What field are you interested in?

If you give us some more details, i'm sure we can point you in the right direction 🙂

 

[VCorp]

1. Are you a US Citizen?

2. Are you at a Caribbean school?

3. What field are you interested in?

If you give us some more details, i'm sure we can point you in the right direction 🙂

Thanks for the response. 👍

1. Yup
2. I was at a Caribbean school for the course work (not one of the big 4, if it makes a difference), but now I'm in Chicago for rotations.
3. I haven't decided this yet. I like everything, so something that can let me incorporate everything I've learned. Cliche answer probably, but just being honest.

 

[WaylonS]

Thanks for the response. 👍

1. Yup
2. I was at a Caribbean school for the course work (not one of the big 4, if it makes a difference), but now I'm in Chicago for rotations.
3. I haven't decided this yet. I like everything, so something that can let me incorporate everything I've learned. Cliche answer probably, but just being honest.

Not knowing what you want to go into is probably going to be an issue, however, since you're a US citizen, at least you won't have to worry about visa issues

The nice thing about the NIH MRSP and the Doris Duke, when it existed, is that they understand med students half-way through the third year don't know what they want to go into, so they don't require you to commit to a specific project. Unfortunately, Doris Duke no longer exists (well, not in its previous, larger form), and, as you stated, the MRSP apparently only takes LCME students (when I interviewed last year, all the students were from LCME schools--except for 1 vet student--and the majority were third year students).

The other big options (Sarnoff, Fogarty, Fulbright, and HHMI-MRF), more or less, require you to have a specific mentor and project identified (i.e. you would have to know what field you want to enter). However, the Fulbright and Fogarty applications are due in like 2 days, so they aren't options, and the Sarnoff and HHMI-MRF require applicants to be enrolled in American schools.

So, if you are sure you want to take a year off, it might be best to first figure out what field you want to go into, then email PIs around Chicago in that field to see if they'll sponsor you for a year. Additionally, once you know which field you want to go into, you can start visiting the websites of residency programs in that field to see if they sponsor a funded research year.

Another option--if they still exist--is to do a pathology year. Basically, these programs allow med students to take a year off to work/learn pathology. Most of the programs are all clinical, but some of them are more flexible in regards to how many weeks/months you can dedicate to pure research. My understanding--and this may not be true--is that when pathology was a five year residency, if a student did one of these years before graduating med school, they could reduce the length of the path residency to four years. When pathology became a four year residency, these research/work years became less popular and have all but disappeared.

Finally, I think you need to ask yourself: why do you want to do a research year? Is it because you need a break? Are you interested in having a research career? Are you doing this to increase your chances of matching?

 

[VCorp]

Thanks for that awesome and detailed write up. I really do appreciate the information you provided. I can't believe I'm stuck in this situation. I just feel that I wasted my golden years by not working hard and now I'm paying for it. I would honestly do anything to turn back time 10 years ago to when I was 18 and not make the same mistakes. Going into medicine, just gave me a whole different outlook on the well being of ourselves and others.

I want to get into research to make a difference and make an impact in the field of medicine. I got a second chance and got accepted to a Caribbean school - I'm grateful for that. I see some classmates and friends that want to get into medicine because of the lifestyle, pay, and other perks. I won't lie, those features also made me gravitate towards the field. However, I enjoyed learning the material, reading literature on pubmed, having group sessions - I didn't want to half-ass this opportunity. I was going to be considered a healer and wanted to be the absolute best.

The more and more I studied, the more and more I wanted to get involved in research. Just the idea of potentially contributing to the field, seems like a dream come true. Being able to provide and share your findings and being able to expand the knowledge on a certain pathology just fascinates me. Of course, I know that not all projects are successful, but that should be expected. This is the main reason why I want to do research. Being able to take a break or increasing my chances of matching are just icing on the cake. I've met students who did "research" but absolutely don't know anything about what they did, what they were trying to find, etc etc.

What a waste of space and time, especially when I'm here and willing to take their spot and put 100% into it. As per your question, I am interested in general surgery. I just didn't want to post it publicly. Ideally, I'd like to have a practice and provide probono work on the side by going on mission trips to South America or the motherland (India) and help out those who need it. My cousin is an Opthamologist in London, and she does this every winter (& it gives her an excuse to leave the cold - lol). How amazing is it, to help a poor child and giving them the ability to see properly - remarkable if you ask me.

 

[WaylonS]

Thanks for that awesome and detailed write up. I really do appreciate the information you provided. I can't believe I'm stuck in this situation. I just feel that I wasted my golden years by not working hard and now I'm paying for it. I would honestly do anything to turn back time 10 years ago to when I was 18 and not make the same mistakes. Going into medicine, just gave me a whole different outlook on the well being of ourselves and others.

I want to get into research to make a difference and make an impact in the field of medicine. I got a second chance and got accepted to a Caribbean school - I'm grateful for that. I see some classmates and friends that want to get into medicine because of the lifestyle, pay, and other perks. I won't lie, those features also made me gravitate towards the field. However, I enjoyed learning the material, reading literature on pubmed, having group sessions - I didn't want to half-ass this opportunity. I was going to be considered a healer and wanted to be the absolute best.

The more and more I studied, the more and more I wanted to get involved in research. Just the idea of potentially contributing to the field, seems like a dream come true. Being able to provide and share your findings and being able to expand the knowledge on a certain pathology just fascinates me. Of course, I know that not all projects are successful, but that should be expected. This is the main reason why I want to do research. Being able to take a break or increasing my chances of matching are just icing on the cake. I've met students who did "research" but absolutely don't know anything about what they did, what they were trying to find, etc etc.

What a waste of space and time, especially when I'm here and willing to take their spot and put 100% into it. As per your question, I am interested in general surgery. I just didn't want to post it publicly. Ideally, I'd like to have a practice and provide probono work on the side by going on mission trips to South America or the motherland (India) and help out those who need it. My cousin is an Opthamologist in London, and she does this every winter (& it gives her an excuse to leave the cold - lol). How amazing is it, to help a poor child and giving them the ability to see properly - remarkable if you ask me.

OK, here are my thoughts

1. Have you done basic research before, and if so, has it been for an extended period of time? Many PIs will be reticent to take you if you have little to no experience. Besides, if you haven't spent time in the trenches, basic research looks a hell of a lot more glorious than it is. Don't fool yourself: a fair amount of basic research that gets published in useless, and more often than not, good research gets overlooked. Basic science is a dog-eat-dog world, and as NIH budgets shrink every year, the competition is getting more and more fierce. I'm not saying that you shouldn't pursue research, and I'm not saying that your intentions aren't noble, but the cards are heavily stacked against you. Hell, the cards are stacked against MD, PhDs with excellent credentials and good project proposals.

2. You want to do gen surg, and you want to do medical missions, and you want to do research. This is like Peter Griffin being an astronaut-cowboy-millionaire. Yes, some physicians can do this, but they are in the minority. Logistically, most surgeons do not have basic research labs, and the ones that do collaborate extensively with non-surgeon physicians and PhDs. Besides, it's difficult to run a lab--or even collaborate--if you're gone half the year. Besides, logistically again, getting a gen surg spot as an FMG is not an easy path. I think your intentions to help people in the developing world are wonderful, and honestly, if you want to help people, being a good physician and doing volunteer work is likely to have more of an impact than writing papers on an obscure topic that may or may not ever be useful.

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/ipickedonyou/16482833/1396/1396_original.jpg

3. If you are still interested in research, you might want to consider clinical research: you don't need as much training, the time/financial commitment is usually (but not always) as great, and the results are usually applicable/can help people far more often than basic research

4. Finally, and this is my own two cents, you talk about regrets and bad decisions you've made in the past, and I don't mean to tear you down, but I don't think taking a year off to start doing basic research, given your career goals, is necessarily the best move. If I were you, I would try to find and get involved with an ongoing surgical clinical research project at a hospital in Chicago. Not only will you get a chance to see if research is a good fit, but as an FMG interested in surgery, having some research experience will give you a much needed boost.

Good luck

 

[evilbooyaa]

I would recommend that you, as a Carribean student interested in General Surgery should do a clinical research project in whichever Chicago hospital you are rotating at. Ask your interns/chiefs/attendings about any possible research project that needs some man hours. I would not recommend doing basic science research for Gen surg because:
1) You are a Carribbean student. Every year you don't enter the match, the match will become more difficult for you. Focus on graduating from school in your scheduled year.
2) I don't know what basic science research in General Surgery even means.

 

[mycatishuge]

Focus on clinical learning and ace the boards. Try to get great letters from surgeons you rotate with. You have all your professional life to do research. Even if you do a ton of research, you are not going to be competitve forplaces like Penn and Brigham that look to recruit future academic surgeons. Your best shot would be commity programs and even there categorical spots at great community programs are going to be a reach. Community orograms dont care if you did some research. They likely wont even want you to take two years off for research during residency, Remember, your first priority is to secure your future by landing a good residency spot. Program directors look for good clinicians. Single-mindedly focus on that.

 

[Moty]

BUMP.

Although l'll be an African IMG not until 2022, I prefer planning much ahead.

I was emotionally and mentally prepared to take a year off, and now I didn't even make it as far as applying for any of the programs. I know I can do a research elective, but what can one accomplish in 4 to 8 weeks?

I'd like a full update, especially on that, if you don't mind.

If I were you, I would try to find and get involved with an ongoing surgical clinical research project at a hospital in Chicago. Not only will you get a chance to see if research is a good fit, but as an FMG interested in surgery, having some research experience will give you a much needed boost.

At what value, if any, do residency program directors place research done by an IMG in his country? How many publications are enough to be competitive in GS? What is, in your estimation, range in hours to complete a competitive research for GS residency?

1) You are a Carribbean student. Every year you don't enter the match, the match will become more difficult for you. Focus on graduating from school in your scheduled year.

I didn't know not matching in the past affects future chances to match! Thanks for that. I'll be less ambitious on my residency choice to avoid this.