Can't understand this

[Medstudentquest]

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Oh, and the reason I asked...

Nobody "simply" doesnt like anything. Theres always a reason.

I dont like OB... I dont like the screaming, I dont like the mess, I dont want to involve myself in the social/ethical issues, I dont care to master the physiology of pregnancy and delivery.
I really liked gyn... I like the surgery, I like treating cancer in young people, I like the continuity of care from the clinic to the OR, I like the endocrine physiology...
I would never want to do OB

I dont like FP... I'm not keen on the responsibilty of having a gi-normous breadth of knowledge about OB, Peds, gyn, Medicine, geriatrics.... and then not having the depth of knowledge.
But... I like knowing a bit about everything...
Dont really want to do FP either....

See the difference?

1-I don't have to give you an explanation of why I don't like certain fields
2-You are very cocky to be a medical student-you act like you are the head of neurosurg at Harvard
3-If you cared to have read my posts, you would already know why i chose derm

rather you just spout insults and judgments. i don't judge those who decide to go into ortho. is it for the $$? maybe, maybe not. but the matter of the fact is that we still need orthopods, just like we need everything else.

do people who go into plastics do it to have a private practice in beverly hills? maybe, but if your face was disfigured, you'd be glad that someone went into the field.

do neurosurg people go into for the $$? maybe, but i sure was glad that when i had to consult a neurosurg for possible surgery, there was someone who went into the field.

do people who go into ER do it just because they have to work 3 or 4 12 hour shifts and are lazy? maybe. but i'm glad that when i had gastroenteritis and food poisoning, there was someone i could go to at 3am to help me.

so you judging others "why" they choose to go into something over another specialty is out of line, and pretty pretentious.

 

[SageCraft]

Fact: The OP has no idea what Dermatology entails. None. All she see's is the dollar signs. She's made this fairly obvious.

 

[asmallchild]

I should have absolutely gotten in.

It's times like these that I appreciate the rabid competitiveness of derm. And the fact that reapplicants are at a huge disadvantage. You aren't owed anything.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Fact: The OP has no idea what Dermatology entails. None. All she see's is the dollar signs. She's made this fairly obvious.

How is that a "fact"? In my understanding, a fact is something that has evidence. Have you ever done a dermatology rotation? Have you ever seen patients with blistering diseases whose life was hell because of them? I doubt it.

Did you read WHY i choose derm? Maybe the fact that I had to move to this country for a derm related issue and I almost died from a derm related issue has something to do with it. Maybe the fact that my mom almost died of melanoma has something to do with it. Maybe the fact that my dad had skin cancer as well as my grandmother has something to do with it.

Where do you see the dollar sign?

Do you just want to be a jerk or what?

 

[Medstudentquest]

It's times like these that I appreciate the rabid competitiveness of derm. And the fact that reapplicants are at a huge disadvantage. You aren't owed anything.

That's pretty mean. And it's pretty silly given the countless people who get in the second time around. I am not owed anything, no. But based on my app, I should have gotten in.

Do you like to be judged for going into derm, and to be told you went into derm just for $$$$? I doubt it.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

OK guys, stop picking on her. She's entirely right that people have different motivations for going into fields. As someone who plans on applying in plastic surgery and who is desperately looking for lifelong ways to stay out of cosmetics, I feel her. She has a compelling medical interest in derm in terms of her own illness experiences.

Now, some of her statements don't make a lot of sense-- like claiming to be physically unable to complete a surgery prelim yet interested in anesthesia and encouraged to apply in ortho.

I don't think she's chasing money, but I'm sure lifestyle factors in. Derm is a 40-hr/wk residency and a 35-hr/wk practice. The OP strikes me as someone likely to be attracted to that-- which is well within her rights.

MSQ, what the others are saying-- and I agree-- is that although you're allowed to like what you wish, you're coming across as extremely close-minded towards other areas of medicine. Saying you "despise" certain fields and that you would "never do" others really doesn't paint a portrait of someone with her feet firmly planted in reality. I personally am a bit incredulous that one can go through medical school, rotate through numerous specialties, see the full spectrum of human suffering with which doctors deal and still turn their back on it all-- all except one very small window, dermatological disease. There surely is *something* else that you feel would be rewarding to spend your life addressing. If not, well, that's rather odd.

It's not about being *maximally* satisfied. Derm is your favorite, we understand, and you'd be happiest doing that... but surely there's a number 2, 3, and 4 where you could be at least marginally happy.

Again, if not, that's kind of odd.

 

[Medstudentquest]

OK guys, stop picking on her. She's entirely right that people have different motivations for going into fields. As someone who plans on applying in plastic surgery and who is desperately looking for lifelong ways to stay out of cosmetics, I feel her. She has a compelling medical interest in derm in terms of her own illness experiences.

Now, some of her statements don't make a lot of sense-- like claiming to be physically unable to complete a surgery prelim yet interested in anesthesia and encouraged to apply in ortho.

I don't think she's chasing money, but I'm sure lifestyle factors in. Derm is a 40-hr/wk residency and a 35-hr/wk practice. The OP strikes me as someone likely to be attracted to that-- which is well within her rights.

MSQ, what the others are saying-- and I agree-- is that although you're allowed to like what you wish, you're coming across as extremely close-minded towards other areas of medicine. Saying you "despise" certain fields and that you would "never do" others really doesn't paint a portrait of someone with her feet firmly planted in reality. I personally am a bit incredulous that one can go through medical school, rotate through numerous specialties, see the full spectrum of human suffering with which doctors deal and still turn their back on it all-- all except one very small window, dermatological disease. There surely is *something* else that you feel would be rewarding to spend your life addressing. If not, well, that's rather odd.

It's not about being *maximally* satisfied. Derm is your favorite, we understand, and you'd be happiest doing that... but surely there's a number 2, 3, and 4 where you could be at least marginally happy.

Again, if not, that's kind of odd.

I was encouraged to apply to ortho and told I was the ideal candidate because I did very well on the rotation. we are required to do ortho in my med school. I didn't apply to ortho nor would I apply to ortho because it's not a field i find interesting or physically could do. So that answers that question.

As far as anesthesia, I find it a somewhat interesting specialty and enjoyed my time while I completed my requirement in it during med school. If derm did not pan out, it's something that I would consider doing. As far as a surg prelim, not only would I be physically unable to do it, but it would not help me at all in my career. I'm not even sure it's allowed for derm. The point of the matter is that for my career interests, it would be useless.

As far as being maximally satisfied, I disagree. I think we all should strive to do what we love. After all, we don't spend years in med school and other academic pursuits to end up in something we don't like doing. And I have a husband and my family nearby, and I entirely believe that having time to enjoy one's family is very important. I don't believe that having no time for family and enjoying life is somehow evil or abnormal, quite the opposite. I think that there are alot of unhappy doctors out there who don't have any personal time and are miserable with their lives. I think I am not the only one who wants to have a fulfilling medical career and at the same time be able to spend time with family and have a normal life. Why is that so terrible?

I could easily go into something like psych that is much easier to get into and I could likely get into a top program. It has a great lifestyle as well and I could easily make what I'd make with derm. However that is not what I love. So why would I settle for something? I feel that it's worthwhile to try again and to use the connections I have to the fullest and give it my all to try to get in. Countless people I know have gotten in on their 2nd, third, etc. try.

Giving up now would be stupid.

As a person who's trying to go into a very competitive specialty yourself, you know how hard it is to get into plastics. I think you'd be disappointed if you could not do plastics and had to *settle* for something else.

 

[asmallchild]

And it's pretty silly given the countless people who get in the second time around. I am not owed anything, no. But based on my app, I should have gotten in.

Earlier in the thread, you say you're devastated because reapplicants are at a disadvantage. You say you're so disheartened you are considering withdrawing from medical school.

Now you say countless people get in on the 2nd time around. Seems like you have the answer to your own question. Why are you here?

You say you aren't owed anything. But then you say you should've gotten in. Do you proofread?

I agree with the earlier posters, this has to be a troll who's just trying to get a rise out of all of us.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Earlier in the thread, you say you're devastated because reapplicants are at a disadvantage. You say you're so disheartened you are considering withdrawing from medical school.

Now you say countless people get in on the 2nd time around. Seems like you have the answer to your own question. Why are you here?

You say you aren't owed anything. But then you say you should've gotten in. Do you proofread?

I agree with the earlier posters, this has to be a troll who's just trying to get a rise out of all of us.

I was very upset initially and heart broken. I'm sorry I have feelings and emotions. Yes, I considered withdrawing since I was so upset, but given the sound advice so people gave, talking to family and really thinking about this, I decided that was a big mistake. I have also come into additional information from my initial post.

I don't expect anyone here to solve anything for me. I was venting. Is it so terrible to be upset? I know that I'm not owned anything, absolutely. But in theory, I should have gotten in absolutely. Just like my other AOA, 250+ classmate and other great classmates should have matched and yet they didn't.

why are you so judgmental? Do you want others to tell you you are going into derm for the $$$?

 

[howelljolly]

1-I don't have to give you an explanation of why I don't like certain fields
2-You are very cocky to be a medical student-you act like you are the head of neurosurg at Harvard
3-If you cared to have read my posts, you would already know why i chose derm

rather you just spout insults and judgments. i don't judge those who decide to go into ortho. is it for the $$? maybe, maybe not. but the matter of the fact is that we still need orthopods, just like we need everything else.

do people who go into plastics do it to have a private practice in beverly hills? maybe, but if your face was disfigured, you'd be glad that someone went into the field.

do neurosurg people go into for the $$? maybe, but i sure was glad that when i had to consult a neurosurg for possible surgery, there was someone who went into the field.

do people who go into ER do it just because they have to work 3 or 4 12 hour shifts and are lazy? maybe. but i'm glad that when i had gastroenteritis and food poisoning, there was someone i could go to at 3am to help me.

so you judging others "why" they choose to go into something over another specialty is out of line, and pretty pretentious.

Here comes another one... It seems that you havent spent a minute of your life in introspection.

We have all read your posts. And, it is still unclear.

These are just some thoughts, not looking for answers: Why not Child Psychiatry? Pediatric - Neurodevelopmental Disabilities? Infectious Disease, General or Plastic Surgery, who has the most profound effect on Dermatological disease? Why not Dermatopathology? Why not FP or any other field that allows you to do Derm after fellowships and certifications? Dont answer. I dont want to know

When we started med school, many of us talked about personal/family experiences with a disease which set us on a course to make a difference in the world. For many of us, we grew and developed, and now have different reasons for choosing our fields. These reasons may or may not be grounded in our original bright eyed altruism. But the point is, that most of us grew as people, and can at least articulate what makes us tick.

But thats fine. Thats what the personal statement is for. Its not my business.

And, no, I and most others dont assume that everyone in the A-RODEO (or whatever acronym they use nowadays) is chasing money or lifestyle. But on forums like this, and in the real world, most of us discuss specialty choices often. Most people can articulate why they choose a particular field. And plenty of people say... "I like physiology, nice cars, and Soduko... Im going for anesthesia" And thats fine. Or you can get a genuine answer about how in plastic surgery, theres no predetermined procedure. That you have to see what you have to work with, and then be crafty about reconstructing what used to be there... or never there in the first place. Anyway...

Regardless of what you think... Ive got this nasty habit of looking for the best in people. I was looking for something to make me think that I havent wasted my energy.

 

[Tigerz_Fan]

How is that a "fact"? In my understanding, a fact is something that has evidence. Have you ever done a dermatology rotation? Have you ever seen patients with blistering diseases whose life was hell because of them? I doubt it.
QUOTE]

Please realize I am not saying this to be mean. This is my last piece of advice for you:

It is usually referred to as bullous diseases. To be competitive for derm you must use the right terminology.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Here comes another one... It seems that you havent spent a minute of your life in introspection.

We have all read your posts. And, it is still unclear.

These are just some thoughts, not looking for answers: Why not Child Psychiatry? Pediatric - Neurodevelopmental Disabilities? Infectious Disease, General or Plastic Surgery, who has the most profound effect on Dermatological disease? Why not Dermatopathology? Why not FP or any other field that allows you to do Derm after fellowships and certifications? Dont answer. I dont want to know

When we started med school, many of us talked about personal/family experiences with a disease which set us on a course to make a difference in the world. For many of us, we grew and developed, and now have different reasons for choosing our fields. These reasons may or may not be grounded in our original bright eyed altruism. But the point is, that most of us grew as people, and can at least articulate what makes us tick.

But thats fine. Thats what the personal statement is for. Its not my business.

And, no, I and most others dont assume that everyone in the A-RODEO (or whatever acronym they use nowadays) is chasing money or lifestyle. But on forums like this, and in the real world, most of us discuss specialty choices often. Most people can articulate why they choose a particular field. And plenty of people say... "I like physiology, nice cars, and Soduko... Im going for anesthesia" And thats fine. Or you can get a genuine answer about how in plastic surgery, theres no predetermined procedure. That you have to see what you have to work with, and then be crafty about reconstructing what used to be there... or never there in the first place. Anyway...

Regardless of what you think... Ive got this nasty habit of looking for the best in people. I was looking for something to make me think that I havent wasted my energy.

Have you read about WHY i choose to go into derm?

 

[Medstudentquest]

How is that a "fact"? In my understanding, a fact is something that has evidence. Have you ever done a dermatology rotation? Have you ever seen patients with blistering diseases whose life was hell because of them? I doubt it.
QUOTE]

Please realize I am not saying this to be mean. This is my last piece of advice for you:

It is usually referred to as bullous diseases. To be competitive for derm you must use the right terminology.

Blistering diseases is the correct term. Unless all the faculty who focus on blistering diseases at my school are just frauds?

 

[asmallchild]

Stop. Just stop.

1) http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=396753
-complaining about a needle stick affecting your grade

2) http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=421527
-complaining about the subjectivity of clinical grading (there were more, I'm just kind and posted 1)

3) http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=461611
-complaining about not matching because of a low Step 1 secondary to a "learning disability"

4) http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=463533
-complaining about a rotation where the intern was incompetent

5) http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=579868
-here is the thread showing full well you knew what you were getting yourself into when applying for derm

And in the last couple of days,
6) http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=611286
-you say you're okay with not matching in derm, just shocked with not matching into prelim

7) http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=613294
-and now we arrive at this thread. You've made the full U-turn and escalated to whining about not getting into derm, missing out on your dream, and lashing out at IMGs

I really do hope you are a troll (a dedicated one at that). Because the alternative would mean someone willingly accepted you into medical school and entrusted you with patients. What do you do? You take this honor, turn around at every little mishap along the road, and find someone else to blame. If the latter is true, forget derm. You are unfit to practice medicine.

[drops microphone, steps off the soapbox, vacates the thread to thunderous applause]

Wow. I think that says it all. I have nothing further to add.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Wow. I think that says it all. I have nothing further to add.

I find it interesting that you don't answer any questions asked, and that you just throw more fuel to the fire.

 

[howelljolly]

\She's entirely right that people have different motivations for going into fields. .

As a person who's trying to go into a very competitive specialty yourself, you know how hard it is to get into plastics. I think you'd be disappointed if you could not do plastics and had to *settle* for something else.

And, no, I and most others dont assume that everyone in the A-RODEO (or whatever acronym they use nowadays) is chasing money or lifestyle. But on forums like this, and in the real world, most of us discuss specialty choices often. Most people can articulate why they choose a particular field. And plenty of people say... "I like physiology, nice cars, and Soduko... Im going for anesthesia" And thats fine. Or you can get a genuine answer about how in plastic surgery, theres no predetermined procedure. That you have to see what you have to work with, and then be crafty about reconstructing what used to be there... or never there in the first place. Anyway...
.

Ask her why she wants to go into plastics. You'll get an answer that will make you want to go into plastics.

Problem solved.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Ask her why she wants to go into plastics. You'll get an answer that will make you want to go into plastics.

Problem solved.

You still haven't answered my question. I don't want to go into plastics, but I respect her if that's what she wants.

 

[howelljolly]

Have you read about WHY i choose to go into derm?

I have.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I have.

Then you shouldn't have any questions as to why I chose derm.

 

[Tigerz_Fan]

Blistering diseases is the correct term. Unless all the faculty who focus on blistering diseases at my school are just frauds?

http://www.aad.org/public/publications/pamphlets/common_bullous.html

 

[flumazenil]

Does anyone know how many candidates successfully matched into derm with a 210 step 1, as the OP has?

Also someone else said it earlier, but it couldn't have been stated any better. You are not entitled to anything. End of story. Didnt match this year- tough luck. Goodluck next year!

 

[Medstudentquest]

Does anyone know how many candidates successfully matched into derm with a 210 step 1, as the OP has?

Also someone else said it earlier, but it couldn't have been stated any better. You are not entitled to anything. End of story. Didnt match this year- tough luck. Goodluck next year!

Can you stop making up lies? It's pretty psychotic on your part. I don't have a step 1 of 210. It's idiotic of you to continue stating that. And there were 470 some students (US) who applied, 583 total, and only 262 US students got in. You do the math. 6.9% of all US students went unmatched.

I am reporting you as harassing me, because this psychotic crap you keep doing is ridiculous at this point.

 

[flumazenil]

you should probably get ready for next years match..

 

[howelljolly]

Then you shouldn't have any questions as to why I chose derm.

But I do.

Why do you think that is?

If you havent already, see if you can get your Derm faculty to review your personal statement. Usually, interviews are offered without having read the PS. The PS factors in to the "To rank, or not to rank" decision. Since you had interviews but no match, there might be a problem in the phase between the Interview list and the Rank list.

Maybe you could also practice your interviewing skills.

Yes, Ive had some lunch. Thanks.

 

[Elfy]

Does anyone know how many candidates successfully matched into derm with a 210 step 1, as the OP has?

She doesn't have a 210 in Step 1. She has a 239 or the like, and no Step 2 yet. She said as much. But if there's any IMGs who matched this year on U.S. soil in derm (which I highly doubt), they'd have to score something like 269 in both steps and have more derm publications than she does. So IMGs certainly didn't displace the OP and probably nor her 250+, AOA classmate from derm after all. End of story there. As for the role of IMGs in other specialties, the OP should let people in those other specialties express an opinion, especially since she's not interested in those specialties.

 

[highvoltage]

I have worked very hard in med school, and have done well. What do you do, if I may ask? I don't like FP at all, so that's not an option. I will still try for derm.

I also want to do medicine for many years to come. Why do you say in 8-10 years you are out?

i dont like the person that i am when i am working in this arena. its a teriible environment thats why 8-10 years and im out. i am an attending

 

[Medstudentquest]

But I do.

Why do you think that is?

If you havent already, see if you can get your Derm faculty to review your personal statement. Usually, interviews are offered without having read the PS. The PS factors in to the "To rank, or not to rank" decision. Since you had interviews but no match, there might be a problem in the phase between the Interview list and the Rank list.

Maybe you could also practice your interviewing skills.

Yes, Ive had some lunch. Thanks.

I have no idea why you have further questions. I have more than enough reasons to have chosen derm, but even if I didn't like alot of people who go into the field, there is no reason why I should be judged.

What are you going into? And would you like to be judged based on that? In the end, we need all specialties. Some people will like some specialties, others will like others.

If you read what i posted, there were well over 400 US students who applied for derm, and only 262 were successful. 583 total students. Do you really think that only half of them could be great dermatologists? No. Obviously, there aren't enough spots for everyone. Why do you think there are fellowships offered every year, and people who after being a fellow, get in? It's very common nowadays.

Think of when you applied to med school. How many people didn't get in? Thousands. Does that mean that all those people who were rejected and couldn't get in wouldn't have been great docs? Not really.
There were several people in my class who failed their first year, others failed step 1, etc. Maybe those who didn't get in would have gone through school just fine.

So you see, every year deserving people don't get in. It's a fact of life unfortunately. And again, I seriously doubt that of those 200+ people who didn't get into derm, noen were deserving or would not have been good dermies. Some of those people will decide to go into something else, others will try again.

 

[Medstudentquest]

i dont like the person that i am when i am working in this arena. its a teriible environment thats why 8-10 years and im out. i am an attending

I'm sorry to hear that. Can i ask what field? Have you thought about going into something different?

 

[howelljolly]

I have no idea why you have further questions. I have more than enough reasons to have chosen derm, but even if I didn't like alot of people who go into the field, there is no reason why I should be judged.

What are you going into? And would you like to be judged based on that? In the end, we need all specialties. Some people will like some specialties, others will like others.

If you read what i posted, there were well over 400 US students who applied for derm, and only 262 were successful. 583 total students. Do you really think that only half of them could be great dermatologists? No. Obviously, there aren't enough spots for everyone. Why do you think there are fellowships offered every year, and people who after being a fellow, get in? It's very common nowadays.

Think of when you applied to med school. How many people didn't get in? Thousands. Does that mean that all those people who were rejected and couldn't get in wouldn't have been great docs? Not really.
There were several people in my class who failed their first year, others failed step 1, etc. Maybe those who didn't get in would have gone through school just fine.

So you see, every year deserving people don't get in. It's a fact of life unfortunately. And again, I seriously doubt that of those 200+ people who didn't get into derm, noen were deserving or would not have been good dermies. Some of those people will decide to go into something else, others will try again.

So what are YOU going to do about getting in for next year?

 

[Medstudentquest]

She doesn't have a 210 in Step 1. She has a 239 or the like, and no Step 2 yet. She said as much. But if there's any IMGs who matched this year on U.S. soil in derm (which I highly doubt), they'd have to score something like 269 in both steps and have more derm publications than she does. So IMGs certainly didn't displace the OP and probably nor her 250+, AOA classmate from derm after all. End of story there. As for the role of IMGs in other specialties, the OP should let people in those other specialties express an opinion, especially since she's not interested in those specialties.

I don't know if any IMG matched into derm or not. I am not saying that any IMG displaced *ME* per se. And I'm not going to go into the IMG issue again. That topic is done. My classmate who had the 250+, etc. did not apply for derm, but for a much less competitive specialty and yet did not match. My point was that every year, deserving people don't get in, so it's a shock and frustrating.

I'm not going to comment on other people's wishes for going into different specialties. Unless someone knows a person very well, it's likely going to be a disservice to comment on the real reasons why that person chose that specialty.

 

[Medstudentquest]

So what are YOU going to do about getting in for next year?

Well for one, I may likely be getting a prelim spot for this upcoming july. Like i have said before, I will continue working on my MPH, i will study to do super well on Step 2, will potentially try to find someone within my derm dept or someone elsewhere to guide me towards seeing what i can do for my app., trying to use rotations in prelim year to possibly get to know more faculty and/or work on research. the next year, i'll likely strive for a fellowship. that's my plan.

 

[howelljolly]

Well for one, I may likely be getting a prelim spot for this upcoming july. Like i have said before, I will continue working on my MPH, i will study to do super well on Step 2, will potentially try to find someone within my derm dept or someone elsewhere to guide me towards seeing what i can do for my app., trying to use rotations in prelim year to possibly get to know more faculty and/or work on research. the next year, i'll likely strive for a fellowship. that's my plan.

Sounds like a plan. I know a couple of people who got into cardiology fellowships, after having done nuclear/imaging cardiology fellowships right out of residency.

 

[yaah]

Due to excessive complaints about this thread, it is being closed. As an aside, I would recommend we not start up a new thread to have the same debates over and over again.