CAP Fellowships Discussion

[box8psych]

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Current PGY-2 here interested in CAP fellowship. I've starting to research programs in earnest and am really surprised by the dearth of threads/information comparing and describing different programs, so I decided to start one and see what happens! I'm trying to return home to Southern California if possible, but am also looking at other Cali/West Coast (Wa, Or) and NYC programs and would love to hear from other people (PGY-3s done with interviews, current fellows, or anyone else) about the training, quality of life, etc. I realize this is super open-ended, but let's see where it goes! And good luck to all those matching this year 🙂

 

[Moses4123]

Thanks for starting this! I too, was surprised by the lack of threads - SND is where I got a majority of my info re: psych residency programs, but I see very little about CAP. (I'm PGY-1 but a planner and 95% sure about CAP). If you find anywhere else where people are hiding this info let me know!

 

[Sushirolls]

Very small world, and not every one wants to put it out. Interviews will likely still be your best source to glean information.

 

[Merovinge]

Few reasons for that observation:
1) Relative dearth of CAP posters in general on these forums, although it has improved some over the years

2) I'd argue a tiny fraction of psych residencies are malignant or provide poor training, a virtually infinitesimal portion of CAP fellowships are rotten apples. Most programs are actively great, there is huge demand for CAP services across the country (actually globe) and very few places expect crazy work hours.

3) By the time people are doing fellowship they are usually choosing based on geographic location (like you) or based on a specific attending/program that sparks career interests. If they are doing neither of those, they may just base it on the university's prestige which has a relatively low r coefficient to CAP training, has an r of 1.0 on what name is on the fellowship diploma they hang up on their office.

I'd ask any CAP faculty at your residency for their thoughts, apply to every program in a location you want to live, and go check them out yourself. Most psych residencies can accommodate you going on 4-8 interviews and it is definitely worth the money to get a good feel for different programs, your likely to run into the same people again at things like AACAP or even professionally if you live in the same area.

 

[m2k]

Thanks for starting this! I too, was surprised by the lack of threads - SND is where I got a majority of my info re: psych residency programs, but I see very little about CAP. (I'm PGY-1 but a planner and 95% sure about CAP). If you find anywhere else where people are hiding this info let me know!

Correct.

A question for and OP, you're both so sure to go for CAP. Would you mind sharing why you chose this fellowship.

Since you have chosen this so early, I'm sure you can arrange some elective rotations at the fellowship location you would like to consider. It will be a little cost for travel and accommodation. But I think it will be worth it plus you'll have change of scenery. Just a thought.

 

[cheesus86]

I'd ask any CAP faculty at your residency for their thoughts, apply to every program in a location you want to live, and go check them out yourself.

Visiting may not be an option this year due to COVID-19. AADPRT is recommending all residency/fellowship directors to "conduct
all interviews and virtual visits online, including those for local trainees, for the entire
interview season." If interested, read the letter here: https://www.aadprt.org/application/files/3015/8983/6342/admsep_aadprt_statement_5-17-20.pdf

That being said, I don't know if all program directors would actually stick to the guideline. Has any current fellow heard anything from their PDs?

 

[Merovinge]

Visiting may not be an option this year due to COVID-19. AADPRT is recommending all residency/fellowship directors to "conduct
all interviews and virtual visits online, including those for local trainees, for the entire
interview season." If interested, read the letter here: https://www.aadprt.org/application/files/3015/8983/6342/admsep_aadprt_statement_5-17-20.pdf

That being said, I don't know if all program directors would actually stick to the guideline. Has any current fellow heard anything from their PDs?

I'm sure they will still put together an interview day for you, even if it has to be done remotely. Its certainly sub-optimal compared to a live visit, but you should get a chance to meet a variety of faculty and get your questions answered/read between the lines.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Visiting may not be an option this year due to COVID-19. AADPRT is recommending all residency/fellowship directors to "conduct
all interviews and virtual visits online, including those for local trainees, for the entire
interview season." If interested, read the letter here: https://www.aadprt.org/application/files/3015/8983/6342/admsep_aadprt_statement_5-17-20.pdf

That being said, I don't know if all program directors would actually stick to the guideline. Has any current fellow heard anything from their PDs?

We've been told that all our interviews are going to be virtual as of now, following those guidelines.

 

[Bilboquet]

Currently three weeks from finishing CAP fellowship on the East Coast. I was a recruitment chief and have been helping with the transition for next year's chief and you are correct - ACGME is having all programs do tele interviews. It is going to be new and challenging for all programs. Pros for interviewees will obviously be the money saved on travel, but cons will sadly be having much less of that sixth sense information you can only really get by being in person and observing the unscripted moments. I loved my program and program director so if you have questions, I'd be happy to try and answer.

 

[cheesus86]

My PD just said he'd still be conducting face-to-face interviews, so I'm guessing not all the PDs will follow the guidlines... IDK

 

[box8psych]

Correct.

A question for and OP, you're both so sure to go for CAP. Would you mind sharing why you chose this fellowship.

Since you have chosen this so early, I'm sure you can arrange some elective rotations at the fellowship location you would like to consider. It will be a little cost for travel and accommodation. But I think it will be worth it plus you'll have change of scenery. Just a thought.

I have an extensive history both personal and professional in pediatric mental health and was originally planning to go into developmental neuroscience research before realizing I did not enjoy the day-to-day work/life of an academic researcher. So I pivoted to medical school with the plan to pursue CAP and my experiences in medical school and residency have only confirmed this path for me. If you have any specific questions or want to talk further feel free to message me!

My PD just said he'd still be conducting face-to-face interviews, so I'm guessing not all the PDs will follow the guidlines... IDK

If you don't mind saying, what program are you at? I haven't heard anything from my home institution (NYC) and have so far have only heard of programs planning to do virtual interview days.

 

[Moses4123]

Correct.

A question for and OP, you're both so sure to go for CAP. Would you mind sharing why you chose this fellowship.

Since you have chosen this so early, I'm sure you can arrange some elective rotations at the fellowship location you would like to consider. It will be a little cost for travel and accommodation. But I think it will be worth it plus you'll have change of scenery. Just a thought.

Sure, happy to share - a couple of reasons. First and foremost, I plan to see younger children (as well and adolescents) in private practice eventually. I would not feel good about this if I had not sought great training for this specific group- there are very specific therapies and considerations for children.

I also have the belief that a very firm grasp on attachment, development, and family dynamics goes a very long way in treating any patient. In other words I plan to use the knowledge and skills gained studying CAP in assessing, formulating, and treating all age groups.

The dearth of CAP providers in my community (and the US/world) is also a huge driving factor. It’s only one more year to be able to serve a portion of the population that is in drastic, ever-increasing need.

Thanks to everyone for thoughts on why not much is here. I’m sure many of the programs are excellent. I do hope to get more specific information about focus and relative strengths of different programs (location is important, but so is the fit for two years of life/work). I will keep reaching out to individuals and PDs for this information! Good luck OP, keep us “posted” 🙂

 

[milesed]

I loved my program and did a combined general 4th year with 1st year of C/A to get through faster. I went into psyc with the initial intent on C/A and have always liked kids- parents are another topic.

I can't imagine having to pick a program w/o being there in person to feel it out. There were many programs with big names I didn't even rank after seeing how unhappy they all were. Pick a place where attendings, nurses, med students and residents all seem content if not happy.

The initial boards were harder for C/A IMO than general psyc but the re-certifications have been super easy. It may all be different by now from the structure we had to comply with.

 

[UrbanMidwest]

@ Milesed: What programs were on your list of CAP that you liked? (I don't mean to make this thread into another "list" thread, though!)

 

[Mass Effect]

My PD just said he'd still be conducting face-to-face interviews, so I'm guessing not all the PDs will follow the guidlines... IDK

That's a red flag right there.

 

[milesed]

@ Milesed: What programs were on your list of CAP that you liked? (I don't mean to make this thread into another "list" thread, though!)

I wanted to stay in the southeastern US, so interviewed all over that area. I liked UNC Chapel Hill. UK Lexington, MUSC- Charleston SC and UF-Gainesville the best. Vanderbilt, Duke and Emory all have big names, but the residents and attending really turned me off. There was an attitude of "We have such a big reputation that we don't have to make you happy". I ended up at MUSC where every single person I met was happy to be there- very good program and balance of work/personal life. It may be very different now.

I wanted a medium to large size residency class, a program with lots of research being done, multiple sub-specialty fellowships offered in an area of the country I'd enjoy living in. My residency class was awesome and had only one person in it I haven't stayed friends with over the years. We still have reunions every 5 years.

Someone told me as I went through the process that you can get a great education at a bottom level program and a terrible education at the best program depending on what you put into it. I found that to be very true..I was also told that the "big name" was only really a factor if I wanted to go into research or teach. I wanted neither, but do currently teach PA and psyc ARNP students out of goodwill to my region- not on staff anywhere and do it for free. I was also offered a position on teaching staff at MUSC as I completed the program, but preferred just seeing patients so turned it down.

If you do want to go into research or teaching, they said to aim for a program one "level" above where you wanted to end up- top tier to teach at middle tier, etc. Hope this helps.

 

[Throwawaywoop]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, but does anyone know where the training verification form in ERAS is to be found? I keep hearing about this, and I believe I might have already sent it to my PD (I asked him to write my LoR quite early on), but as I'm looking through my application, I can't seem to find it and don't want to find out after August 12 that it actually hasn't been filled out. Thanks for any responses!

 

[box8psych]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, but does anyone know where the training verification form in ERAS is to be found? I keep hearing about this, and I believe I might have already sent it to my PD (I asked him to write my LoR quite early on), but as I'm looking through my application, I can't seem to find it and don't want to find out after August 12 that it actually hasn't been filled out. Thanks for any responses!

I and my colleagues had this same issue. What we found out (last week!) is that it is something your PD fills out and adds on to the end of their LOR. Our PD resubmited his LOR and now we're just waiting for it to be verified. I've attached the form to this post in case you still need it!

 

[Throwawaywoop]

I and my colleagues had this same issue. What we found out (last week!) is that it is something your PD fills out and adds on to the end of their LOR. Our PD resubmited his LOR and now we're just waiting for it to be verified. I've attached the form to this post in case you still need it!

Thank you so much! I just found this out last week as well and am not sure how I would have known otherwise. My PD resubmitted his LOR as well so I assume he added the form to the end of the letter, but I reached out to him anyways just to make sure. Appreciate the help.

 

[Throwawaywoop]

Last question I swear lol, sorry for the double post. Does anyone know if you can still submit the application even if certain documents are still processing (e.g. MSPE, LoR, or medical school transcript)?

 

[Central_SOULcus]

Hi everyone, just seeing what folks are doing for number of LOR's. (I have letters from 3 attendings and 1 from my PD.)

For those programs that say "at least three," it's clear you can submit up to 4 LORs. For those programs that say something like: "2 LORs, plus a letter from your PD," how many are you all submitting? I'm probably overthinking this lol. It doesn't clearly say "no more than 3 total," but it also doesn't say "at least 2 +PD." I was thinking to still assign all 4 of my letters to them, but then I'm thinking hmmm, could this be their way of seeing who follows directions...

 

[IsWhat]

Any recommendations for solid Midwest/Southeast programs?

 

[box8psych]

Last question I swear lol, sorry for the double post. Does anyone know if you can still submit the application even if certain documents are still processing (e.g. MSPE, LoR, or medical school transcript)?

Yes you can. Per the ERAS site: "Documents can be uploaded and assigned even after you have certified and submitted your application". I've already submitted/certified and am waiting on the updated PD letter which I can assign once it's uploaded. Good luck!