CAP programs with HAPPY fellows

[letsdothis2020]

Hello colleagues,

As our rank deadline is soon approaching, I am reaching out hoping if anyone who is an insider knows anything about how happy fellows are at the following programs: MGH/McLean, CHA, and Brown. I have heard from others that fellows in general tend to be happy at CHA and at Brown (good training with reasonable call schedules) but haven't heard much on this forum about how fellows like MGH/McLean. I know that the clinical training at MGH/McLean is stellar but I'd also like to know more about the environment and whether fellows are happy there. Any comments will be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

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[clozareal]

How would you measure happiness?

 

[TheTravelingShrink]

I completed my Child & Adolescent Psychiatry training at MGH/McLean and my Adult training at Yale so can speak to both programs. With regards to the MGH/McLean program, I had an excellent experience there. If you are someone who enjoys seeing patients independently and self-directed learning, it will provide you the space to do both, while simultaneously providing outstanding supervisors who will readily make themselves available to you. The rotations provide great learning without unnecessary busy work, and the call is also educational. The program director - David Rubin - is knowledgeable, approachable, and will go out of his way to help you succeed whether it be clinically, through research, or to help you obtain the post-fellowship job that you hope for. You also have 3 months of your second year (chief block) that is unstructured such that you can pursue any clinical or non-clinical interests that you have.

However, if you feel like you need a supervisor looking over your shoulder in all of your clinical interactions, you will need to specifically ask for it. A few members of my class were very unhappy - on the surface reportedly because they wanted more oversight but struggled in asking for it - although now that they've graduated are complaining about their new jobs. If you are independent and motivated, I think that you will *thrive* at MGH/McLean.

 

[letsdothis2020]

I completed my Child & Adolescent Psychiatry training at MGH/McLean and my Adult training at Yale so can speak to both programs. With regards to the MGH/McLean program, I had an excellent experience there. If you are someone who enjoys seeing patients independently and self-directed learning, it will provide you the space to do both, while simultaneously providing outstanding supervisors who will readily make themselves available to you. The rotations provide great learning without unnecessary busy work, and the call is also educational. The program director - David Rubin - is knowledgeable, approachable, and will go out of his way to help you succeed whether it be clinically, through research, or to help you obtain the post-fellowship job that you hope for. You also have 3 months of your second year (chief block) that is unstructured such that you can pursue any clinical or non-clinical interests that you have.

However, if you feel like you need a supervisor looking over your shoulder in all of your clinical interactions, you will need to specifically ask for it. A few members of my class were very unhappy - on the surface reportedly because they wanted more oversight but struggled in asking for it - although now that they've graduated are complaining about their new jobs. If you are independent and motivated, I think that you will *thrive* at MGH/McLean.

this was extremely helpful. i really appreciate this.

 

[letsdothis2020]

How would you measure happiness?

good work/life balance. feeling fulfilled and supported at work. having good colleagues. having a PD who genuinely cares about their fellows. having quality supervision.

 

[KillCancer]

good work/life balance. feeling fulfilled and supported at work. having good colleagues. having a PD who genuinely cares about their fellows. having quality supervision.

This sounds like MGH/McLean program.

 

[Onthefenceforeverything]

Any more thoughts about this? I'm very torn between the three as well, and maybe Boston Children's as well. Thanks!

 

[Monocles]

Prior to Covid I would have said CHA had the happiest fellows by far out of the 3 harvard fellowships... but covid threw such an incredible awful wrench in the entire Boston child/adolescent MH system that everyone feels overworked and burned out. It's like a massive tidal wave of pandemic related misery that every program is facing 3x the volume it used to. The best question is figure out which of those programs did the best to mitigate and set reasonable case limits for fellows. Things change so fast (for better AND for worse) that it would be best speaking with current fellows in each of the three programs and specifically ask about caseload. But honestly even attendings are leaving all three due to burnout... (and this is probably not unique to the harvard programs)

I'm not familiar with Brown (interviewed there but ended up staying in the Boston area for fellowship) so I can't speak about it accurately.

tl;dr the program with the happiest fellows is the one with the lowest workload

 

[notamindreader]

Any more thoughts about this? I'm very torn between the three as well, and maybe Boston Children's as well. Thanks!

I want to echo what monocles shared above. Because of COVID, any residency/fellowship's trainee wellbeing might've tanked and so it would be most helpful to reach out to fellows from the institutions you're interested in and have a private conversation with them.

 

[Onthefenceforeverything]

Prior to Covid I would have said CHA had the happiest fellows by far out of the 3 harvard fellowships... but covid threw such an incredible awful wrench in the entire Boston child/adolescent MH system that everyone feels overworked and burned out. It's like a massive tidal wave of pandemic related misery that every program is facing 3x the volume it used to. The best question is figure out which of those programs did the best to mitigate and set reasonable case limits for fellows. Things change so fast (for better AND for worse) that it would be best speaking with current fellows in each of the three programs and specifically ask about caseload. But honestly even attendings are leaving all three due to burnout... (and this is probably not unique to the harvard programs)

I'm not familiar with Brown (interviewed there but ended up staying in the Boston area for fellowship) so I can't speak about it accurately.

tl;dr the program with the happiest fellows is the one with the lowest workload

Thank you!!! And what are your thoughts in general about the programs in terms of exposure to a vast variety of child psych experiences and elective time? Like how important is it to have elective time? It seems like CHA barely has any compared to Boston childrens and Brown.

 

[Monocles]

Thank you!!! And what are your thoughts in general about the programs in terms of exposure to a vast variety of child psych experiences and elective time? Like how important is it to have elective time? It seems like CHA barely has any compared to Boston childrens and Brown.

You'll likely get a decent exposure at all three of the programs. There might be a slightly variation in the skew or "flavour", for instance CHA has more immigrant populations, underserved public hospital kids, more psychodynamic focus. Children's is more medical and consult heavy with bizarre zebra cases that only exist a handful in the world, and MGH you'll see a ton of VIPs and they try to steer you towards leadership roles in psychiatry or unique research niche things to really utilise the MGH name, etc.

I honestly enjoyed my electives, and certainly think it was worth my time. A good comparison might be to look at the current 2021 rotation brochures and see which schedule you would like the most/or give you the most elective time.

 

[alina_s]

Ask lots of questions about call. Being a consultant to the ED is fine, being held responsible for disposition from the ED is a whole other (much stinkier) kettle of fish.