Cardiac Fellowships

[Deanmonster]

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Anyone have a list of the better cardiac fellowships by region? Couldn't find much info searching the forum. I remember hearing good things about Texas Heart, the Brigham, Emory, and Duke back when I was on the interview trail.

Thanks,

Dean

 

[PMPMD]

Anyone have a list of the better cardiac fellowships by region? Couldn't find much info searching the forum. I remember hearing good things about Texas Heart, the Brigham, Emory, and Duke back when I was on the interview trail.

Thanks,

Dean

CCF. plus, you get to wear an all white painter's outfit.

 

[bigdan]

The glaring omission from your original list was Cleveland Clinic, as was pointed out. Columbia also has a very large, very active program.

As is the case with most things, what's "Best" for one might not be so for another. You chould check out www.scahq.org. There's a ton of info regarding the particulars of most (or maybe all) of the Cardiac fellowships.

 

[cchoukal]

Penn.

 

[imfrankie]

Penn.

Why is it, if you don't mind, you mention Penn in particular?

 

[cchoukal]

Two people from my residency did their fellowships there and felt that the volume, complexity, and autonomy were all very high and they felt very well trained when they finished. And many of the other top places had already been mentioned.

 

[sevoflurane]

Penn has a strong cardiac program.

 

[Robert Loblaw]

i have some familiarity with the program at penn and have friends and partners who have trained at comparable institutions (hopkins, texas heart, CCF) and can offer some insight and comparison...my understanding is that at penn, two or three factors seem to add to richness of training compared to comparable institutions: (1) the relatively absence of community referrals--there are several 'community' hospitals with strong cardiac programs which do all the "healthy" cabg and valve cases. this essentially concentrates the case volume to complex or redo cases; (2) you are not a glorified resident, and will be supervising residents most of the time during these complex cases, and (3) the surgeons have the mentality that no patient is too sick to have an operation, irrespective of what may happen in the CTICU afterwards.

 

[Mac4]

It has became "my program is second to none" thread. I am sure you will get outstanding training in 80% of the programs. (80-20 rule)

My question would be: which programs would you avoid?

 

[Robert Loblaw]

which part of this thread is a "my program is best" rant? a specific question was asked, and multiple posters provided input...i did not say that i trained at penn, did I?

 

[Bertelman]

Unlike residency, fellowship is 12 months to obtain a very specific skill set. For cardiac, that includes certain cases, complexity of those cases, skill of the surgeons involved, etc.

Next, factor in the name recognition of some places, and the smaller sample size of the Cardiac Anesthesia world, and you will realize that certain names can carry much weight to practically any job in the country. These people meet up with each other at conferences, and are often just a phone call away when you are being investigated as a potential partner in a group.

Point is, when I was applying to fellowships, I had a dream list of 5 or so, an acceptable list of another 5-10, but beyond that I would have forgone fellowship entirely. So I disagree with the statement that 80% of cardiac fellowships will give you equal training, even though I do believe that is (mostly) true for residency. It's s different ball game.

And Penn was on my dream list, but I didn't end up there.

 

[lushmd]

There's definitely some truth in what Bertelman writes re the value of name recognition. Next year I'll be a cardiac fellow in one of the programs listed in this thread and this was very well received when I applied/interviewed for CCM fellowships this year. I anticipate the same being true when I apply for jobs.

 

[diceksox]

It has became "my program is second to none" thread. I am sure you will get outstanding training in 80% of the programs. (80-20 rule)

My question would be: which programs would you avoid?

I would agree with this. I am at a program that is not listed here and feel like I have received excellent training/ experience. As long as you have access to complex pathology and a wide breadth of cases you'll be fine (and happy).

 

[Josh1]

There's definitely some truth in what Bertelman writes re the value of name recognition. Next year I'll be a cardiac fellow in one the programs listed in this thread and this was very well received when I applied/interviewed for CCM fellowships this year. I anticipate the same being true of when I apply for jobs.

Why do people apply for both these fellowships? I don't see many people do greater than 1 fellowship but when I do it is usually this combination, why is that?

 

[lushmd]

Why do people apply for both these fellowships? I don't see many people do greater than 1 fellowship but when I do it is usually this combination, why is that?

You're right that very few people do two fellowships. Of those that do, I suppose that this combination is common because there are more synergies between these two subspecialties of anesthesiology than there are between other fellowship areas (although I guess one could make an argument for acute and chronic pain). Also, I think that these fields tend to draw like minded people.

 

[imfrankie]

You're right that very few people do two fellowships. Of those that do, I suppose that this combination is common because there are more synergies between these two subspecialties of anesthesiology than there are between other fellowship areas (although I guess one could make an argument for acute and chronic pain). Also, I think that these fields tend to draw like minded people.

If you want job security, in my opinion, peds + cardiac. Oh my gosh, everybody wants pedi-cardiac people and they are so few in number. Great cases too. And more and more of those former congenital cardiac kids are becoming adults who need surgery. That's the way to go for you young bucks and buckettes, IMHO.

 

[Bertelman]

If you want job security, in my opinion, peds + cardiac. Oh my gosh, everybody wants pedi-cardiac people and they are so few in number. Great cases too. And more and more of those former congenital cardiac kids are becoming adults who need surgery. That's the way to go for you young bucks and buckettes, IMHO.

That's because nobody likes it.

 

[imfrankie]

That's because nobody likes it.

I think the root cause is because it takes time to become very good at it and even then sometimes still stressful.

 

[Bertelman]

I think the root cause is because it takes time to become very good at it and even then sometimes still stressful.

Then no one likes it enough to make the sacrifices and put in the time. Because outsiders might say it takes a long time to become good at being a general anesthesiologist, which is sometimes still stressful, but we all did that.

 

[imfrankie]

Then no one likes it enough to make the sacrifices and put in the time. Because outsiders might say it takes a long time to become good at being a general anesthesiologist, which is sometimes still stressful, but we all did that.

Certainly some like it enough, just as some are willing to do dual CCM/cardiac anesthesia fellowships. The people that I know who do it full-time absolutely love it, albeit describe the learning curve as involving years and still stressful. The subspecialty doesn't seem to have another anesthesia analog in my estimation. I'd do it if I had the horsepower.

 

[Mac4]

Sometimes you just have to step back and think it through before diving into these high acuity/demanding double fellowships. Do you really want to practice SICU and cardiac anesthesia in an academic institution? Do you really want to deal with pediatric cardiac surgeons and sick babies all day?

 

[aanative]

Michigan. New cardiovascular center, Surgeons: Steve Bolling and Ed Bove. Look them up. Tremper is the chair. Transplants, VADS, and large aortic program.

Remember that when you look for a job the surgeons you will be working with will ask you who you've been working with (from the surgical side)

 

[lushmd]

Michigan. New cardiovascular center, Surgeons: Steve Bolling and Ed Bove. Look them up. Tremper is the chair. Transplants, VADS, and large aortic program.

Remember that when you look for a job the surgeons you will be working with will ask you who you've been working with (from the surgical side)

Good luck with that (unless you're a resident there). I didn't apply there but I've heard that they are very intent on taking their own residents, to the point that its tough to even get an interview there as an external applicant.

 

[bigdan]

Michigan. New cardiovascular center, Surgeons: Steve Bolling and Ed Bove. Look them up. Tremper is the chair. Transplants, VADS, and large aortic program.

Remember that when you look for a job the surgeons you will be working with will ask you who you've been working with (from the surgical side)

Michigan does seem like a very attractive program, and one I admit significant interest in.
I was unable to secure an interview there, unfortunately. Any thoughts on LushMD's perspective?