Career and Grad Program Alignment

[psychconvergence]

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I am in the process of finding grad programs and need some help on how to pick. I know career wise where I want to end up and the things I want to do but I'm not sure what route/programs to get there. For background info, I graduated with 2 bachelors from a top 10 US uni, have research/clinical experience, years of leadership experience as well as business experience. My gpa is barely below a 3.0 though because I started off as an biomolecular/chemical engineer before switching 2 years later; I started undergrad as pre-med for psychiatry but wanted to be employable after graduation and work/save before med school. My 16 year old self thought an engineering major would be the smartest way to do that and tried to stick with it for 2 years till I realized how unfulfilled and miserable I was and switched majors. That aside, I'm a extremely diverse and competitive applicant and my GRE's were both 160+.

Career Goals: Simply put, my dream job would be Wendy Rhoades off of the show Billions. I want to be licensed and able to do therapy in all the traditional forms but I also want to work in business consulting/psych roles. I want to be able assess an organization's employees, company culture, hierarchy system, marketing strategies etc and make recommendations as to how to improve the organization and it's efficiency/effectiveness from within. At the same time, I also want to be able to provide one on one talk therapy value to all types of clients both within and outside the business world. That's why I love Wendy's character so much. The owner of the hedgefund quipped that she is the HR department; throughout the show we see her vetting all new employees, developing company culture and hierarchy but at the same time is the in-house therapist/performance coach for all traders on the floor including the CEO. That ability to effect organizational wide as well as therapeutic personal change is what I want to accomplish in my career.

I am looking at practice-oriented Clin Psych programs that have concentrations or focus areas in IO Psych. I know to be able to do therapy, one must have graduated from an APA accredited institution and pass the EPPP. I am aware that there are also MS programs in IO Psych, which can lead to employment opps upon graduation, but I wouldn't have the therapy knowledge base I want. I'm also looking at PhD IO Psych programs but none so far have EPPP licensure outcomes; they all funnel to either academia or consulting. Thus, rn I'm trying to find clin psych programs with IO concentrations or focus areas. The only that I've seen so far is Widener's PsyD program. Are there other programs I could be looking at? Should I do a clin psych doctorate first and then a MS for IO specialization, or vice versa? Are there other routes possible to this career outcome? Sorry this was so long!

 

[Ollie123]

Hate to come across as harsh and ruin your dreams, but this seems like a dangerous path. Trying to pursue/model a career path based off a fictional character is just not a great idea. While not quite as extreme...this is akin to getting a degree in biomedical engineering in the hopes of becoming Iron Man. This is made even more dangerous by the fact that the only programs I know that combine these two things are not great schools. While far from the worst offender as PsyDs go, Widener is not a school most of us would strongly recommend. Many other choices are worse. They create these programs as marketing ploys targeting people like you. You have an unbelievably narrow career focus that requires combining things in weird ways and is probably not something that anyone in the real world is actually doing. Most IO psychologists will not have nearly as glamorous a role as what you describe...they are far more likely to be crunching numbers in the back room to determine if the last tweak to the job ad improved retention for assembly-line workers than they are to be coaching traders on wall street. Clinical programs will broadly train you in therapy, but won't train you in marketing, etc. Actually, a lot of what is on your list won't even be covered in an IO program.

None of this is to say that either degree would be a bad choice...but I think you need to pick one that sounds most appealing right now and look for things that fit. I think there are options on both sides of the fence, but as an insider in the field this person sounds very....fictional. Heck, even a mom and pop shop is going to have different people doing most of those things because you want a specialist in marketing working on your marketing strategies...not a clinical psychologist who moonlights as a marketing expert after getting a masters in IO that involved maybe 1 class peripherally related to marketing. Forget about the companies worth billions that will have teams of experts on any one of those things.

Anyways, I say all this not to be discouraging but just as a reality check. I can certainly see some areas of crossover between the two fields and there are many niches you can potentially fill, but I think you need to get a better handle on the normal day-to-day of folks in both fields and see which feels better. I think it is much better to find a day-to-day that you like and then scaffold off that down the line than pick an unusual educational path chasing a job that may not actually exist outside of television.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I would echo everything that Ollie said. From that, I would highlight that basing the realities of what is likely/possible/probable for what you can do on what you have seen on Billions is unwise. Said another way, there is a reason no IO psych programs do what you want and it has nothing to do with chance.

 

[pediatric_psydoc]

The way psychologists are portrayed on TV is far off from the way things really are. The surgeons on here tell us the same thing about how their work lives are completely different from the way shows like Grey’s Anatomy portray them to be.

My advice to you is this:

1. I would spend more time on this forum, read various threads, and see if psychology is a good fit.
2. Read some PDFs from peer reviewed journals of new research; sometimes even without a subscription some of the articles are made available. Look at some of the clinical psychology or IO psychology journals with high impact factors.
3. If you have access to professors who are practicing or have practiced in the past, see if you can make an appointment to talk with them. Bring a list of questions to ask regarding the field.


I’m not saying this field not a good fit for you; what I am saying is I think you need more information about what our field is really like before committing even to applying to programs. I think having more information will either broaden your horizons to know if this is a good fit for you or to know that pursuing other avenues may be prudent.

 

[psych.meout]

In addition to everything mentioned thus far, isn't that character a psychiatrist?

 

[erg923]

Career Goals: Simply put, my dream job would be Wendy Rhoades off of the show Billions. I want to be licensed and able to do therapy in all the traditional forms but I also want to work in business consulting/psych roles.

Most importantly:
TV is not real. There is no "Criminal Minds" squad and no, there is no job for Lance Sweets from Bones. And if there was, he would have be brought up on many malpractice charges. Stop modeling TV characters and start modeling (and talking to) people who actually do this in real life. What degrees did they get? How did they get there after that? What did they do for a living before this? What do they know and who did they get to know? What is there work ethic?

The reality:
This can be done, but career bifurcation such as this is not something you will be qualified to do nor have the credentials/reputation to be able do right after getting a doctorate in Clinical or Counseling psychology. People who end up doing this generally have years and years of experience in psychology and in business. Or they have spent years networking into it via doing executive coaching within their clinical practice.

Another somewhat more straightforward/concrete way... is to do this post-doctoral program. It's not very family friendly, as I think they have you traveling 20 days out of the month, just FYI. Plus, being hubbed in the Northern KY/Cinci area...yuk? Louisville or maybe Lexington, but Cinci? Get used to extending your "A" sounds and living next-door to weirdos.

As an aside, I was in the VA for 5 years, and as many here can attest, it is highly inefficient and quite a dysfunctional "business" in pockets. I have no idea where these people are in all this? I never saw or met any of them, nor did I ever even hear about their projects or mission within the system. Seems strange to me, especially considering there are almost 30 of them on staff in this department.

 

[Sanman]

In addition to everything mentioned thus far, isn't that character a psychiatrist?

She is a psychiatrist according to my google search. Step 1 of that career path seems to be make friends with multi-billionaire hedge fund owner.

On an unrelated note, that's where Maggie Siff from Sons of Anarchy went!

 

[PsyDr]

1) I consult for businesses. Some in finance. The uniform is much more of the midtown uniform and not the high end suits.

2) I’ve been approached for two jobs working with individuals coming into generational wealth. The proposed pay was suuuuuuuper bad.

 

[Sanman]

1) I consult for businesses. Some in finance. The uniform is much more of the midtown uniform and not the high end suits.

Since you brought it up, who is your preferred clothier? Jos A Bank? Brooks Brothers?

 

[psychconvergence]

Thank you so much everyone for the advice and candidness! I really just threw a desperate shot in the dark for help and getting responses back has my day today😀

I cited her because it was the only example I could think of that incorporated my interests. I know her title is psychiatrist in the show but after talking to a psychologist and a psychiatrist that watch the show, the consensus was her title in the show is not realistic cuz it's more psychologist or even IO. Reading day in life threads on here/watching vids on YouTube definitely confirmed that hence why I shifted focus to IO and clin psych.

From your responses, I'm learning that 1. that "ideal" role in her character don't exist in the traditional sense of career path because of how specialized/intersectional/unrealistic it is 2. A more realistic course of action is to try to find careers that incorporate business and psych and do serious research on their day to day so I can manage my expectations for work life 3. work hard and network within chosen career and maybe one day I could find myself in that niche.

Ultimately, I wanna do something that incorporates business and psychology. My next course of action is to do the research about these roles but aside from clin psych -> consulting and IO, are there any other titles I could be looking into? I can think of UI/UX, roles that do marketing research and applying or advising on it so marketing...consultant? I'm ignorant of the actual titles 😳

 

[psychconvergence]

Most importantly:
TV is not real. There is no "Criminal Minds" squad and no, there is no job for Lance Sweets from Bones. And if there was, he would have be brought up on many malpractice charges. Stop modeling TV characters and start modeling (and talking to) people who actually do this in real life. What degrees did they get? How did they get there after that? What did they do for a living before this? What do they know and who did they get to know? What is there work ethic?

The reality:
This can be done, but career bifurcation such as this is not something you will be qualified to do nor have the credentials/reputation to be able do right after getting a doctorate in Clinical or Counseling psychology. People who end up doing this generally have years and years of experience in psychology and in business. Or they have spent years networking into it via doing executive coaching within their clinical practice.

Another somewhat more straightforward/concrete way... is to do this post-doctoral program. It's not very family friendly, as I think they have you traveling 20 days out of the month, just FYI. Plus, being hubbed in the Northern KY/Cinci area...yuk? Louisville or maybe Lexington, but Cinci? Get used to extending your "A" sounds and living next-door to weirdos.

As an aside, I was in the VA for 5 years, and as many here can attest, it is highly inefficient and quite a dysfunctional "business" in pockets. I have no idea where these people are in all this? I never saw or met any of them, nor did I ever even hear about their projects or mission within the system. Seems strange to me, especially considering there are almost 30 of them on staff in this department.

Thank you so much!! I'll look into this post-doc 🙂

 

[Sanman]

Thank you so much everyone for the advice and candidness! I really just threw a desperate shot in the dark for help and getting responses back has my day today😀

I cited her because it was the only example I could think of that incorporated my interests. I know her title is psychiatrist in the show but after talking to a psychologist and a psychiatrist that watch the show, the consensus was her title in the show is not realistic cuz it's more psychologist or even IO. Reading day in life threads on here/watching vids on YouTube definitely confirmed that hence why I shifted focus to IO and clin psych.

From your responses, I'm learning that 1. that "ideal" role in her character don't exist in the traditional sense of career path because of how specialized/intersectional/unrealistic it is 2. A more realistic course of action is to try to find careers that incorporate business and psych and do serious research on their day to day so I can manage my expectations for work life 3. work hard and network within chosen career and maybe one day I could find myself in that niche.

Ultimately, I wanna do something that incorporates business and psychology. My next course of action is to do the research about these roles but aside from clin psych -> consulting and IO, are there any other titles I could be looking into? I can think of UI/UX, roles that do marketing research and applying or advising on it so marketing...consultant? I'm ignorant of the actual titles 😳

Start by getting on indeed or other job sites and searching out I/O psychology and human factors psychology. Find jobs that interest you and work backwards to see what you need to qualify for said job. Good luck.

 

[Ollie123]

If it doesn't go without saying, I would certainly look at counseling psychology as well. While the two have somewhat merged, counseling psych historically had more focus on "healthy" populations and slightly closer to things like executive coaching. It isn't really true these days, but at an extremely crass level the trend probably still holds. Some of your interests are probably a better fit for counseling than clinical. It isn't to say DON'T look at clinical since like I said - the overlap is extensive. Just that its worth putting those into the mix too.

If you are willing to forego the clinical piece, I would look hard at organizational behavior and other such programs within business schools. If I hadn't done clinical, this is probably what I would have done. There is enormous overlap between that and IO - the focus is nearly identical, its mostly about whether it is approached from a business or a psychology perspective.

 

[PsyDr]

Since you brought it up, who is your preferred clothier? Jos A Bank? Brooks Brothers?

We both know I wear a lot of Brooks Brothers. For depositions and trials, I have a few bespoke suits.

A decent piece of advice I got from a senior forensic psychologist: When dealing with attorneys and court, don't dress down. Wear your best. If you drive a nice car, park it up front. It’s a performance, so showing you’re successful adds credibility to you and your fees.

 

[Sanman]

We both know I wear a lot of Brooks Brothers. For depositions and trials, I have a few bespoke suits.

A decent piece of advice I got from a senior forensic psychologist: When dealing with attorneys and court, don't dress down. Wear your best. If you drive a nice car, park it up front. It’s a performance, so showing you’re successful adds credibility to you and your fees.

2) And from famil

I agree with the advice. I actively dress down and attempt to be less showy as a gubermint employee. There is no benefit to showing succes there, so less overhead for me. It is all a performance.

 

[cara susanna]

Not related to OP's question, but this reminds me of back in grad school when the head of the forensic psych program would repeatedly tell people: "BD Wong's job [in L&O: SVU] doesn't exist in real life!"