Career prospects

[deleted390966]

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Hi everyone,

We know the recession affects everyone.. so how is dentistry faring with regards to future employment? Will there still be a shortage of dentists by 2017-2018, or do you expect a surplus at some point? etc.

I'd appreciate if you could shed some light on this matter, or if you could point me to some good sources to read (besides the BLS website because there are reasons I don't trust this source anymore).

 

[Mackchops]

I plan on being fine.

The number of applicants is increasing (although still lower than it was in the 80's) and new schools are opening up everywhere. Older dentists aren't retiring at the staggering rate initially predicted, but there is still expected to be a demand for dentists over the next 10 years. I think the golden years of dentists pulling in jaw-dropping amounts of money on a 3 1/2 day work week are over but there is still plenty of room to make a comfortable living in this field - or so I hope.

 

[charlestweed]

Will there still be a shortage of dentists by 2017-2018, or do you expect a surplus at some point?

There is a surplus right now in my state, California. We have a new dental school, Western University, that will graduate its first class in 2013….so this school alone will produce at least 200 more new dentists by 2017-2018. And this is just from one new school. There have been at least 10 new dental schools that opened since the late 90s.

Existing dental schools contribute to this oversatuation problem as well. They (Louisville dental school is one of them) expand their clinics so they can accept more students. Many existing schools start the international programs for the foreign trained dentists.

 

[setupben]

Some states are getting to many dentists, like Utah, but others are having such a shortage that mid-level providers are starting to appear.

I think that as a dentist you should have a comfortable lifestyle, but expect to work hard during school and after.

 

[Daurang]

There is a surplus right now in my state, California. We have a new dental school, Western University, that will graduate its first class in 2013….so this school alone will produce at least 200 more new dentists by 2017-2018. And this is just from one new school. There have been at least 10 new dental schools that opened since the late 90s.

Existing dental schools contribute to this oversatuation problem as well. They (Louisville dental school is one of them) expand their clinics so they can accept more students. Many existing schools start the international programs for the foreign trained dentists.

Didn't California recently also gave accreditation to a dental school in Mexico and India? So are they allowed to come practice in Calif when they graduate from their country? As I understand it these foreign accredited dentist come right out of their high school into their dental school and so have minimal student loan; wouldn't they undercut and destroy the already saturated Calif. dentists market? 😡

 

[BlueToothHunter]

Didn't California recently also gave accreditation to a dental school in Mexico and India? So are they allowed to come practice in Calif when they graduate from their country? As I understand it these foreign accredited dentist come right out of their high school into their dental school and so have minimal student loan; wouldn't they undercut and destroy the already saturated Calif. dentists market? 😡

Not to worry, these (foreign trained) dentists will start demanding reciprocity and move to other states!

 

[pixidust]

There can never be a surplus of dentists because there are so many places in the country that still lack dental care (aka. your lovely underserved areas). It's just a matter of where dentists prefer to practice, which happens to be in the heavily saturated cities.

 

[persenmi]

The question I keep asking myself is, "Will people have enough money to PAY for dental care in the future." I think it's obvious that the standard of living in this country in on the decline and when it comes down to it, there will be fewer people who will be able to afford dental work. There will always be a demand for dentists, however, without a healthy middle class, the earning capacity for a dentist (or any professional) is greatly diminished. I don't think the quantity of dentists is going to be as much of an issue as quantity of paying customers.

 

[yappy]

My thoughts exactly - kinda. There also exists a cultural problem where dentistry and health care is almost viewed as an annoying/costly service rather than something of true value that is needed to continue to lead a pain-free-productive-life.

I see this when some of my friends have no problem paying that 100$/month I-phone bill along with the initial 100-200$ purchase, or dont bat-an-eye buying 6-10 dollar drinks every friday; yet, that catastrophic insurance at 70/month (medical) or that 90 dollar cleaning twice a year is just "too much!"

For many it's not that they lack the ability to pay - it's the opportunity cost associated with paying for dentistry and medicine: there was that toy/car/food/drink/vacation/hobby/financial goal they wanted instead.

Dentists need to pull a Henry Ford and provide financing options to patients. Most people live on the monthly budget schedule rather than saving for nominal costs. So if you can provide that filling for as little as 15$/mo over the course of 12 months all the sudden it becomes much more palatable. Of course, you would be paid directly and the loan company would collect the loan amount plus interest and be responsible for missed payments 😉

The question I keep asking myself is, "Will people have enough money to PAY for dental care in the future." I think it's obvious that the standard of living in this country in on the decline and when it comes down to it, there will be fewer people who will be able to afford dental work. There will always be a demand for dentists, however, without a healthy middle class, the earning capacity for a dentist (or any professional) is greatly diminished. I don't think the quantity of dentists is going to be as much of an issue as quantity of paying customers.

 

[persenmi]

So if you can provide that filling for as little as 15$/mo over the course of 12 months all the sudden it becomes much more palatable. Of course, you would be paid directly and the loan company would collect the loan amount plus interest and be responsible for missed payments 😉

👍👍👍 I was discussing this with a classmate just the other day. We were trying to figure how to provide payment plans to patients without being the "lender" ourselves. I absolutely plan on doing this.

 

[beannaithe]

👍👍👍 I was discussing this with a classmate just the other day. We were trying to figure how to provide payment plans to patients without being the "lender" ourselves. I absolutely plan on doing this.

There is something like that already. It's called CareCredit. The patient takes out financing of the cost of the treatment plan at percentages ranging from 5% - 19% and they have 2 - 5 years to pay off. They have to go through the same credit check as someone getting a credit card does. It's a very nice way to offer financing. Only thing that sucks is that CareCredit's cut from the dentist can be up to 10% of the cost of the treatment plan.

I'm an associate in a very heavy PPO office and we're getting record numbers of new patients. I think the mentality is switching from paying out of pocket to maximizing insurance benefits. Definitely need to work harder then the fee for service guys, but there is no lack of patients who need care. Most people can find $300 copay for a new crown (almost always on credit card) whereas $1200 at a fee for service office might be too much in this economy. People will always find the money if it is a necessity (ie pain or doesn't like the way they look) and important to them. Unfortunately, it's up to you to help your patients realize and make their dental care a priority.

 

[JLum]

The question I keep asking myself is, "Will people have enough money to PAY for dental care in the future." I think it's obvious that the standard of living in this country in on the decline and when it comes down to it, there will be fewer people who will be able to afford dental work. There will always be a demand for dentists, however, without a healthy middle class, the earning capacity for a dentist (or any professional) is greatly diminished. I don't think the quantity of dentists is going to be as much of an issue as quantity of paying customers.

I keep liking you more...

 

[charlestweed]

There is something like that already. It's called CareCredit. The patient takes out financing of the cost of the treatment plan at percentages ranging from 5% - 19% and they have 2 - 5 years to pay off. They have to go through the same credit check as someone getting a credit card does. It's a very nice way to offer financing. Only thing that sucks is that CareCredit's cut from the dentist can be up to 10% of the cost of the treatment plan.

I’d rather lose the 10% to the CareCredit company than losing the patient because he/she can’t afford the expensive recommended treatments. The problem is it is getting more and more difficult for the patients to get the approval. The patients must have very good credit.

My wife uses CareCredit but I don’t. All 3 of my ortho offices have offered an interest-free payment plan for all of my patients. With just a $200-300 down payment, the patients can get braces at my offices…no credit check required. Even with such flexible payment plan and our ridiculously low fees (way below the national average), many parents still have hard times paying for their kids’ ortho treatments. We’ve seen a steady decline in productions and collections since 2008. I have to reduce the overhead by cutting my staff salaries (stop hiring 2 of my PT assistants) and starting to make our own ortho appliances (instead of sending the cases out to the lab).

 

[wigglytooth]

I'd rather lose the 10% to the CareCredit company than losing the patient because he/she can't afford the expensive recommended treatments. The problem is it is getting more and more difficult for the patients to get the approval. The patients must have very good credit.

My wife uses CareCredit but I don't. All 3 of my ortho offices have offered an interest-free payment plan for all of my patients. With just a $200-300 down payment, the patients can get braces at my offices…no credit check required. Even with such flexible payment plan and our ridiculously low fees (way below the national average), many parents still have hard times paying for their kids' ortho treatments. We've seen a steady decline in productions and collections since 2008. I have to reduce the overhead by cutting my staff salaries (stop hiring 2 of my PT assistants) and starting to make our own ortho appliances (instead of sending the cases out to the lab).

Food for thought from an attending: "You are not a bank, you're a dentist."
It's nice that you set up such a payment plan for your patients, essentially a loan without interest, and it's great that you're lowering a common barrier to care for your patients - but I feel like you're taking on a lot of financial risk in that situation. Those who study the economic situation constantly (banks) do not feel comfortable taking this risk, so does it make sense for a dentist to take on this risk? If you are declining financially by effectively acting as a bank, then are you really going to be able to be out there helping your patients to the best of your ability?

There's no magic bullet for addressing the issues during the times we are in, but I just wanted to put those thoughts out there.

 

[charlestweed]

Food for thought from an attending: "You are not a bank, you're a dentist."
It's nice that you set up such a payment plan for your patients, essentially a loan without interest, and it's great that you're lowering a common barrier to care for your patients - but I feel like you're taking on a lot of financial risk in that situation. Those who study the economic situation constantly (banks) do not feel comfortable taking this risk, so does it make sense for a dentist to take on this risk? If you are declining financially by effectively acting as a bank, then are you really going to be able to be out there helping your patients to the best of your ability?

There's no magic bullet for addressing the issues during the times we are in, but I just wanted to put those thoughts out there.

Well, you lose money also when you lose the patients because they can’t afford your high treatment fees. I’d rather be busy and work for less than siting around doing nothing. It is actually more stressful for me to watch the staff members sitting around doing nothing and I have to pay them for that.

The cool thing about ortho is patients can’t avoid paying me because they need to see me every month to get their braces adjusted. They can’t just seek care at another ortho office down the street.

CareCredit is a wonderful thing because it helps both the patients and dentists. Unfortunately, many patients get denied because of low credit scores. For those patients, my wife lets the patients pay 1/2 at the implant placement appointment and she collects the other 1/2 at the second stage surgery appointment. And the patients go tell their referring dentists how much they like her office because it is the only perio office in the area that offers reasonable fees and flexible payment option. That’s how she keeps the patients and makes the referring GPs happy.