PhD/PsyD Careers in mental health and notes on what to avoid in a program

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Lol if a person is making career decisions exclusively from the advice and opinions from people on anonymous Internet forums, I think they have much bigger problems to contend with.
Sure. On the other hand, I think blasé attitudes about vast swaths of the country does have a broader effect in aggregate. One random Internet stranger won't change an applicant's mind, but many people spreading the idea that e.g. the Deep South is egregiously racist results in the prejudiced notion that the Deep South is this unacceptable place for BIPOC students. That notion completely ignores that there are good reasons to attend grad school in the South, or it even puts supposedly progressive areas like the West Coast and Northeast on a pedestal when racism exists in those regions, too. It's not uncommon to hear people of color talk about how racism presents differently (or more insidiously) than the more overt form in some areas of the Midwest and South.

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Lol it’s up to the programs and places to make themselves more attractive to recruit and retain students from non-dominant communities. Not the responsibility of those applicants or students to do so.
Not what I was saying at all.

A matriculating student was actively trying to deter applicants from looking at those programs and seeing what, if any, policies and efforts they've made to be more inclusive, accepting, equitable, and diverse simply on the basis of the state or region in which those programs are located. They are actively harming these applicants by getting them to ignore programs that would be good matches for their goals and interests and which have robust DEI policies and efforts.

Lol if a person is making career decisions exclusively from the advice and opinions from people on anonymous Internet forums, I think they have much bigger problems to contend with.
Seeing how people from marginalized communities are generally underrepresented in these areas, having less mentoring and support, fewer resources, etc., it's fairly ironic to be posting this while chastising others in this manner.

And it's not just about a single anonymous person online telling them these things. These views are prevalent online and offline and have been present for decades, irrespective of their veracity. So, between the material disparities between dominant and marginalized groups and all these voices online and offline telling these applicants these simplistic views, it's easy for applicants to be steered in the wrong direction and hurt their own chances of admission and great experiences.

Sure. On the other hand, I think blasé attitudes about vast swaths of the country does have a broader effect in aggregate. One random Internet stranger won't change an applicant's mind, but many people spreading the idea that e.g. the Deep South is egregiously racist results in the prejudiced notion that the Deep South is this unacceptable place for BIPOC students. That notion completely ignores that there are good reasons to attend grad school in the South, or it even puts supposedly progressive areas like the West Coast and Northeast on a pedestal when racism exists in those regions, too. It's not uncommon to hear people of color talk about how racism presents differently (or more insidiously) than the more overt form in some areas of the Midwest and South.
Exactly. The heuristic that only major metro areas on the coasts and in Blue states are acceptable for students from marginalized groups belies both progressive attitudes in the Red state metro areas where doctoral programs would be and regressive attitudes and systemic reactionary views in those Blue areas stereotypically viewed as more progressive (e.g., NYC Stop and Frisk).
 
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Sure. On the other hand, I think blasé attitudes about vast swaths of the country does have a broader effect in aggregate. One random Internet stranger won't change an applicant's mind, but many people spreading the idea that e.g. the Deep South is egregiously racist results in the prejudiced notion that the Deep South is this unacceptable place for BIPOC students. That notion completely ignores that there are good reasons to attend grad school in the South, or it even puts supposedly progressive areas like the West Coast and Northeast on a pedestal when racism exists in those regions, too. It's not uncommon to hear people of color talk about how racism presents differently (or more insidiously) than the more overt form in some areas of the Midwest and South.
I have nuanced agreement and disagreement to this that I don’t care to get into. Sure, it’s understandable to be frustrated or annoyed when internet people make grand or misleading or incorrect statements or when they make statements that you disagree with. I’m just saying ok, yes, and? I hope that people make decisions and pursue lines of inquiry from additional data points besides the opinions of internet people/bots. :shrug:
 
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I have nuanced agreement and disagreement to this that I don’t care to get into. Sure, it’s understandable to be frustrated or annoyed when internet people make grand or misleading or incorrect statements or when they make statements that you disagree with. I’m just saying ok, yes, and? I hope that people make decisions and pursue lines of inquiry from additional data points besides the opinions of internet people/bots. :shrug:
Except that reasoning is not limited to "internet people/bots," which means that these applicants are getting data points from multiple contexts telling them the same nonsense.
 
Except that reasoning is not limited to "internet people/bots," which means that these applicants are getting data points from multiple contexts telling them the same nonsense.
Yes, absolutely. The same holds for thoughts and opinions from people in real life. And for all applicants, not just non-white ones. And for all thoughts and opinions, not just ones about the viability of certain programs or areas or states for whatever metrics of interest. Overall, my wish for all of us about everything is to use the data points given to us, the data points we pursue, data that we already have and critical thinking to arrive at decisions we think might serve us. Then I wish for us to be open to pursuing that decision and subsequently using data we gain to continue to direct our decisions and onward.

Just like the guide on this thread that this person is pulling together is one data point people can choose to utilize and attend to as much as they want. Or the Reddit thread you’ve referenced or their parents’ opinion or whatever. And certainly, you can’t know what you don’t know until you know it. Even still, I’m not sure how receiving other people’s opinions precludes someone from pursuing info on their own and going from there. We all have agency.

Edit/Addition bc it’s remained unsettling to me: it’s weird tho bc it’s almost like you’re arguing that “these applicants” don’t have the capacity or have less capacity and/or less agency than white applicants (??) to critically examine information they have been presented or to make choices that serve them.. and that because of that, you need to ..protect (?) them from the “nonsense” they are getting from multiple contexts. Sure, it follows that you’d provide your own perspective if you disagree with one that’s been offered, and you’d be frustrated or annoyed that others are as emphatic as you about a position you disagree with, but if you believed in equal agency, it would end there.. no? Because without force or viable threat of force, no one or no thing can make anyone do any thing.
 
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Hello, all! Myself and few others over at Reddit are tired of getting the exact same questions about routes one can take to practice therapy or work in mental health, as well as questions regarding PsyD vs PhD, and about specific institutions which are notoriously predatory. To help combat this and lessen the repetition of the forum, we are creating a "Careers in Mental Health Omnibus" and a "Program Red Flags" guide. I would love solicit feedback on the documents we are compiling, particularly the notes on what program characteristics can be thought of as red flags! (Feel free to provide any feedback about these documents. These are very, very rough drafts written in a total of 2 work days by myself, so they are heavy on content but light on being well-organized and edited). Thanks, everyone!

Note: These are meant to be a tad snarky and light-hearted, but if the snark needs toning down, please let me know.



Editing to add a second version of the first link...this version is still a work in progress but is based on feedback received here and elsewhere. Note that I am still in the midst of adding feedback, so some stuff mentioned here may not be present yet.

Hi. Upon v basic scan and review of the outline, this seems quite comprehensive. It’s clear you put a lot of work into it. One note of feedback that I have is to add a who am I/how this guide came together or was sourced/which perspectives are present or more dominant and which may be absent or less well represented.. a “positionality statement” of sorts. Pardon if something like this is present and I missed it. I didn’t see anything like it in the intro to the doc.
 
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Hi. Upon v basic scan and review of the outline, this seems quite comprehensive. It’s clear you put a lot of work into it. One note of feedback that I have is to add a who am I/how this guide came together or was sourced/which perspectives are present or more dominant and which may be absent or less well represented.. a “positionality statement” of sorts. Pardon if something like this is present and I missed it. I didn’t see anything like it in the intro to the doc.
Thank you! The document on good and bad signs in a program is nowhere near complete, and I will probably eventually get rid of language like “predatory.” The Careers in Mental Health Omnibus form (the second version, not the first one) is near where I want it to be, but I will be sure to add a little sketch on how it came together. To maintain anonymity at this time, I probably won’t do a bio sketch, but a blurb on how the guide came together is a fantastic idea.
 
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I would generally avoid and give a grain of salt to much on Reddit in regard to matters such as this. And many of these "guides."
 
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