Caribbean MD or US DDS/DMD?

[gethscout]

Hello!

I've been browsing the forum for weeks now gleaning insight on my dilemma. I've chosen to post in the Caribbean subsection since it has the most traffic in the International forums. Here goes:

Is it really an option any more these days to go a Caribbean (or any European / Asian that offers at least one year of US rotations) medical school and expect even a mid-tier primary care residency? I was accepted to a private dental school last year and deferred admission for 2013 because I wanted to open up my options more and see if I can get into medical school. Well, I applied to Ross last month (MCAT: 24M) and was accepted for Jan 2013 semester. I'd be happy going into either career path but find medicine more attractive for various reasons. However, I'm having serious reservations about all I've been reading regarding the 2016/2017 outlook for USIMGs and residency spots.

As I've stated earlier, I'd be perfectly happy with pursuing either dentistry or medicine. I'm more concerned about the safety, if you will, of going the USIMG route with all the speculation that's been going on regarding the viability of matching successfully. Another thing, tuition would probably come out cheaper at Ross over the four years (NYU Dental School is nearly $400K with COL added).

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[235009]

it's better to be at an institution that is respected within the field and have all the door open to you when you start rather than starting at a third rate institution with a bad reputation. go to the dental school and don't look back. from there you'll have choices whereas going to Ross with a 24 MCAT there is a very real chance that you will fail out or you will just be an average student which at ross means you may not match (and certainly won't match at the mid-tier IM programs which the best ross students strive for).

ross has a lot of hidden costs. one of which is that of living in a third world country for 2 years where you do not enjoy amenities that we take for granted in america and the other is having to travel all over the country to do rotations during 3rd and 4th year.

 

[Unzbuzzled]

like skinMD said, go to D-school. You would be far better off doing that rather than heading offshore. If you don't think dentistry is what you really want to do, you can always retake your MCAT and try for a US MD school. Bottom line, don't do medicine unless you get into a school in the states. If you can't do that, stick with dentistry. It's a fantastic career and will be far less stressful than going to the caribb for a backdoor MD degree.

 

[bedevilled ben]

I think the first thing you want to do is figure out which field you want to end up in. I'm sure there's overlap, but I suspect practicing medicine versus practicing dentistry is pretty different in the day-to-day. Don't go into one or the other based on the school you got accepted, that's silly.

That being said, the situation for Caribbean students is pretty up in the air right now. Newly-opening US med schools coupled with the stagnant number of residency spots makes for a tenuous future for us. I don't know the specifics for Ross, but SGU still has pretty solid placement (assuming you don't bomb the Steps). Uncertainty regarding healthcare reform also fuels the situation. Increased funding may mean more residency spots, and a growing elderly population may increase demand for physicians. Those are big "maybes" though, and nobody really knows how it will ultimately pan out.

Take advice from SD with a grain of salt (including mine). There is a lot of BS-slinging around here.

 

[laricb]

ROSS and SGU are top notch medical schools and you will probably come out better prepared then a U.S. medical school student, and if you blow away your step 1 test it wont matter where you went to school you will get whatever residency you want. Guys like skinmd put all Caribbean schools in the same basket

 

[235009]

ROSS and SGU are top notch medical schools and you will probably come out better prepared then a U.S. medical school student, and if you blow away your step 1 test it wont matter where you went to school you will get whatever residency you want. Guys like skinmd put all Caribbean schools in the same basket

SGU is a respectable program but unlike US MD schools they don't care whether you sink or swim and they expect a significant portion of their students will fail out before getting to the clinical years. Other than SGU none of the other schools are worth your time or money.

As for residency ....competitive fields will be very difficult to break into and the top programs in most fields (except FM and maybe EM) will not even look at your application if you're not a US MD.

 

[laricb]

Your residency part is wrong I went to SGU and graduated in 2011. I applied and received a residency as a
anesthesiologist at a NYC Hospital....

 

[235009]

Your residency part is wrong I went to SGU and graduated in 2011. I applied and received a residency as a
anesthesiologist at a NYC Hospital....

"a NYC hospital" isn't necessarily a top program

 

[laricb]

where are you training or are you even a doctor....

 

[kdavidlee25]

Hello!

I've been browsing the forum for weeks now gleaning insight on my dilemma. I've chosen to post in the Caribbean subsection since it has the most traffic in the International forums. Here goes:

Is it really an option any more these days to go a Caribbean (or any European / Asian that offers at least one year of US rotations) medical school and expect even a mid-tier primary care residency? I was accepted to a private dental school last year and deferred admission for 2013 because I wanted to open up my options more and see if I can get into medical school. Well, I applied to Ross last month (MCAT: 24M) and was accepted for Jan 2013 semester. I'd be happy going into either career path but find medicine more attractive for various reasons. However, I'm having serious reservations about all I've been reading regarding the 2016/2017 outlook for USIMGs and residency spots.

As I've stated earlier, I'd be perfectly happy with pursuing either dentistry or medicine. I'm more concerned about the safety, if you will, of going the USIMG route with all the speculation that's been going on regarding the viability of matching successfully. Another thing, tuition would probably come out cheaper at Ross over the four years (NYU Dental School is nearly $400K with COL added).

it seems to me that wanting to be either a dentist or doctor means that you want to be neither.

 

[LoudBark]

it seems to me that wanting to be either a dentist or doctor means that you want to be neither.

Isn't a dentist just a doctor that subspecializes in teeth, no different than a medical doctor that subspecializes in another part of the body.

 

[kdavidlee25]

Isn't a dentist just a doctor that subspecializes in teeth, no different than a medical doctor that subspecializes in another part of the body.

dentist = another type of doctor? hmmm. i dont know about that.

 

[Temperature101]

Hello!

I've been browsing the forum for weeks now gleaning insight on my dilemma. I've chosen to post in the Caribbean subsection since it has the most traffic in the International forums. Here goes:

Is it really an option any more these days to go a Caribbean (or any European / Asian that offers at least one year of US rotations) medical school and expect even a mid-tier primary care residency? I was accepted to a private dental school last year and deferred admission for 2013 because I wanted to open up my options more and see if I can get into medical school. Well, I applied to Ross last month (MCAT: 24M) and was accepted for Jan 2013 semester. I'd be happy going into either career path but find medicine more attractive for various reasons. However, I'm having serious reservations about all I've been reading regarding the 2016/2017 outlook for USIMGs and residency spots.

As I've stated earlier, I'd be perfectly happy with pursuing either dentistry or medicine. I'm more concerned about the safety, if you will, of going the USIMG route with all the speculation that's been going on regarding the viability of matching successfully. Another thing, tuition would probably come out cheaper at Ross over the four years (NYU Dental School is nearly $400K with COL added).

I can feel from your post that you would rather go to medical school....Why not applying to DO schools assuming both your cGPA and sGPA are 3.3+?...Or you can apply to some postbacc DO programs( 1 year), which guaranteed a spot to their DO school if you mantain a 3.0 GPA... I know LECOM has a program like that and is very cheap. If you are on the fence about dentistry and medicine, I think medicine is a safer bet.

 

[Dionysus007]

"a NYC hospital" isn't necessarily a top program

How many US MDs/DOs get into a top program? Yes, the number is definitely (or probably) a lot more than those from SGU/Ross. But not EVERY ONE of them gets into a top program.

 

[235009]

How many US MDs/DOs get into a top program? Yes, the number is definitely (or probably) a lot more than those from SGU/Ross. But not EVERY ONE of them gets into a top program.

Its nice to have that be the maximum potential you can achieve rather than having the best you can do be a mid-tier program because in the first scenario the average or below average candidate still matches into a solid program whereas in the second scenario an average or below average candidate doesn't match or ends up at some community program in an undesirable location.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

 

[gethscout]

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[medhope4]

Here is my opinion on this, and again, I am also debating about going to Dental School or to the Carib.

Given that you have gotten into dental school, albeit a large school in NYU, you should have no problem suceeding in a medical school like Ross. I believe you are going to be fine there. And if you do well there, you shouldn't have much problem at all matching into IM, or FM. If that is what you are going for. Now if you want to get into something else like Derm, Ortho, Anethes, etc, it is doable, but sure it is going to be more competetive. If possible, a DO would be a better route. But with hard work, I'm sure it can be down from a school like Ross.

If you go to dental school, know that you are most likely going to be a general dentist. That is fine because you can learn ortho, dermal fillers etc on the side and still make good money. But specializing in dentistry is quite difficult. Also, my father is a dentist and complains about NYU students all the time, saying they have very poor clinical skills. My uncle, also a dentisty, concurs with him. So take that FWIW.

There is nothing wrong with contemplating between the two, and the poster who disagreed with that can go kick rocks. But my advice is to pick which one you'd rather do and go with that.

 

[kdavidlee25]

I disagree. Liking or wanting two comparable things does not mean I want neither. If I want either a Mercedes-Benz E55 or a BMW M5 does that mean I want neither? There is significant overlap between medicine and dentistry more so than many other doctoral-level health profession (e.g. podiatry, physical therapy, etc).

Well. I hope I'm wrong, for your sake. Because you don't see a lot of med students thinking to themselves, "Ohhh, I wish I'd had gone to dental school."

If it was up to me, I would have used a Rolls Royce v. Bentley analogy instead; their cost is more comparable to that of a medical / dental education. ***I'm sure one of you will check the actual costs to see if my analogy is apt.***

 

[Unzbuzzled]

You could always do a pre-MD SMP program. I did that last year, and I got into a US MD school without a glide year. One of my closest friends in that program decided dentistry was his thing, so he ended up going to dental school at UIC and he absolutely loves it. An SMP program allows you to actually take medical classes, and if you get at least Bs, you're offered a spot in the next years' MD class. It seems like you might benefit from a program like this if you don't get accepted to a US MD school and are still on the fence between medicine and dentistry.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

I disagree. Liking or wanting two comparable things does not mean I want neither. If I want either a Mercedes-Benz E55 or a BMW M5 does that mean I want neither? There is significant overlap between medicine and dentistry more so than many other doctoral-level health profession (e.g. podiatry, physical therapy, etc).

????

I guarantee you that podiatry is closer to "medicine" than is dentistry.... dentists (oms excluded) do not do musculoskeletal surgery, typically ever do an H&P, round at hospitals, order labs, etc etc.

The majority of a dentist's work is drilling filling and billing - where is the "medicine" in that? Don't get me wrong, I love dentistry (look at my screen name!), but to suggest that podiatry is somehow more removed from "medicine" than dentistry is incorrect, imo.

 

[Unzbuzzled]

????

I guarantee you that podiatry is closer to "medicine" than is dentistry.... dentists (oms excluded) do not do musculoskeletal surgery, typically ever do an H&P, round at hospitals, order labs, etc etc.

The majority of a dentist's work is drilling filling and billing - where is the "medicine" in that? Don't get me wrong, I love dentistry (look at my screen name!), but to suggest that podiatry is somehow more removed from "medicine" than dentistry is incorrect, imo.

Maxillofacial's right. Most people don't know what a podiatrist's training entails, but it's very similar to medical school, just a bit more focused on the lower extremity. My medical school has a podiatry program, and they take gross anatomy together with us, as well as histology, clinical essentials, and other core classes. And they rotate in the hospitals and do a whole lotta stuff just like we do. If medicine is baseball, podiatry is cricket, and dentistry is water polo.

OP, I really think you should take a look as SMPs. While dentistry is a great career, it seems like you want medicine. If that's the case, you won't be able to sleep at night in dental school, and there are lots of kids who would take your dental school seat and be passionate about it. Heck, if you can see yourself as a surgeon, maybe even apply to some podiatry schools

 

[gethscout]

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[MaxillofacialMN]

Apologies about lumping podiatry in with pharm, opto, etc. I was looking at the dentistry-medicine synergy from the perspective of reading about how many dental and medical schools have students mixed together during years 1 and 2 but thanks for pointing out and reminding me that podiatry students are mixed in there, too (it slipped my mind during my initial post). Also, I was keeping in mind the bastard stepchild specialty of oral and maxillofacial surgery, namely the six-year MD granting programs, that encompass both medicine and dentistry.

Unbuzzled, could you point me in the direction of some post-bacc programs that have strong linkages to MD schools? Regarding SMPs linked to medical schools, I already have a science MS degree - I wish I looked at SMPs closer back in 2008 but I was firmly gunning for dentistry at that point back then and did a five-year BS/MS program (engineering).

No worries, I wasn't offended or anything, I just wanted to share my opinion that podiatry is a much closer alternative to medicine than dentistry is.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Maxillofacial's right. Most people don't know what a podiatrist's training entails, but it's very similar to medical school, just a bit more focused on the lower extremity. My medical school has a podiatry program, and they take gross anatomy together with us, as well as histology, clinical essentials, and other core classes. And they rotate in the hospitals and do a whole lotta stuff just like we do. If medicine is baseball, podiatry is cricket, and dentistry is water polo.

OP, I really think you should take a look as SMPs. While dentistry is a great career, it seems like you want medicine. If that's the case, you won't be able to sleep at night in dental school, and there are lots of kids who would take your dental school seat and be passionate about it. Heck, if you can see yourself as a surgeon, maybe even apply to some podiatry schools

Are you at RFU? I'm interviewing there next Thursday!

 

[Unzbuzzled]

Unbuzzled, could you point me in the direction of some post-bacc programs that have strong linkages to MD schools? Regarding SMPs linked to medical schools, I already have a science MS degree - I wish I looked at SMPs closer back in 2008 but I was firmly gunning for dentistry at that point back then and did a five-year BS/MS program (engineering).

I don't know too much about post-baccs, but if it's an SMP you want, go to either RFUMS or EVMS. Those are the two that have the highest linkages. Other than that, Drexel, UCinn, GWU and BU all have SMPs, but none have the linkage numbers as the two former schools. I understand you already have an MS degree, but let's be honest: a Masters degree doesn't mean squat compared to an MD: you will be completing the SMP not for the degree but for where it'll place you.

Are you at RFU? I'm interviewing there next Thursday!

Yup! Best of luck! If you end up here, PM me if you need anything

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Hello!

I've been browsing the forum for weeks now gleaning insight on my dilemma. I've chosen to post in the Caribbean subsection since it has the most traffic in the International forums. Here goes:

Is it really an option any more these days to go a Caribbean (or any European / Asian that offers at least one year of US rotations) medical school and expect even a mid-tier primary care residency? I was accepted to a private dental school last year and deferred admission for 2013 because I wanted to open up my options more and see if I can get into medical school. Well, I applied to Ross last month (MCAT: 24M) and was accepted for Jan 2013 semester. I'd be happy going into either career path but find medicine more attractive for various reasons. However, I'm having serious reservations about all I've been reading regarding the 2016/2017 outlook for USIMGs and residency spots.

As I've stated earlier, I'd be perfectly happy with pursuing either dentistry or medicine. I'm more concerned about the safety, if you will, of going the USIMG route with all the speculation that's been going on regarding the viability of matching successfully. Another thing, tuition would probably come out cheaper at Ross over the four years (NYU Dental School is nearly $400K with COL added).

Greetings,

If you like medicine, then it is better to go offshore MD than doing dentistry. You may end up in family medicine but at least it allows you to practice medicine. Dentistry is different from medicine in the nature of work. Regarding dental admission, you should also know that gaining admission to DS is not easy and finishing a program even tougher. If you can get into DS, you should be able to get in DO or even some MD schools. Dentistry however is not all about drilling and filling because there are 9 different speciaties that one can pursue. My specialty is maxillofacial prosthodontics and I reconstruct people prosthetically in the maxillofacial area (defects in the oral as well as in the facial area). I am now reconstructing a person with a large maxillary sinus and nose defect to allow him to go in public without embarassment as well as allowing him to eat without leakage. I don't go on rounds,order labs, doing massive surgeries, H&P but I provide such a vital service that affects the person's well being comparable with any medical procedures that he may have had. DP

 

[Temperature101]

Greetings,

If you like medicine, then it is better to go offshore MD than doing dentistry. You may end up in family medicine but at least it allows you to practice medicine. Dentistry is different from medicine in the nature of work. Regarding dental admission, you should also know that gaining admission to DS is not easy and finishing a program even tougher. If you can get into DS, you should be able to get in DO or even some MD schools. Dentistry however is not all about drilling and filling because there are 9 different speciaties that one can pursue. My specialty is maxillofacial prosthodontics and I reconstruct people prosthetically in the maxillofacial area (defects in the oral as well as in the facial area). I am now reconstructing a person with a large maxillary sinus and nose defect to allow him to go in public without embarassment as well as allowing him to eat without leakage. I don't go on rounds,order labs, doing massive surgeries, H&P but I provide such a vital service that affects the person's well being comparable with any medical procedures that he may have had. DP

Not sure if you are correct on that one...DAT =/= MCAT.

 

[Unzbuzzled]

Not sure if you are correct on that one...DAT =/= MCAT.

The MCAT is not dissimilar from the DAT in terms of general concepts and endurance. Also, in general, if your grades and extracurriculars are good enough for dental school, they're probably good enough for a few US MD schools. Both careers are highly competitive and very rewarding. I think that's all Dr. Dai Phan was saying.

 

[gethscout]