Caribbean medical student

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

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[CidHighwind]

Lot of questions/comments I have, but basically

1. Everyone teaches themselves in medical school.
2. Without knowing how you did on Step1/Step2, there’s no way to know how you’d do. There’s actually a good amount of people from those schools that go on to match somewhere.
3. What do you want to go into?

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

Lot of questions/comments I have, but basically

1. Everyone teaches themselves in medical school.
2. Without knowing how you did on Step1/Step2, there’s no way to know how you’d fair. There’s actually a good amount of people from those schools that go on to match somewhere.
3. What do you want to go into?

Hi CidHighwind, 2- I got 210 on step 1, and I'm still studying for step 2 ck. I will be taking it soon. I'm studying more for step 2 ck to make sure that I won't fail, and get a decent score this time. 3- I want to go into family medicine as I'm more fascinated by preventive and screening medicine.

 

[CidHighwind]

I mean, you definitely need to do much better on Step 2. It’s hard for anyone on here to say 100%, but yeah, matching will be difficult. Even still, a lot of Caribbean students are able to match somewhere and practice medicine. How flexible are you with location?

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

I'm flexible to practice medicine anywhere in the country. I'm even thinking of practicing medicine overseas if it is possible, that is how flexible Iam with location because practicing medicine is my first priority in life, but that is plan B.
I'm doing other sets of questions in addition to Uworld to hopefully score better on step 2. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and concerns.

 

[jurassicpark]

I'm a little surprised, it almost seems as if you're just figuring out how disadvantaged you are coming from a Caribbean school to the Match this late in the game. You also didn't mention if you are a US-Citizen or in need of a visa. The latter will compound the difficulties by magnitudes.

Your Step 1 score isn't the best unfortunately but not horrible. Family medicine is definitely do-able, but as mentioned you have to be flexible. It's also going to depend on the rest of your scores (and for that matter also which Caribbean school you graduated from as well). Audition rotations are also very important for your fourth year, as residency programs would be more willing to take on a Caribbean student if they know they're good.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

During some of my clinical rotations, some doctors made it clear that it will be very hard to get a residency spot. They made it very clear that we as Caribbean medical students might be lucky to get into family medicine or internal medicine as it is becoming more difficult than before.

I am confused... did you not know this before you went to a Caribbean medical school? It’s like... the number one warning that people get.

 

[libertyyne]

~60% match in either specialty.

You should be building connections and be apply broadly if you wish you match.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

I'm a little surprised, it almost seems as if you're just figuring out how disadvantaged you are coming from a Caribbean school to the Match this late in the game. You also didn't mention if you are a US-Citizen or in need of a visa. The latter will compound the difficulties by magnitudes.

Your Step 1 score isn't the best unfortunately but not horrible. Family medicine is definitely do-able, but as mentioned you have to be flexible. It's also going to depend on the rest of your scores (and for that matter also which Caribbean school you graduated from as well). Audition rotations are also very important for your fourth year, as residency programs would be more willing to take on a Caribbean student if they know they're good.

Well, this is how the story began. Once I finished my bachelors in the U.S, I wanted to improve my GPA and also get into masters. Then I try to apply for medical school in the U.S. During the process, I talked to a relative( distant relative). He is much older than me. He went into medical school in the Caribbean and graduated. Then he was able to get a residency spot in the U.S. He encouraged me to do the same thing if I'm motivated enough and Ready to work as hard as he did. I did my own research on Caribbean schools as well. I found out a lot of inputs describing the quality of education there. So, I already know the difficulties that I will encounter. However, witnessing a live example ( my relative) coming from a Caribbean school, I was thinking it is fairly possible. I ended up going there, passing my usmle step 1, and doing my third, forth rotations in the U.S. During my third , and especially my forth rotations, I got to know some doctors well. They were honestly telling me it is very difficult to match even for family medicine. So, I knew that, but I didn't know it was that bad.
Regarding citizenship, I have dual citizenship. I'm a U.S citizen as well. Now, I'm now near graduation and trying hard to get a better score on step 2 ck.

Thank you for you input, I highly appreciate it.

 

[jurassicpark]

Well, this is how the story began. Once I finished my bachelors in the U.S, I wanted to improve my GPA and also get into masters. Then I try to apply for medical school in the U.S. During the process, I talked to a relative( distant relative). He is much older than me. He went into medical school in the Caribbean and graduated. Then he was able to get a residency spot in the U.S. He encouraged me to do the same thing if I'm motivated enough and Ready to work as hard as he did. I did my own research on Caribbean schools as well. I found out a lot of inputs describing the quality of education there. So, I already know the difficulties that I will encounter. However, witnessing a live example ( my relative) coming from a Caribbean school, I was thinking it is fairly possible. I ended up going there, passing my usmle step 1, and doing my third, forth rotations in the U.S. During my third , and especially my forth rotations, I got to know some doctors well. They were honestly telling me it is very difficult to match even for family medicine. So, I knew that, but I didn't know it was that bad.
Regarding citizenship, I have dual citizenship. I'm a U.S citizen as well. Now, I'm now near graduation and trying hard to get a better score on step 2 ck.

Thank you for you input, I highly appreciate it.

Unfortunately, to me that really sounds like you didn't do any due diligence at all prior to going to the Caribbean. If you had known this information beforehand, would you have done things differently?

Which Caribbean school did you end up choosing? Hopefully someone also told you about how important the choice of Caribbean medical school is as well to licenses in certain states as well as reputation (ie for match)?

 

[studentdocftw]

All you can do is apply and see what happens. I'd imagine it is a coin flip either way..but apply to as many programs as you can afford and hope for the best.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

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~60% match in either specialty.

You should be building connections and be apply broadly if you wish you match.

Thank you, that was really helpful. yes, I will.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

I am confused... did you not know this before you went to a Caribbean medical school? It’s like... the number one warning that people get.

As I mentioned in another comment , I knew it was difficult, but I didn't realize back then it was very difficult. Thank you.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

All you can do is apply and see what happens. I'd imagine it is a coin flip either way..but apply to as many programs as you can afford and hope for the best.

yes I will definitely apply to many programs. Thank you, appreciated.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

Unfortunately, to me that really sounds like you didn't do any due diligence at all prior to going to the Caribbean. If you had known this information beforehand, would you have done things differently?

Which Caribbean school did you end up choosing? Hopefully someone also told you about how important the choice of Caribbean medical school is as well to licenses in certain states as well as reputation (ie for match)?

I would have at least tried my best to get admitted into one of the Do Schools. it might have worked. Unfortunately, I didn't go to any of the top 4 Caribbean medical schools. I went to an average one. The bright side of the story( if it is ) that I'm one of the few students who is graduating soon. Many of my classmates couldn't make it past the second year. Some of them couldn't pass the comprehensive basic science exam after the second year, or if they did, they didn't pass step 1.

 

[DO2015CA]

start and excel list and research every FM and IM program in the country. If they have carib students then apply there

 

[libertyyne]

start and excel list and research every FM and IM program in the country. If they have carib students then apply there

Almost every I'm and fm program does have Carib students. Really what OP should be searching is what programs didn't fill , or have had difficulty filling in the past. Programs that have difficulty recruiting. Programs where Alum are from his school, or PD from his school. Program that has a high proportion of patients that speak his second langauge.

 

[DO2015CA]

Almost every I'm and fm program does have Carib students. Really what OP should be searching is what programs didn't fill , or have had difficulty filling in the past. Programs out that have difficulty recruiting.

To me that just means spend all of the money to apply to everyone. Haha. Maybe not that many but last year when I was on the trail and ran into carib applicants it wasn’t uncommon for them to apply to a couple hundred programs.

 

[libertyyne]

To me that just means spend all of the money to apply to everyone. Haha. Maybe not that many but last year when I was on the trail and ran into carib applicants it wasn’t uncommon for them to apply to a couple hundred programs.

What ever it takes to get 16+ interviews.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

Almost every I'm and fm program does have Carib students. Really what OP should be searching is what programs didn't fill , or have had difficulty filling in the past. Programs that have difficulty recruiting. Programs where Alum are from his school, or PD from his school. Program that has a high proportion of patients that speak his second langauge.

Thank you both( DO 20 and liberty) for the good advice, highly appreciated.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

To me that just means spend all of the money to apply to everyone. Haha. Maybe not that many but last year when I was on the trail and ran into carib applicants it wasn’t uncommon for them to apply to a couple hundred programs.

one of my friends applied to 150 + IM. she had 2 or 3( I don't quite remember) interviews, but she didn't get accepted into any. So, yes it is funny and sad applying to more than 150 and spending too much money and not get accepted. She graduated from Mexico though.

 

[CidHighwind]

one of my friends applied to 150 + IM. she had 2 or 3( I don't quite remember) interviews, but she didn't get accepted into any. So, yes it is funny and sad applying to more than 150 and spending too much money and not get accepted. She graduated from Mexico though.

Just out of curiosity, what were her stats?

 

[samac]

You say you’re nearing the end if your training and studying for step 2?
Are you going to have a gap on your application?

 

[CoolChihuahuaChick]

Unfortunately, to me that really sounds like you didn't do any due diligence at all prior to going to the Caribbean. If you had known this information beforehand, would you have done things differently?

What a useless and pathetic reply to someone sincerely asking for current advice -

and not asking for a critique *three years earlier* when they first began medical school.

Omg, are you serious? Or stupid?
Must be both.

Be sure to pat yourself on the back for your sarcastic, sage remarks.

Love CoolChihuahuaChick

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

Just out of curiosity, what were her stats?

Just out of curiosity, what were her stats?

She didn't really tell me what her stats are. She said though that her step 1, and ck 2 were very low. So, I'm expecting below 210 for step 1 or even below 200. I'm not sure. That is why I'm trying to get a decent score on step 2 ck to improve my chances of getting a spot and not be in her position. However, she didn't give up, she is applying this cycle as well.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

You say you’re nearing the end if your training and studying for step 2?
Are you going to have a gap on your application?

yes, I will have a gap on my application. I'm applying next year.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

yes, I will have a gap on my application. I'm applying next year.

With a gap, it's my understanding that it's even harder to match.

 

[Alkain]

yes, I will have a gap on my application. I'm applying next year.

This will actually hurt you quite a bit. Can you delay graduation? Take a research year or something?

 

[ciestar]

With a gap, it's my understanding that it's even harder to match.

Much harder.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

This will actually hurt you quite a bit. Can you delay graduation? Take a research year or something?

This will actually hurt you quite a bit. Can you delay graduation? Take a research year or something?

very hard at this point as I'm already on the graduation list after passing my comprehensive clinical science exam. From now on, it is what I'm going to do with step 2 ck and the rest of my application. Thank your for your advice, appreciated.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

Much harder.

yes, it is a difficult situation here but I will give it a try.

 

[ciestar]

yes, it is a difficult situation here but I will give it a try.

Impossible if you dont try, absolutely right

 

[CidHighwind]

Could you at least set up some observerships in the states? Also your best bet may be to do a Prelim year somewhere and then have them offer you a spot for the following year.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

Could you at least set up some observerships in the states? Also your best bet may be to do a Prelim year somewhere and then have them offer you a spot for the following year.

sorry for the late reply, I have been studying. I don't know what exactly is a preliminary year. I heard about it ,but all I know it is one year internship instead of full residency. So, my question, how is different from regular residency and how do I apply for it?. Do I still apply through ERAS?. is it less difficult to get in than regular residency?. Thank you.

 

[Alkain]

sorry for the late reply, I have been studying. I don't know what exactly is a preliminary year. I heard about it ,but all I know it is one year internship instead of full residency. So, my question, how is different from regular residency and how do I apply for it?. Do I still apply through ERAS?. is it less difficult to get in than regular residency?. Thank you.

Prelim year is just a year you spend doing resident stuff. It's not a residency. Some residencies like anesthesia require a prelim year before you start the actual residency proper (i.e 1 prelim year + 3 residency years = 4 total).

If you have nothing lined up after prelim year you go back to being an applicant.

Getting any prelim spot is much easier than getting any residency spot.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

Prelim year is just a year you spend doing resident stuff. It's not a residency. Some residencies like anesthesia require a prelim year before you start the actual residency proper (i.e 1 prelim year + 3 residency years = 4 total).

If you have nothing lined up after prelim year you go back to being an applicant.

Getting any prelim spot is much easier than getting any residency spot.

how do I apply for a preliminary year then?. and what is the the other advantages of doing a preliminary year besides showing program directors that you can be a successful resident and offers you a spot. Cause, I heard some states after one year of internship, they still allow you to practice but only as a general practitioner. Thank you so much for the information.

 

[samac]

how do I apply for a preliminary year then?. and what is the the other advantages of doing a preliminary year besides showing program directors that you can be a successful resident and offers you a spot. Cause, I heard some states after one year of internship, they still allow you to practice but only as a general practitioner. Thank you so much for the information.

Don’t practice after 1 year. Insurance won’t cover your services.
It’s just a Segway into programs. The application is also through ERAS, but you’ll need to have level 2 done.

Your year off will be the hardest thing to overcome. Do well on step 2.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

Don’t practice after 1 year. Insurance won’t cover your services.
It’s just a Segway into programs. The application is also through ERAS, but you’ll need to have level 2 done.

Your year off will be the hardest thing to overcome. Do well on step 2.

I will do my best. thank you, appreciated.

 

[Alkain]

how do I apply for a preliminary year then?. and what is the the other advantages of doing a preliminary year besides showing program directors that you can be a successful resident and offers you a spot. Cause, I heard some states after one year of internship, they still allow you to practice but only as a general practitioner. Thank you so much for the information.

You apply the same way as residency.
The benefit is if you don’t get a residency, it’s much better to do a prelim year than nothing.

Someone who doesn’t match categorical but does a prelim is going to be better off than if they didn’t match then did nothing for a year.

I still say your best option right now is to delay graduation though.

 

[gyngyn]

how do I apply for a preliminary year then?. and what is the the other advantages of doing a preliminary year besides showing program directors that you can be a successful resident and offers you a spot. Cause, I heard some states after one year of internship, they still allow you to practice but only as a general practitioner. Thank you so much for the information.

A prelim year is insufficient for licensure for IMG's, but it 's still better than no match at all. It provides the opportunity for a clinical letter (for re-application).

Program's are now being sanctioned if their prelim interns do not get a categorical match at the end of the year. Thus, they are motivated for you to succeed. However, it has also made them wary of candidates perceived to be at risk.

 

[DO2015CA]

How do you know so little about GME but still ventured to an off shore medical school. Everything seems very naive

 

[Goro]

How do you know so little about GME but still ventured to an off shore medical school. Everything seems very naive

That's one of the phenotypes that drive their business model.

 

[CidHighwind]

How do you know so little about GME but still ventured to an off shore medical school. Everything seems very naive

I can somewhat understand as a Premed not knowing this stuff and making the mistake of going to those schools due to lack of options, what’s more concerning is that no one at OP’s school explained any of this stuff to him/her. You would think they’d have a mentor break all of this down for OP and maybe even have a list of where their graduates have gone in the past.

 

[DO2015CA]

I can somewhat understand as a Premed not knowing this stuff and making the mistake of going to those schools due to lack of options, what’s more concerning is that no one at OP’s school explained any of this stuff to him/her. You would think they’d have a mentor break all of this down for OP and maybe even have a list of where their graduates have gone in the past.

Medical students are obsessed with matching, Caribs even more. This is a 100% them problem not the school’s fault. It’s a very unprepared and naive view

 

[CidHighwind]

Medical students are obsessed with matching, Caribs even more. This is a 100% them problem not the school’s fault. It’s a very unprepared and naive view

Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you. What I don’t get is how did OP make it till a few weeks before apps open up but had no idea about how any of this worked. Someone should have filled them in, fellow classmates, attendings, residents, someone.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

A prelim year is insufficient for licensure for IMG's, but it 's still better than no match at all. It provides the opportunity for a clinical letter (for re-application).

Program's are now being sanctioned if their prelim interns do not get a categorical match at the end of the year. Thus, they are motivated for you to succeed. However, it has also made them wary of candidates perceived to be at risk.

Thank you for the information.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

How do you know so little about GME but still ventured to an off shore medical school. Everything seems very naive

Regardless of how much naive you think Iam, I would say I'm willing to learn.Remember, I went to an international medical school which cares less about preparing you for the U,S boards, much less to care about matching into U.S residency. Why would they care teaching you about the process of being a doctor in the U.S. I had a very rough experience there. I had so many things to worry about while I was living overseas. Living on a foreign island, wasn't easy at all. Everything was different there. Our school lacked resources in almost every aspect. We didn't have a sufficient library to study at. Many of our teachers weren't qualified to teach us the school material. I barely had to teach myself almost everything. It wasn't easy to witness your classmates failing one after another, worrying that you will the next one in line. We didn't have any good internet service. I remember some days I had to wait hours to watch a medical educational video. On top of that, we were still required to pass the NBME comprehensive basic science exam and pass step 1 exam before starting clinical rotations.. They basically don't prepare you for anything. They don't even provide you with any information , nevertheless, preparing you for anything. You would think it gets easier when a Caribbean medical student start their rotations in the U.S. We had to fight for our rotations. you don't even know where you are going, only a week or two before you start. The list goes on, but I'm only giving a taste of what is like being a Caribbean medical student.
Saying that, we had to mainly focus on our education and passing our exams.
Thank you for your comment.

 

[Usmle_Seeker2020]

That's one of the phenotypes that drive their business model.

Sir, I'm sorry to say that I really feel sorry for your patients if you were a medical student or a physician.. I didn't go into medical school in the Caribbean because it was an easier option. I didn't go there for the prestige of the profession. I didn't go there after the label( M.D.). I simply went there to study the subject I love and I always dreamed of. I'm just a regular person who is so passionate about medicine. I passed the NBME comprehensive basic science exam on my first attempt, I passed step 1 on my first attempt. I passed the NBME comprehensive clinical science exam on first attempt. I have never failed any exam in medical school, have you?. Thank you.

 

[ciestar]

Sir, I'm sorry to say that I really feel sorry for your patients if you were a medical student or a physician.. I didn't go into medical school in the Caribbean because it was an easier option. I didn't go there for the prestige of the profession. I didn't go there after the label( M.D.). I simply went there to study the subject I love and I always dreamed of. I'm just a regular person who is so passionate about medicine. I passed the NBME comprehensive basic science exam on my first attempt, I passed step 1 on my first attempt. I passed the NBME comprehensive clinical science exam on first attempt. I have never failed any exam in medical school, have you?. Thank you.

He is a phd faculty member/adcom at a DO school.

Ive failed plenty of med school exams and I am not in any danger of not matching. Your story is very similar to many stories coming out of the Carib. This is why people are warned not to do this.

 

[DO2015CA]

Regardless of how much naive you think Iam, I would say I'm willing to learn.Remember, I went to an international medical school which cares less about preparing you for the U,S boards, much less to care about matching into U.S residency. Why would they care teaching you about the process of being a doctor in the U.S. I had a very rough experience there. I had so many things to worry about while I was living overseas. Living on a foreign island, wasn't easy at all. Everything was different there. Our school lacked resources in almost every aspect. We didn't have a sufficient library to study at. Many of our teachers weren't qualified to teach us the school material. I barely had to teach myself almost everything. It wasn't easy to witness your classmates failing one after another, worrying that you will the next one in line. We didn't have any good internet service. I remember some days I had to wait hours to watch a medical educational video. On top of that, we were still required to pass the NBME comprehensive basic science exam and pass step 1 exam before starting clinical rotations.. They basically don't prepare you for anything. They don't even provide you with any information , nevertheless, preparing you for anything. You would think it gets easier when a Caribbean medical student start their rotations in the U.S. We had to fight for our rotations. you don't even know where you are going, only a week or two before you start. The list goes on, but I'm only giving a taste of what is like being a Caribbean medical student.
Saying that, we had to mainly focus on our education and passing our exams.
Thank you for your comment.

I am not saying naive to be mean. You are showing the nativity with Telling us how bad the conditions are when anyone that has researched the carib know what you are saying to be true. We don’t view carib graduates as badly just that no one should go there due to those predatory practices. If you’ve been around this forum for any time and have seen my posting on carib grads you know I am sympathetic to you. I believe all Americans should have a fair shake at residency spots as long as they are eligible and US citizens. The fact is that’s not true and it’s dumb. I get it. I have given you my best advice earlier.