Caribbean schools - Competitive??????

[klptvf]

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Can you all clear this up:

Just how easy is it to get into schools such as:
-Ross
-SABA
-AUC
-SGU


I viewed the web pages and of course the web pages make it look competitive by saying "admissions is competitive", etc.

But just how competitive is it?
Are they significantly easier than us medical schools??????

I have a 3.0 and still have to complete all the pre.reqs.
I am a non trad psychology major turned pre med.

The SABA match results list show grads matched in competitive areas. How do you think this happened?

How difficult do you think it is to match as an IMG in psychiatry? neurology?

Thanks!

 

[McGillGrad]

If you have a pulse, decent stats and a valid credit history, then you are golden.

 

[klptvf]

What is decent stats considered in terms of caribean schools exactly?

Anyone have some specific averages/numbers/etc regarding GPA/MCAT/etc for admissions to those foreign schools?

If anyone can set me straight about the match for foreign grads.
Again, SABA for example shows grads matching in Anesthesiology.

??? Thanks! 🙂

 

[McGillGrad]

3.0+ and 26+ and a great personal statement and good interviewing skills.

You will match into most anything besides the most competitive and it is directly related to

1. Connections/Networking/Elective exposure during 4th year

2. USMLE scores

Most match into FM and IM but there are good numbers that match into more competitive specialties.

Once again, it will come down to your USMLE 230+.

 

[penguins]

How difficult do you think it is to match as an IMG in psychiatry? neurology?

McGill is right on about the stats. 3.0+, 26+ and I am sure that some get accepted with even lower. Don't worry about not being traditional. I went to SMU with people from all over the career map. Psych would be considered traditional 😉
Psychiatry is really easy to get into and if you do decent on your steps and have good letters, you will get your pick. Neurology isn't super competitive either, 98% of US grads get in and the field is about 40% IMG. It is getting more competitive as the procedures get cooler though. 🙂
I went to SMU and got my 1st choice for neuro. Know other SMU grads trying for psych that have gotten lots of interviews but their match isn't until March.

 

[penguins]

I have to add something else. When you are out interviewing... these attendings have no idea which school is which. A few have heard of St. George's but for the most part, the caribbean is the caribbean and good or bad... that is how you are seen. I interviewed at a place that had 2 ROSS grads in their residency and the fellow applicant (ROSS grad) that was with me on interview day got ask all kinds of questions about ROSS and the PD said he had never heard of it... he had 2 of their grads!
Sometimes for conversational purposes they ask where it is... the were impressed that I was able to go to such a ritzy place for med school - most had vacationed there at some point. The school name didn't mean anything though.
One place I interviewed at... the residents found out where I was from and recognized that an anesthesia residents had gone there as well. They said he was a really sharp guy and my fate was sealed... they made immediate judgements of me based on just this one guy. The either have no clue or you are judged on those that might have come before you.

 

[klptvf]

Thanks a lot penguins for the info...sorry, I have a dumb Q- where/what school is smu?
I only have a 3.0 but still have to take all the pre. reqs and mcat, and would consider a caribe. sch. but i hear so many mixed msgs about it that i am nervous. then i see two saba grads at washu psychiatry residency. so then i think, well obviously they ended up with great residencies....

-what do you think about the actual training/eduction/cirriculum of foreign schools? Is it easier? if it is not easier, then i dont see why so many have this opposition to foreign physicians/grads, because this would mean they indeed have adequate training as us grads....

I have to add something else. When you are out interviewing... these attendings have no idea which school is which. A few have heard of St. George's but for the most part, the caribbean is the caribbean and good or bad... that is how you are seen. I interviewed at a place that had 2 ROSS grads in their residency and the fellow applicant (ROSS grad) that was with me on interview day got ask all kinds of questions about ROSS and the PD said he had never heard of it... he had 2 of their grads!
Sometimes for conversational purposes they ask where it is... the were impressed that I was able to go to such a ritzy place for med school - most had vacationed there at some point. The school name didn't mean anything though.
One place I interviewed at... the residents found out where I was from and recognized that an anesthesia residents had gone there as well. They said he was a really sharp guy and my fate was sealed... they made immediate judgements of me based on just this one guy. The either have no clue or you are judged on those that might have come before you.

 

[McGillGrad]

Thanks a lot penguins for the info...sorry, I have a dumb Q- where/what school is smu?
I only have a 3.0 but still have to take all the pre. reqs and mcat, and would consider a caribe. sch. but i hear so many mixed msgs about it that i am nervous. then i see two saba grads at washu psychiatry residency. so then i think, well obviously they ended up with great residencies....

-what do you think about the actual training/eduction/cirriculum of foreign schools? Is it easier? if it is not easier, then i dont see why so many have this opposition to foreign physicians/grads, because this would mean they indeed have adequate training as us grads....

http://www.stmatthews.edu/ SMU -Cayman Islands

Training is mediocre at best but does the job.

It is harder, not easier because of the extra variabes you have to deal with.

In order to practice in the US you need the USMLE and to successfully compete residency. That goes for everyone from the Caribbean.

American grads do not like FMGs/IMGs because they feel a false sense of superiority due to the selectivity of US/Canadian medical schools.

 

[penguins]

Carib is easier and harder.
It is easier in that you can slack off a lot more than you could in a US school. There is less structure so that makes it harder. In the US, they have great teachers for the most part and are "taught" the USMLE. The challenging part about going to the carib is that is takes a lot more personal dicispline.
All the caribbean schools have drama/rumors, etc. That is just part of the deal. I don't think there is that much difference in many of them. Even the ones that we heard such terrible things about and are supposed to be the worst of the worst... their graduates get residencies.
Don't believe any of the stats the schools give you. Half of my class never made it past the USMLE step 1. It is the same for the other schools as well. It is just like political pollling - you can get statistics to say whatever you want. Just pick the school that seems like it fits with you life the most. Different islands have different "personalities" and aside from SGU which is definitely the best, it does't really matter after that.

Try you best to get into the US. I don't think that DO school is neccessarily a better option than the carib. Some of the DO schools are well established and awesome while others are sub-par and their graduates have the same problems we from the carin do. We had several transfers from DO schools in our clinical years. We also had several transfers from US schools because they had failed a class or 2 at a US school and their advisors sent them down there. One guy failed our curriculum as well and will never finish. The difference is that our school gives him chance after chance and lets him keep paying whereas the US school just kicked him out.

The caribbean is definitely a serious option. It is hard to be out of the country, it is more expensive, not everyone will make it through the system, there are some really wierd people that end up down there because the screening process is so different, you have to be serious about med school because there are so many distractions and less structure than in the US.

I was really embarassed to tell some people where I was going and where I went to med school. Most people don't care. Friends and family rarely know the difference - they thing it is cool. Older physicians don't like it but most younger ones just tell you about how one of their friends went to the carib for med school and is now at .......
The stigma is there but it isn't as bad as I feared.

Oh, SMU is St. Matthew's University and it is on Grand Cayman. Grand Cayman is very expensive and luxerious, belonged to Britian so that is the influence, very very beautiful. Hey, our research is done with Harvard's international group. Does that really mean much? No, but it shows that we (carib schools) aren't as much of a red-headed step child as we used to be.

 

[penguins]

American grads do not like FMGs/IMGs because they feel a false sense of superiority due to the selectivity of US/Canadian medical schools.

That is definitely true for some people, especially those that go to top tier schools. But those people also look down at state school folks and DO students.
The stereotype is there but once you prove yourself, it becomes less of an issue. You just have to prove yourself, whereas the US grad doesn't have to.

 

[klptvf]

Carib is easier and harder.

Don't believe any of the stats the schools give you. Half of my class never made it past the USMLE step 1. It is the same for the other schools as well. It is just like political pollling - you can get statistics to say whatever you want. Just pick the school that seems like it fits with you life the most. Different islands have different "personalities" and aside from SGU which is definitely the best, it does't really matter after that.

Thanks for the replies.

SGU - is best carib school? Is that st. George?
What do yuo think of SABA? I guess it is highly recommended to visit these schools first ?
My next question: in regards to the stats....do you think iti s safe to believe the match lists? For carib schools? and us schools?

What about stats for admissions for us schools? Do those tend to be accurate? If a school lists certain GPA MCAT stats for incoming admissions, can i safely believe those?

Sometimes, it feels as though we can jsut never get it right...go to a us allo school and others will frown because it is not the best allo school, go to a do school and it is not an allo school, go to a foreign school and it is not a us school, become a psychiatrist and it is not real medicine, go into PC and it is not really specialized medicine, or just the fact that you went into medicine means you are greedy, mean and money hungry. This usually comes from people who don't know all about it. but the list goes on and on...i dont care what other people say, as long as i do what i want, and it doesnt matter how i get there, but gosh it can sure get annoying, hearing all that? huh?

Thanks

 

[penguins]

There will always be someone who thinks they are better no matter what. Medicine is a very "click-ish" proffession.

What I meant about the stats....
All caribbean schools will twist their USMLE pass rate stats. It isn't a straight up 83% of all who started here took the USMLE on their first time and passed after their first 2 years.
It may really be that 83% of those that finished the first 2 years eventually passed USMLE step 1.
I am just suggesting not to make a decision based on stuff like that. Most of these schools are the same so go to the one that is best in terms of island life, money, the California issue, etc. For example, people from Florida like to come to SMU because it is an hour flight into Miami, or they might go to Ross because you can do some course work in Florida.

SGU is the best in the carib because it has been around the longest with the best reputation. If attendings have heard of a carib school it is probably that one. Hey, a big part of that might have been because President Ragan had to evacuate the Americans that were down there way back when... but the point is that it has the most name recognition.

I have heard lots of stuff about SABA but it is all rumors and 2nd hand information. It is the same stuff I hear about all the med schools. We had some transfers from there but we had transfers from every single school except SGU so that doesn't mean anything.
Biggest piece of advice if you decide to go to the carib. Don't transfer schools!!! I think that is the stupidest thing ever. Programs reviewing your application will see that and hopping around carib med schools does NOT look good, responsible, etc. It makes it look like you have some problems and usually that was the case. So just do your research before hand and stick with your choice.

One thing that is good about SMU (I admit my bias here) is that because of the location it draws some teachers that would not otherwise come. For example, our pharmacology course was taught by the proffs from Rush in Chicago. Why? Because they were paid to come down to one of the greatest resort island getaways ever. The went diving on the weekends. So all 5 of them took turns coming down. We also had visiting proffs from Texas Tech and U of Florida and other places. Most of these guys came down once per semester so it was a regular thing. Granted they are not full time but it was some of the best teaching I have ever had.
However, just like the other carib schools a couple of the proffs are only down there because they like to get drunk and be a beach bum. That is their 1st job and teaching is the 2nd. They are in the minority but it does happen.

 

[penguins]

My next question: in regards to the stats....do you think iti s safe to believe the match lists? For carib schools? and us schools?

I think you can definitely believe the match list from US schools. I have seen some of them and it would be really stupid for them to make those up.
The problem with the carib match list is that usually they are not specific from year to year. SMU's, for example, is just a list of all their graduates. I believe it because from year to year there are additions made and since I know the people that matched, I can confirm that it is all true.
Also, there is less...shall we say "school spirit" as a carib graduate and believe it or not, some people never even tell the school they matched. I have a couple of friends that didn't even bother.

All of my classmates who have tried to get residencies got them. One applied for surgery and ended up scrambling for FP. He didn't have a great application so it wasn't really a surprise at all. I mean, you can't apply to Derm when you failed step 1 the first few times... even as a US grad.