Caribbeans being an option now?

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123MeowMD

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Hi there!
I am a bit confused about my options now. I am currently working on a thesis masters (Biology with Neuro&Behav concentration), I have been published two times so far with more to come and have great LORs. I also have all the other good stuff like volunteering (medical and non medical) shadowing, sports, clubs, leadership, awards, TA, etc...However, my undergraduate gpa is not good and I have taken the MCAT 3 times, twice as an undergrad and once now. 18,22,20... my last MCAT went down which I have been told is the kiss of death for my chances in the US. I truly have no idea what happened, but that is not what I would like to address here at this time.

UNDERGRADUATE
BCPM=3.02
AO=3.49
Overall=3.13

GRADUATE
GPA=4.00

Would I be better off just applying to the top 4 Caribbean schools? Would I even have a chance at those schools? I know many of you will bash me for this, but I don't want to retake the MCAT and would like to go ahead and start medical school. If I don't get into the Caribbean ones, then of course I will have to reevaluate things and take it again, but I don't want to think about that until I figure this out first.

Would my masters degree really make a difference and show them that I have improved and become a better student with the capability to combat complex topics?
I saw the thread about Caribbean chances, but with my MCAT score dropping, could I still get into SGU or Ross without having to do their prep program? Do they weed applicants out based only on MCAT or do they look at the whole picture from the start? I know there are some threads that address some of these questions, but I saw them to be extremely outdated, so I am hoping for updated info.

Thank you so much for reading all this. This was my first time posting and I hope I did it correctly. 😀
 
I'm a third year student at SGU so my information is not outdated but I can't speak to your chances at the other schools. With SGU's current admissions policies I think you would have a hard time getting accepted period with MCAT scores so low. If you do, it will almost certainly be into Foundations or AEP. Your masters, ECs, LoRs, shadowing, etc all amounts to very little when it comes to your application, unfortunately. You need to have these things, but they're not going to make or break your application. It all basically comes down to your GPA and your MCAT. You've got the GPA, so you just need to fix your MCAT.

You need to retake the MCAT. You need to know going into this program that you can assimilate large amounts of data, interpret vague questions, and perform on time-sensitive standardized tests. Because here's the thing: the tests only get harder, and roughly 85% of your residency placement is based on your performance on standardized tests. You do not want to accrue hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt only to find out that you have trouble with standardized tests. If you don't perform on the Step exams, you don't get a residency. If you don't get a residency, you will never make enough money to pay off your student loans. You are potentially dooming yourself to a lifetime of financial hardship because you don't want to sit a 6 hour exam. Does that sound reasonable to you?

Seriously. Take a few weeks to study and take some practice exams until you're scoring at least a 24-26. If you've taken the exam 3 times, you're already dangerously close to the edge. You're staring at 7-12 years of commitment to become a physician. Two months of intense study shouldn't be a deterrent.
 
And try to figure out where you're going wrong on the MCAT. Which sections were your weakest? What methods did you use to prepare for the test? Once you've figured it out, then work on fixing the problem.
 
Also if you're really hell-bent on not re-taking the MCAT for the fourth time, you should consider podiatry or PA. Your MCAT scores are competitive for a doctorate in podiatry medicine program (dpm). Also the GRE is a lot easier than the MCAT if you're considering a physician assistant program.
 
123MeowMD said:
and I have taken the MCAT 3 times, twice as an undergrad and once now. 18,22,20... my last MCAT went down which I have been told is the kiss of death for my chances in the US. I truly have no idea what happened, but that is not what I would like to address here at this time.

UNDERGRADUATE
BCPM=3.02
AO=3.49
Overall=3.13

GRADUATE
GPA=4.00
Click to expand...

No its not the kiss of death. There have been are many cases of people taking it 4+ times and getting into a US medical school. You have to fix your test taking problems first and foremost, or you won't be able to take on the boards in medical school.


SkipJunior said:
Also if you're really hell-bent on not re-taking the MCAT for the fourth time, you should consider podiatry or PA. Your MCAT scores are competitive for a doctorate in podiatry medicine program (dpm). Also the GRE is a lot easier than the MCAT if you're considering a physician assistant program.
Click to expand...

He should be okay for podiatry school. However, he is not competitive enough for PA school, because their GPA averages are 3.5
 
Your grad school GPA might net you some interviews at DO schools. Your MCAT is definitely super low, but its not so low that you shouldn't even apply. What kind of graduate studies did you do?
 
ChrisGriffen said:
Your grad school GPA might net you some interviews at DO schools. Your MCAT is definitely super low, but its not so low that you shouldn't even apply. What kind of graduate studies did you do?
Click to expand...

which DO schools do you recommend?
 
Unfortunately there are no "easy" schools to get into. If i were in you shoes I would apply to as many as possible. It sucks to apply, and its super expensive, but it is absolutely worth a shot. All you need is an interview, then all bets are off. You have the GPA and the ECs.

PM me. I had a kind of sort of similar application a few years back.
 
ChrisGriffen said:
Unfortunately there are no "easy" schools to get into. If i were in you shoes I would apply to as many as possible. It sucks to apply, and its super expensive, but it is absolutely worth a shot. All you need is an interview, then all bets are off. You have the GPA and the ECs.

PM me. I had a kind of sort of similar application a few years back.
Click to expand...

You really think he can get interviews at DO schools with MCAT scores of 18,22,20? I don't think you should give false hope to the OP. I highly doubt he can get into any DO school with his extremely poor MCAT scores and low undergrad GPA. The only DO school that might possibly accept him is Liberty and even that's extremely unlikely.
 
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I am currently a DO student, and some of my classmates have MCATs in that range. With a 4.0 graduate GPA, some schools will look past a ****ty MCAT
 
ChrisGriffen said:
I am currently a DO student, and some of my classmates have MCATs in that range. With a 4.0 graduate GPA, some schools will look past a ****ty MCAT
Click to expand...

which school is that? If you don't give a list of schools that accept MCATs in that range, then your suggestion of applying DO is not productive. I can give you a long list of DO schools who will reject someone with those stats.
 
@SkipJunior @ChrisGriffen OP chances of getting into DO is probably <10% if I were to quantify it... But it's worth applying to schools like WCUCOM, VCOM, LMU, LUCOM, KYCOM, WVSOM and PCOM-GA... These schools do not seem to be 'mcat obsessed' like AZCOM, TouroCA, TouroNY, CCOM, NOVA etc...
 
SkipJunior said:
which school is that? If you don't give a list of schools that accept MCATs in that range, then your suggestion of applying DO is not productive. I can give you a long list of DO schools who will reject someone with those stats.
Click to expand...


Aren't you a pre-med? I am telling you that I KNOW people get in with low MCATs.
No i will not list schools for you , and no I will not post what school I go to.
 
ChrisGriffen said:
Aren't you a pre-med? I am telling you that I KNOW people get in with low MCATs.
No i will not list schools for you , and no I will not post what school I go to.
Click to expand...

Whether I'm a pre-med or not is not relevant to this discussion. Again you "knowing" people who get in with low MCATs is not useful to the OP unless he/she knows which schools he/she can apply to maximize chances of admission.

OP, I think your chances of admission to most if not all DO schools are very low. The admissions standards of most DO schools are quite a bit higher now then they were 10-20 years ago. The only exception I can think of is Liberty-COM. You may want to contact Liberty and discuss your app, see if you stand a good chance. I wish you the best.
 
SkipJunior said:
Whether I'm a pre-med or not is not relevant to this discussion. Again you "knowing" people who get in with low MCATs is not useful to the OP unless he/she knows which schools he/she can apply to maximize chances of admission.

OP, I think your chances of admission to most if not all DO schools are very low. The admissions standards of most DO schools are quite a bit higher now then they were 10-20 years ago. The only exception I can think of is Liberty-COM. You may want to contact Liberty and discuss your app, see if you stand a good chance. I wish you the best.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that 10+ years ago a 20 MCAT would have been fine for DO, but these days if you don't have 25+ with an 3.4+ GPA, your chances are not very good... The average rejected MCAT is 25... The DO that gave me an LOR told me she got in with a 18 and that was in 2001... She is not a URM...
 
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They will take your best MCAT, which is a 22.

The average MCAT at WVSOM is a 25. That is listed on their website.

Now you can listen to me, a DO student who knows for a fact that plenty of students with a low MCAT get accepted, or a premed whose only experience on the subject was found in the pre-DO forums.

I have classmates with lower scores than you. You have a 4.0 grad school GPA, and that counts for something. Spend the extra couple hundred bucks and apply to DO schools. Do not settle for the carib based on the nonsense posts of pre-meds.
 
I never suggested the caribbean as an option. I feel the OP should take the MCAT one last time and then apply DO for the 2015-2016 cycle. OP, re-evaluate your study methods and find out why you are scoring so low on the MCAT. Take a lot of practice tests and go over your mistakes. Join a mcat prep course if you think it will help.

If you apply DO with your current MCAT scores, you have a 80% chance of being rejected from every school you apply to and all that application fees you spent will just be money down the drain. Don't take my word for it. Apply DO and then come back and update this thread at the end of the application cycle.
 
SkipJunior said:
I never suggested the caribbean as an option. I feel the OP should take the MCAT one last time and then apply DO for the 2015-2016 cycle. OP, re-evaluate your study methods and find out why you are scoring so low on the MCAT. Take a lot of practice tests and go over your mistakes. Join a mcat prep course if you think it will help.

If you apply DO with your current MCAT scores, you have a 80% chance of being rejected from every school you apply to and all that application fees you spent will just be money down the drain. Don't take my word for it. Apply DO and then come back and update this thread at the end of the application cycle.
Click to expand...

I agree. Dont take his word for it.

Also, this is a great example of how SDN is dangerous. Here we have a pre-med, posting with confidence about something that he has ZERO experience in. Always always always take it into consideration when reading posts on this site. There are plenty of people who will give advice when they are in no position to speak on the subject.
 
ChrisGriffen said:
I agree. Dont take his word for it.

Also, this is a great example of how SDN is dangerous. Here we have a pre-med, posting with confidence about something that he has ZERO experience in. Always always always take it into consideration when reading posts on this site. There are plenty of people who will give advice when they are in no position to speak on the subject.
Click to expand...

How do you know I have zero experience in this issue? You don't even know me. I know several people who have gone through the DO cycle to completion and I know their stats, interview details etc. I know the average MCAT scores of matriculants in most DO schools for recent years. For example, did you know that AZCOM, a DO school, is not interviewing anyone with a MCAT score below 29 at this time in the cycle? Anyway, I don't need to explain anything to a immature medical student who thinks he's all that because he in medical school.

OP, if you're still not sure, contact @Goro , a senior SDN member and DO school admission committee member. Goro reviews applications for DO schools.
 
SkipJunior said:
How do you know I have zero experience in this issue?.
Click to expand...


....because you are doing what all uninformed applicants do: You are harping on one number and ignoring the big picture. Its the same reason that students with 38s get rejected. Its just one number

OP has a 4.0 graduate GPA
OP has TWO publications with more on the way
OP has a masters degree
OP has clinical hours
OP has ECs


These are reasons that an admissions committee might look past a 22 MCAT and offer an interview. If OP has any interview skills, that makes an acceptance.

I know plenty of students who were accepted with lower scores that that. They are my classmates.
 
ChrisGriffen said:
....because you are doing what all uninformed applicants do: You are harping on one number and ignoring the big picture. Its the same reason that students with 38s get rejected. Its just one number

OP has a 4.0 graduate GPA
OP has TWO publications with more on the way
OP has a masters degree
OP has clinical hours
OP has ECs


These are reasons that an admissions committee might look past a 22 MCAT and offer an interview. If OP has any interview skills, that makes an acceptance.

I know plenty of students who were accepted with lower scores that that. They are my classmates.
Click to expand...

You conveniently forget to mention that the OP has low undergraduate cumulative (3.13) and science GPA (3.02) in addition to very low MCAT scores. Furthermore, having clinical hours and ECs is a requirement for medical school admission, it's not anything special. @BestDoctorEver , who is a medical student , agrees with me. In fact, he feels that OP has a less than 10% chance of DO admission.

Keep in mind, that admission standards at DO schools go up every year. 10-20 years ago, the OP would have had a decent chance of a DO acceptance if he applied to enough schools. That's not true today.
 
Considering the grammar in the title, OP doesn't stand much of a chance to be honest.
 
So again, a pre-med and US MD student opinion based on what they have heard

vs

a current DO student based on the current population of my class.

I really don't understand how this is even a conversation?

I am not talking about 10-20 years ago... I am talking about today. Right now. At my current school. This very moment. My real classmates. These are not people I heard of. These are not people I looked up on SDN. These are current, real life classmates. Probably 20% of my class had an MCAT below 26. My school is also regarded as one of the best, if not the best, DO school in the country. There are many many ways to overcome a low MCAT. Being published is one. Being published twice is another. Having a masters is another. Having a 4.0 gpa is another......

I am done here. OP you really need to ignore these people. You have a shot and thats the truth.
 
Here's one, Jonny. It's gospel at my school now, alas.

jonnythan said:
I'd like to see some data correlating that kind of MCAT with step 1 scores.
Click to expand...

OP, I'd get that test-taking deficit fixed before trying medical school. Your best chances at DO schools will be, as mentioned above, with the newest programs. Contact some Admissions deans to see if you're competitive.
 
Goro said:
Here's one, Jonny. It's gospel at my school now, alas.



OP, I'd get that test-taking deficit fixed before trying medical school. Your best chances at DO schools will be, as mentioned above, with the newest programs. Contact some Admissions deans to see if you're competitive.
Click to expand...

I don't follow. One what? What is gospel at your school?
 
ChrisGriffen said:
So again, a pre-med and US MD student opinion based on what they have heard

vs

a current DO student based on the current population of my class.

I really don't understand how this is even a conversation?

I am not talking about 10-20 years ago... I am talking about today. Right now. At my current school. This very moment. My real classmates. These are not people I heard of. These are not people I looked up on SDN. These are current, real life classmates. Probably 20% of my class had an MCAT below 26. My school is also regarded as one of the best, if not the best, DO school in the country. There are many many ways to overcome a low MCAT. Being published is one. Being published twice is another. Having a masters is another. Having a 4.0 gpa is another......

I am done here. OP you really need to ignore these people. You have a shot and thats the truth.
Click to expand...

Im really curious what your school is. You mentioned wvsom before but that is considered a "low tier" in terms of stats/match list/location. I think that for high tier DO schools, from what I've seen on the interview trail, most non urm's or traditional students without crazy experiences have high stats ( or at least higher than 26).

OP,tbh I don't think a 22 will get you in places unless your urm.. or at least anywhere that's considered "the best DO school in the country"...
For reference, I've had 7 interview invites (my mcat is 26-29)
 
Any more pre-meds want to voice their unsubstantiated opinions?
 
OP's chances are slim-to-none with that 20 MCAT... Chances would have been a little better with his/her 22...
 
ChrisGriffen said:
Any more pre-meds want to voice their unsubstantiated opinions?
Click to expand...

I'm a 14 year old freshman in undergrad (but I'm like, super mature for my age because I skipped some grades, lolz). MCAT: 39, cGPA 4.00, sGPA 4.42. I have 6 Lancet, NEJM publications, I shadow 20 hours a week, and I volunteer 7 days a week at a homeless soup kitchen-clinic for Wounded Warriors. I think I can speak for all of SDN when I say that with anything less than a 35 MCAT, you're wasting your time applying for medical school. And if you're already IN medical school, you should probably drop out and go into podiatry.

Oh man. This kind of makes me want to write a SDN pre-med version of the Navy Seal Copypasta.
 
..............op still has the 22. It didnt go anywhere.


Also, OP has 2 publications, a masters, and a 4.0 graduate GPA.

Here is a *familiar* response given to someone with a 25 and a 3.16 GPA with no masters and no publications.

W19 said:
If you applied to 30 schools, you should be getting in somewhere... Relax!
Click to expand...
 
ChrisGriffen said:
..............op still has the 22. It didnt go anywhere.


Also, OP has 2 publications, a masters, and a 4.0 graduate GPA.

Here is a *familiar* response given to someone with a 25 and a 3.16 GPA with no masters and no publications.
Click to expand...
OP's last MCAT is 20 and most school consider your last score... You can't possibly compare someone who took the MCAT 3 times and got 17, 22, 20 with someone who took once and got 25... OPs master GPA might help, but his last MCAT reduces his chance dramatically (from a 40-50% to less than 10% IMO).
 
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