Carribean Schools

[NRAI2001]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hi

A lot of people I know have told me that it is very difficult to get a surgical residency from a carribean school. Is this true? How do u guys feel about carribean schools?

 

[skypilot]

If you have to go to the Carribean stick with SGU the "Harvard of the Carribean." 😉 Plenty of surgeons come out of there. You'll have two good clinical years in New York City at ACGME hospitals.

Here is the 2003 match list

http://www.sgu.edu/nhome.nsf/webcontent/15EBD7EF222F054E85256D1700751A8F?OpenDocument&top=med

 

[NRAI2001]

Has anyone else heard of anything about St. Georges?

 

[PublicHealth]

Originally posted by NRAI2001
Has anyone else heard of anything about St. Georges?

They keep sending me things in the mail. They report that the average MCAT and GPA are 8VR, 9PS, 9BS, 3.3 avg cum GPA, and 3.2 avg science GPA.

What else would you like to know. I have several booklets of information about SGU School of Medicine.

PH

 

[Iron Horse]

I know little about overseas schools, but for an n=1 story, I know someone who recently graduated Guadalajara and is now in a cat surg program at Syracuse. Do these schools release match lists? That would help you. Conversely, if you have a specific program in mind, see if they have any FMGs training there or have had any in the recent past.

 

[viraj2]

Check out the following link for SGU's latest matchlist:

http://www.sgu.edu/nhome.nsf/webcontent/15EBD7EF222F054E85256D1700751A8F?OpenDocument&top=med

 

[DRANTWAN]

U HAVE TO BE PRETTY RICH TO GO TO SGU. MY FRIEND IS GOING THERE...THEY DONT GIVE OUT LOANS OR SCHOLARSHIPS AT ALL...AND IT IS IN A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY

 

[Rdhdstpkd]

Originally posted by DRANTWAN
U HAVE TO BE PRETTY RICH TO GO TO SGU. MY FRIEND IS GOING THERE...THEY DONT GIVE OUT LOANS OR SCHOLARSHIPS AT ALL...AND IT IS IN A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY

Just not true. The loan situation is about the same as it is in the US. Up until a few years ago Grenada, Canada, the UK, and Austrailia were the only countries approved by the US for student loan funding for international medical schools (I know the list recently expanded but I do not know the other countries that are now included). I also understand that many of the students there have partial funding through scholarships.

 

[Amit1]

I would try to go DO before caribbean MD. If you think you cannot make DO then go to caribbean MD.

There is a stigma against caribbean MD's. Here is just a taste of what I have heard real MD's say aboutl the caribbean schools:
"diploma mills"
"caribbean MD = Idiot"
"phoney MD schools"
"buy-your-MD schools"

You would like to avoid this stigma if at all possible. So only use caribbean MD as a last resort.

 

[skypilot]

Although no one can deny that there is some stigma. SGU has made a pretty good name for itself and is not really in the same class as other Carribean schools. It has a 25 year track record. It is approved by the U.S. government for student loans, the first two years of the program are in Grenada and the second two are in New York City at ACGME approved hospitals. There is a professor at Yale and residents at Hopkins who went to SGU.

Look at the match list again before you dismiss it. There is a Neurosurgeon, an Opthalmologist , 7 Radiologists and plenty of other specialists on the list.

 

[DRANTWAN]

IF YOU ARE A DISADVANTAGED STUDENT THERE IS NO WAY YOU COULD AFFORD A SCHOOL LIKE SGU. THE PRICE IS SO HIGH AND THERE IS LITTLE FINANCIAL AID AVAILABLE.

 

[skypilot]

It is considered shouting to use ALL CAPS 😉

 

[awdc]

From what I understand, general surgery isn't very competitive these days. Another reputable Carribean school is Ross University. It is less expensive than St. George's and all your clinicals are also done in the U.S., mostly around New York. Ross also has Stafford loans available. IMHO, if I had to go to a Carribean school, I would only consider those two.

Here are links to Ross U.'s match lists:

2003 match list

2002, 2001, 2000 match lists

 

[Azn Slacker]

Unless you want UCSF plastics or something like that, I think the Caribbean schools are fine.

 

[skypilot]

In my opinion Ross is ok but SGU is the top school and if you are going to go Carribean you might as well go to the one with the best reputation, the best rotations, and the best match list. The only downside to SGU is the high cost but they do have U.S. government student loans.

 

[gimmedog]

I've worked with SGU grads and they were happy with their decision, but acknowledged they had to really work hard to distinguish themselves to come back to the states. They have 400 people enter per year, so there is a lot of competition fron SGU grads for the residencies in the US that are more FMG friendly.

 

[link26]

i have 2 words for SGU: Holy ****

it costs $150,000 to go there. and that's assuming you live in a cardboard box. Add an extra $35000 if you want housing and food.

$200,000 to go to an offshore school! jesus.

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by link26
i have 2 words for SGU: Holy ****

it costs $150,000 to go there. and that's assuming you live in a cardboard box.

Well I have heard that at least they have put some of that tuition money into their facilities and faculty. They are very well equipped and the faculty is well qualified without any government subsidies. So you won't be on your own down there in Grenada for two years. You will be completely in debt when you graduate though! Plus it is hard to bring your spouse to a third world country with no jobs. These are factors to consider when choosing between a medical school in the U.S. (osteopathic) or SGU. If an otherwise qualified student who just missed getting in goes to SGU and studies hard they have nothing to fear.

 

[lisa13579]

My boyfriend graduated from St. Matthew's (used to be in Belize, just moved to Cayman Islands) and DID have a tough time in the match. He ended up "scrambling" into a preliminary surgery spot at a UPenn hospital. I think some of that was luck. It can be done, the road is just much harder. I think prelim spots are much easier to get, but then you have to go thru the whole process again the next year, to find a PGY2 spot, which could be tough. Unless you are lucky enough to stay at the hospital you prelim'ed at. He did do his 3rd and 4th years at hospitals in the US, but I know it's tough for him to feel like his education was 2nd best. He feels behind in residency (started this past June). I have the feeling that his school just wasn't as organized as schools in the US, so he had to figure things out on his own much more.

 

[Chode]

people do not electively choose to go to school in the caribbean.

the arguments therefore are invalid.

this is like offering a patient with osteosarcoma, the option of radical amputation to save their life, or that they can die of their disease with their limb.

people going to foreign schools are doing so because they can't get into a US school.

option A : become a scam chiropractor or work at Florsheim shoes
option B: become a foreign medical grad and work as a physician, after jumping through a few hoops and knowing that certain residencies are off limits.

lets compare Chiropractor or shoe salesman vs. physician working in primary care.

HMMMMM. tough choice


......and you never have to walk into a patients room, and have them ask " What's a DO"?... "please send the doctor in"

or " Will you be an MD after you finish your residency"

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by Chode
people do not electively choose to go to school in the caribbean.

people going to foreign schools are doing so because they can't get into a US school.

......and you never have to walk into a patients room, and have them ask " What's a DO"?... "please send the doctor in " or " Will you be an MD after you finish your residency"

Osteopathic schools are US medical schools. So some people are making a choice to go to the Caribbean. And I think it would be very rare for a patient to question the doctors credentials and if they did it would be pretty easy to answer that I have a DO because I have additional training in osteopathic manipulation.

Also people try to lump all the schools in the Caribbean together but just compare match lists, clinical rotations, and facilities and you will see that graduating from SGU is a little different than graduating from the other schools. You will not have a hard time landing a decent residency.

 

[Chode]

sorry but the published match lists don't support that statement.

once again, published data is completely ignored.

"additional training in manipulative medicine"

yeah, most patients think this when they see a DO on your badge

"wow, that doctor has additional training in manipulative medicine"

....or do they say. What the heck is this, I came to this hospital to see a doctor, and in walks this chiropractor DO"

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by Chode
sorry but the published match lists don't support that statement.

I've looked at the lists and I think they do but of course you're entitled to your opinion. As far as the DO crack probably the most successful doctor in my hometown (of 100,000 people) is a DO. I don't think anyone questions his credentials. I don't think they even really understand the difference they just know he is a great doctor and has a great reputation.

 

[awdc]

Originally posted by Chode


......and you never have to walk into a patients room, and have them ask " What's a DO"?... "please send the doctor in"

or " Will you be an MD after you finish your residency"

It seems as if this argument is blown out of proportion by many pre-meds. I would simply suggest talking with D.O.'s. about this before letting this fear steer anyone away from a potentially very rewarding path to becoming a physician.

Personally, I would rather say that I'm going to a medical school in the US rather than a med school in the Carribean. If not for bragging rights, then for what appears to be that D.O.'s obtain better residencies. Not to mention the various loans and scholarships equally available to US MDs and DOs but not available to students of SGU and Ross. However, after having been a chiropractor, if things don't ever work out with a D.O. acceptance (I only applied D.O.), I would still be glad to go to a Carribean school. (Various reasons why only decided to apply to D.O., anyone who cares to know can PM me.)

All in all, I think a big part of your education is what you make of it. Thanks for listening. Best wishes to all on their chosen path.

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

Originally posted by awdc
From what I understand, general surgery isn't very competitive these days. Another reputable Carribean school is Ross University. It is less expensive than St. George's and all your clinicals are also done in the U.S., mostly around New York. Ross also has Stafford loans available. IMHO, if I had to go to a Carribean school, I would only consider those two.



Actually, Ross has most of it's clinicals in Miami I believe. I applied to St. George's, Ross and AUC as back-ups in case I did not get accepted in the U.S.
AUC accepted me right away without an interview.

For Ross I decided to fly to Miami to interview. At that interview they had to recent grads sit and talk with us. The were upfront and told us some of the "truths" about the school. We were basically told that you will have to work your butt off and that the school does not do much to help you along the way. Many people fail out. But they also said that just about everyone gets accepted in some manner. The island that the school is on is pretty harsh.

For St. George's, I flew to Grenada to interview. The island is not very pretty, although the school has an extremely nice campus. The students were not the most friendly though. I also got accepted to St. George's, but I knew that there would be no way that I would go outside the U.S. unless I absolutely had to.

For any FMG there will be hurdles that you will have to deal with. Some trivial, and some more substantial. I am not going to compare osteopathic v. foreign M.D., but for me it is definitely a no brainer.

And yes, St. George's is by far above the rest of the caribbean schools.

Gaining a general surgery residency should not be too dificult to do whichever path you choose, but by going foreign you usually are required to go to only certain programs which take FMG's. This means that you will not have as much of a choice about where you will live for residency.

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by SM-UCLA tech

Originally posted by awdc
I am not going to compare osteopathic v. foreign M.D., but for me it is definitely a no brainer.

Patient asks: "Are you a Medical Doctor?"
Doctor answers: "Yes, I went to New York College of Osteopathic Medicine and did my residency at Yale. I am board certified in internal medicine"
Patient asks: "What does DO mean"
Doctor answers: "It means doctor of osteopathic medicine."
Patient: "Oh"

End of conversation