case western or pitt

[ComplexPuzzle]

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i need some help...i never thought that choosing which school to attend would be so stressful...obviously as the subject states i am deciding btwn case and pitt...i actually loved both schools...the curriculum, students and the overall vibe at the schools rocked and i am pretty much even...the only drawbacks i had were in general i liked pitt, the city more then cleveland...however the case electives make its curriculum more appealing then pitt...so even though there are two negatives it really doesnt matter cuz they cancel each other out...the closer i get to may 15th the more nervous and stressed i become...i honestly dont know which school would be better for me...does anyone have each info that i am possibly not aware of that would help me tip the scale...thanks...obviously i am not asking for you to make the decision for me....just help me feel it out a lil better

 

[tBw]

I would go with Pitt myself. I loved the students, faculty and curriculum there as well as preferring the city over Cleveland. However, it depends on what kind of things you like to do, as my (limited) experience of the two cities is that Cleveland has more "nightlife"...but you might not be a "nightlife" kind of person...

 

[KBCoch]

I was in your EXACT situation last week. I wrestled with the Case/Pitt decision for a long time. The two schools were pretty dead even with me for the same reasons that they are dead even with you. I loved the idea of the electives at Case, but I liked the living details and atmosphere of Pitt better. I loved the Shadyside area where a lot of the students live at Pitt. I like the idea of taking the bus to school and around town for FREE. Cleveland's bus system apparently leaves much to be desired. The students at Pitt just blew me away with how happy they were to be at Pitt.

I'm interested in EM, and both schools are pretty good for that. I looked into the rankings for the hospitals in different specialties to see the general reputation of each school in those different specialties. Both have very well ranked hospitals in many different specialties. Pitt's hospitals seemed to be slightly more well-regarded. The gray area with this is that Cleveland Clinic blows all the other hospitals out of the water in most specialties, but Case isn't really affiliated with the clinic. They offer a few third year rotations there that I'm sure are hard to get, but I think that is the end of their actual affiliation with the clinic. If you have an idea about what you are interested in for a specialty, you should probably check into the different hospitals' reputation in those specialties. Pitt's hospital actually made it onto the US News honor roll of hospitals this year.

There are also just a few other details that weighed in Pitt's favor for me. I like the H/P/F grading rather than the P/F. I like the idea of being at a school with a big sports program, and did you see the new athletic facility at Pitt???? Holy smokes! It is right across the street from the med school, and it's unbelievable. The faculty that we met at second look seemed great, and the teaching gets pretty good reviews. You get TEN WEEKS to study for the boards at Pitt, which is nice.

To reconcile the fact that Pitt doesn't offer electives, I remembered that so many students at Pitt told me how receptive faculty are to having you shadow them and showing you the ropes. I'm sure that there are equal opportunities for experience at both schools. It's just that Pitt doesn't provide it in the structure of elective classes. You just have to go out and seize opportunities for yourself, which is ok with me.

For the final twist, however, Case offered me better financial aid. Enough to make me waver a bit... Figures... It just would have been too easy the other way, I guess. So I'm not finally finally decided just for financial reasons, but considering all else, I'm for Pitt.

Hope this helps.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I'm a soon to be 3rd year at Case. We are absoulutely affiliated with the Clinic. We can do all of our rotations at the clinic, and they are not that difficult to get. It's kinda weird that you don't know about all this because Case and the clinic are starting a new med-school together next year. I thought this would have been a big topic at interviews. Also, Pass/Fail is the greatest thing ever in my book. You are free to really go nuts with outside interests like electives or a dual degree. If I had grades, there is no doubt I would feel pressure to get Honors or whatever. At Case, I have gotten involved in so many things I would not have felt comfortable doing if I had grades to worry about. My advice: Your in a win-win situation so try to relax and enjoy it.

 

[KBCoch]

Originally posted by Art Vandelay
We are absoulutely affiliated with the Clinic. We can do all of our rotations at the clinic, and they are not that difficult to get.

Oh, I didn't realize this. I was looking at the course catalog for the clerkships online, and it looked like only a few clerkships were offered at CCF. I think it was Neurology and OB/GYN. And I think those had a pretty limited number of people. So is it really easy to do any clerkship at CCF if you want to?

I have one other question. One of the hospitals for Case is in Detroit. So what do people do when they get a rotation for third year at that hospital?? Commute?

Thanks.

 

[mikecwru]

Originally posted by KBCoch
Oh, I didn't realize this. I was looking at the course catalog for the clerkships online, and it looked like only a few clerkships were offered at CCF. I think it was Neurology and OB/GYN. And I think those had a pretty limited number of people. So is it really easy to do any clerkship at CCF if you want to?

I have one other question. One of the hospitals for Case is in Detroit. So what do people do when they get a rotation for third year at that hospital?? Commute?

Thanks.

When I did third year at CWRU, you could only do OB/GYN at CCF. Then they added neuro, then surgery, and now with the affiliation, you should be able to do all of your core clerkships at CCF. There may be more competition for some CCF clerkships until the novelty dies down. But, you should realize that it would be hard to do get ALL of your clerkships at any of the hospitals. There is a lottery system in place to distribute the clerkship spots.
Besides, I think the county hospital (metro) is the best place to train as a student.

The detroit hospital is Henry Ford. You used to be able to do your entire third year there, but now I think you have to sign up and get clerkships individually. They provide free, albeit crappy, housing, from what I've heard. So you don't commute daily (it's like a 3 hr drive).

The USN&WR ranking is supposed to increase with the affiliation with the CCF. Also, a thing (supposedly) that dropped us from a top 20 school was the selectivity was low because of the push to keep 60% Ohio students due to grant funding. Supposedly the in-state favoritism is going to be abolished increasing the selectivity per each student.

It's a good school although extremely expensive. The electives program is a lot better than profs at other schools "being open" to having students shadow them. I've heard from several friends that Pitt's med ctr is an extremely malignant hospital. If the prices were comparable, I would choose CWRU. But in reality, closeness to family, gut feeling, and cost should be your biggest factors, not nitpicking over stats and curriculums. You'll get the same two initials after your name.

mike

 

[ComplexPuzzle]

two things...i keep seeing in a lot of threads mention of a "malignant hospital" exactly what does this mean...obviously it cant be a good thing...as far as cost goes...it looks like both schools will be relatively equal in dollar tag...number two when i was last in cleveland it didnt look like much of a city...but from what ppl have told me it is a lil more happening (sorry couldnt think of a beter word) then pittsburgh...is this true...plus where can i get some more info on the cleveland clinic

 

[monkeyarms]

Case Western Reserve:
WHUT!!WHUT!!BUK!BUK!BUK!BUK!BOOYAKASAN!!!!

 

[tonem]

I have to defend my soon to be alma mater....

1) Pitt is the antithesis of malignant. Clinical training is excellent and the student body is extremely happy. The only reason I had more than four nights of overnight call all third year was because I asked to do Pediatric Surgery and Trauma. Incessant, malignant pimping by attendings is unheard of. You have at least two afternoons a week off for self-directed learning throughout first and second year. I could go on and on....

2) Albeit it's no San Francisco, if you can't find something to do with all your free time in Pittsburgh there is something wrong with you. If you're bored, you're boring as I like to tell my 5 year old.


3) I don't know what CWRU's electives program is but elective opportunities at Pitt are provided through areas of concentration. If a student so chooses they can pursue additional course work in any of the following: Biomedical Informatics, Disabilities Medicine, Geriatric Medicine, International Health, Medical Humanities, Underserved Populations, or Women's Health throughout the four years

 

[mikecwru]

My friend is a resident at Pitt in EM. He actually did mention that medical students on his rotations did not "work very hard." At CWRU, you take overnight call on the residents schedule... not saying that's a plus. I did a month of q2 call in surgery. So, not malignant in terms of that. He talked about students following like one patient during IM, writing these extremely long notes. By malignant, I ment the atmosphere of the hospital.... I've heard from multiple people that were employed there that everyone was always pissed off, there was a lot of political backstabbing. By "hospital" I mean the UPMC.

I wasn't trying to put you on the defensive about your school. They both sound like they offer similar things. Like I said, the most important reason to choose a school is gut feeling, location, family, money, etc... the stuff that will actually make you happy and support you for 4 years. If the person had a brother in Pitts and a girlfriend, I would absolutely recomment AGAINST going to CWRU regardless of other factors.

Originally posted by tonem
I have to defend my soon to be alma mater....

1) Pitt is the antithesis of malignant. Clinical training is excellent and the student body is extremely happy. The only reason I had more than four nights of overnight call all third year was because I asked to do Pediatric Surgery and Trauma. Incessant, malignant pimping by attendings is unheard of. You have at least two afternoons a week off for self-directed learning throughout first and second year. I could go on and on....

2) Albeit it's no San Francisco, if you can't find something to do with all your free time in Pittsburgh there is something wrong with you. If you're bored, you're boring as I like to tell my 5 year old.


3) I don't know what CWRU's electives program is but elective opportunities at Pitt are provided through areas of concentration. If a student so chooses they can pursue additional course work in any of the following: Biomedical Informatics, Disabilities Medicine, Geriatric Medicine, International Health, Medical Humanities, Underserved Populations, or Women's Health throughout the four years

 

[KBCoch]

I'm interested in hearing the bad points about these two schools. It seems that I always hear the many good points from the students, and my decision is still proving difficult, so how about the drawbacks? Anything you wish was different about your school? Negatives?


Thanks for the input guys.

 

[tonem]

I was just trying to clarify from a first person point of view that many of the negative things you hear about Pitt and Pittsburgh are simply not true.

I do have to admit that UPMC is a "machine" but that rarely affects medical students. That is probably why Pitt is one of the few academic medical centers that is in the black. They are actually building more hospitals and expanding. As an aside, the theme of this year's Scope and Scapel (a musical production that every senior class has put on for the last 50 years) is that UPMC is akin to the mafia.

 

[KBCoch]

Well, after the whole shpiel I gave about Pitt, I've actually decided to go to Case. The financial aid from Case was substantially better than Pitt, which is a big deal. I've also clarified some things that I didn't know or misunderstood about Case. I went to a dinner for Case alumni in the Boston area last night and talked to the doctor who runs the intro to clinical skills course. He was super nice and was able to tell me a lot about the school. He clarified that as of this July, all rotations will be available at CCF except maybe peds. That, of course, is a major plus for Case. The vice dean for education was also there to give a presentation about where Case is heading with their medical school in the next few years. Case has a lot of great things in the works and seems like it may be about to explode into a major major presence on the medical school scene. So it's off to Case I go...

Good luck with your decision, CP

 

[Art Vandelay]

As I said earlier, all rotations including peds are available at the CCF.

 

[ComplexPuzzle]

all you case ppl sold me...CASE IT IS

 

[Behcet]

Go CASE!

 

[KBCoch]

Nice! See everyone in Cleveland. Congrats on making the decision, CP.

 

[Resident Alien]

to the 07-ers. i suspect u may already know this..but i'll let u know anyway....the white coat ceremony for you will be on your 2nd day of orientation and not the 1st.