Catholic residencies and being "out"

[SierraPoppa]

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I have a question for the greater minds here on SDN. I am in my internship right now in a state that does not have sexual orientation protection with regard to job discrimination. My internship is at a religious hospital, and I signed something when I started saying I would "conduct myself both at work and in my personal life according to the core values of the hospital" or something similar to that.

Obviously, under the laws of the state I'm in, the hospital could fire me for being gay if they wanted to. My question is whether or not the match imposes any rules about things like this on residency programs. I am not out to anyone at work, but the coordinator and other office staff are very nosy about my private life (in a friendly, motherly way), and keep trying to set me up on dates with their nieces and such. I've been really evasive with them so far, but it's getting really old and I would much prefer to just tell them (and a few of my co-residents who have become friends).

I was not out in Med School at all. I'm finally ready to be honest with my coworkers, but not if there's any chance of being fired and ruining my match by not finishing an internship (I'm almost positive my advanced program will be cool with it).

Any advice on match rules would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mlw03]

For another 9 months I'd suggest keeping it yourself. In my opinion, just not worth it.

 

[peppy]

I don't think the fact that it's a Catholic hospital matters. There are a lot of hospitals with religious affiliations that don't make a big deal about this stuff.
Really, I think it depends on the attitude of the people in the program. If your PD and the program's staff/faculty are all accepting of gay people, then it shouldn't be an issue. The problem is, how can you really know that everyone is really okay with it? And if you do run into problems because of your sexuality, good luck proving that it was the real reason for those complaints about being "unprofessional" or whatever other pretense they might use.
PERSONALLY, I'd probably just keep a low profile for internship, because if someone did have a problem with it and try to screw up your career as a result, it's really not worth losing everything over someone being vindictive.
I definitely understand why you'd prefer for the nosy office gals to back off (I think it's really inappropriate that they keep prying into your personal life, but I understand how the "mom" types are). The main thing is that you just want to get through this year and move on, not risk that someone might try to cause problems for you. For example, I think this thread about an intern who was fired from his internship in the 51st week and it almost cost him his advanced position is a cautionary tale about how easy it is for programs to screw people's careers up. If someone (anyone, including office staff or nurses) who has a problem with gay people wanted to make complaints about you being "unprofessional", they could really screw things up for you even if you didn't do anything technically wrong. An intern is the low man on the totem pole, and hierarchy is everything in medicine. This means that the intern is pretty much always going to end up looking like they're in the wrong if they clash with anyone else at the hospital.

I do sympathize with you for being in this dilemma though.

 

[QofQuimica]

In a perfect world, we wouldn't even need to be having this conversation. However, I agree with the other posters that this is probably not the best timing for you to be coming out to your coworkers. Just get through the year and draw as little attention to your personal life as possible. As for the office workers, don't let them see you're annoyed, and be very busy for the next nine months. Which as an intern won't exactly be hard for you to do anyway, right?

 

[Janedoedoctor]

I agree with the people above. Coming out now would be a career-ruining mistake.

Just imagine coming out to someone at work, say a motherly secretary or a friendly fellow resident. They probably won't be able or willing to keep it to themselves. And there is only one thing faster than the speed of light: the speed of gossip in a hospital.

Soon, the news of this gay resident wil reach the ears of someone higher up the totem pole who sees his chance to pull a 'holier-than-thou' move. You'll be thrown out with your career in shambles, less than a year from graduation. They won't need to find the proverbial stick to beat you with. There are no anti-discrimination laws to protect you, and on top of that, they even made you sign a statement that allows them to scrutinize your personal life.

Grit your teeth and continue to live the lie for nine more months. After you've started residency in a place with a more enlightened set of ground rules, you can do as you please.

As a general rule, the less you discuss your private life within the walls of the hospital, the happier you'll be. Don't pour your heart out to these people. When they ask about your love life, just say vaguely that you haven't met the right person yet, and that you want to prioritise your career. None of these statements is a lie.
Good luck!

 

[SierraPoppa]

Thank you all very much for your input. Your sentiments basically reflect my thoughts on the matter, which actually surprises me a bit. I'm pretty cynical and paranoid about this kind of stuff, so your comments pretty much validate that. I've been closeted for years, and I'm not one of those people who gets all torn up by that. It won't kill me to keep it to myself for another year.

 

[mlw03]

Thank you all very much for your input. Your sentiments basically reflect my thoughts on the matter, which actually surprises me a bit. I'm pretty cynical and paranoid about this kind of stuff, so your comments pretty much validate that. I've been closeted for years, and I'm not one of those people who gets all torn up by that. It won't kill me to keep it to myself for another year.

It's a shame that the smart thing for your career forces you to hide part of yourself.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Your original question was whether the match protects you in some way. It does not. The match requires that the program offer you a contract, but you still must meet their criteria for employment and they could fire you at any time without any NRMP repercussions. For example, if I match someone and then they fail our manditory drug test, that will nullify their match (they are no longer qualified to be hired). The same could be true with your own situation -- if your program takes this issue seriously, they could absolutely show you the door. You signed the agreement, and (presumably) knew about it before you matched there. Sadly, best to keep it a secret for now and come out when safe.

Coming out should be a happy event. Doing so in your current environment might be very stressful and end badly.

 

[SierraPoppa]

It's a shame that the smart thing for your career forces you to hide part of yourself.

I agree, but life isn't fair. This whole process is a big game, and I intend to play it and win. I kept all of my close school friends in the dark (a couple of pharmacy students and a couple of med students) while I was still in med school and stayed single (was rooming with classmates) because I wanted to match into a competitive specialty and wasn't going to let anything stand in my way.

Like many other people, I've put some of the best years of my life on hold for medicine. I'm not going to throw all that away now, and the above comments reinforced what I was already thinking about this... keep it to myself. Plus now that I matched and moved to a new city I told my friends and have a very fulfilling relationship... with someone who understands that discretion is necessary in the short-term to keep my career safe.

 

[Substance]

I am very happy that you have decided to keep your sexual orientation under wraps. You've worked very hard to achieve what few can, and to lose it all because of barbaric religious intolerance would be a severely insulting failure - a lynching of one's profession rather than their corporeal form. And the worst part, it would seem, is that you would have absolutely no grounds for recourse.

Though I mean no offense to those who read it, I can safely say the nicest people I've ever met were observantly religious. They were also the most dangerous.

 

[splik]

I've been closeted for years, and I'm not one of those people who gets all torn up by that. It won't kill me to keep it to myself for another year.

I am not sure why but I have been a bit shocked by the responses which seem to suggest that there is a genuine threat you could lose your job if you disclose your sexual orientation! I did not realise (perhaps naively) there is no federal law protecting against discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation. I suppose the saddest is thing is that we even need such laws in the first place.

Nevertheless the main thing is you won't feel bad about yourself for keeping it to yourself. You mention being in a relationship - could you not mention this (without going into specifics) to those who keep trying to set you up on dates? Of course depending on how nosey they are that could be more problematic! Don't think of it as annoying, take it as a complement that these motherly types think you are eligible enough for them to want to set you up with their nieces etc.

 

[shopsteward]

OP: it's wrong in principle that, as a law-abiding adult and good citizen, you are not able to be honest about who you are. But the comments in the other replies are accurate: someone who is not heterosexual, able-bodied, white and male is at greater risk of adverse institutional action and of more adverse results from that action than someone who fulfils all those conditions. And in your situation, with no protective federal or state laws and an intrusive contractual provision, you would be on the back foot defending any action taken against you.

Don't think of it as annoying, take it as a complement that these motherly types think you are eligible enough for them to want to set you up with their nieces etc.

The attitude taken by these "well meaning" and "motherly" types is itself a patronising form of discrimination, based on the unthinking assumption that everyone who looks like them is like them. It's a superficial view of the world based on appearances, and their lack of thought on the issue of sexuality probably indicates a whole raft of other uneducated prejudices. Sadly, one person coming out on their own is more likely to be the victim of this sort of culture than to be able to change it.

 

[SierraPoppa]

I am not sure why but I have been a bit shocked by the responses which seem to suggest that there is a genuine threat you could lose your job if you disclose your sexual orientation! I did not realise (perhaps naively) there is no federal law protecting against discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation. I suppose the saddest is thing is that we even need such laws in the first place.

There has been a federal law called ENDA bouncing around for years in congress, but it has never been approved. Even if it ever IS approved, I understand there is a carve-out for religious institutions so it wouldn't matter much anyway. Some states have sexual orientation anti-discrimination employment laws, but something like 30 or 31 do not.

Also, the folks who have commented on this thread have proven that they're not naive... we all know that even if it's illegal to discriminate against someone for being gay it is NOT illegal to not like that person for being gay and finding some other "deficiency" to use against them.

 

[michaelrack]

xxx

 

[michaelrack]

I think the way this thread is going that it should be moved to Topics in Healthcare. I have deleted my comment defending the rights of the Catholic Church, its institutions, and its members because I don't think it served the OP, whose predicament I empathize with.

 

[QofQuimica]

Also, the folks who have commented on this thread have proven that they're not naive... we all know that even if it's illegal to discriminate against someone for being gay it is NOT illegal to not like that person for being gay and finding some other "deficiency" to use against them.

Agree. I'm glad that you're not naive either, and also that your partner is so understanding. to you.

 

[ygree001]

I agree, but life isn't fair. This whole process is a big game, and I intend to play it and win... I wanted to match into a competitive specialty and wasn't going to let anything stand in my way.

Like many other people, I've put some of the best years of my life on hold for medicine. I'm not going to throw all that away now...

👍
Smart. It's not about what should or shouldn't be, it's about what is.

 

[Mattchiavelli]

That's a really awful situation and I sympathize with you.. I'm glad that not everyone is in a situation like this anymore and sorry that you have to go through it now like it was 1950. The worst thing about this is that even heterosexuals that are perceived as being queer can get burned by these kinds of policies.

But like everyone says, they can let you go and if the wrong person finds out it could be the end of your internship. However, I don't think it's quite as grim as everyone says for a couple of reasons- one is that the catholic church has said that it's problem isn't homosexuality but same sex intercourse, and if someone is gay and celibate I know they're allowed to still take communion. Now I think this is bogus, but as long as you don't let anyone know you're sexually active you should be ok, but obviously don't come out or anything.

I would stay as nice as possible with as many people in your department, because if you were let go and you needed your letter and a good word you might get one for good performance and be able to get a spot somewhere else. I think there would be some program directors that would be sympathetic since it really has nothing to do with your professional performance. You can tell the nosey ones that you're just too busy with internship to date anyone and just keep respectfully declining although I guess with the 16 hour rules you can't say you're too busy 😉

 

[dragonfly99]

Doubt that most places would do anything to you...even religious hospitals. But I can understand your not wanting to take that risk. It does suck that someone could, in theory, do bad stuff to you just based on sexual orientation. Unless the people seem malignant, I doubt anyone would do anything to you...not all people who are Catholic/Mormon/insert other conservative religion necessarily want to cram their doctine (or their religion's doctrine) down everyone else's throat.

 

[SierraPoppa]

Doubt that most places would do anything to you...even religious hospitals. But I can understand your not wanting to take that risk. It does suck that someone could, in theory, do bad stuff to you just based on sexual orientation. Unless the people seem malignant, I doubt anyone would do anything to you...not all people who are Catholic/Mormon/insert other conservative religion necessarily want to cram their doctine (or their religion's doctrine) down everyone else's throat.

I'm sure that's entirely true, and I don't perceive that anyone at my program would want to damage my career over it. The rub is that they could if they wanted to, and I try not to ever give anyone that kind of power over me if I can help it.