cGPA, sGPA, and ECs

[avokadoduck]

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Hi,

Just finished my 1st quarter sophomore year and I have a 3.51 cGPA, 3.24 sGPA. I have nothing but B's in the lecture portion of my science classes and math classes, but straight A's in the labs. I have done about 12 hours volunteering in the ER, ~50 hours volunteering for distributing healthy food options to impoverished areas (and received state recognition for my work), and about 16 hours serving community meals. I have 4 hours shadowing an orthopedic surgeon and 6 hours shadowing an internist. I am also not in any clubs currently. I want to start some research soon, but have been unable to because I really needed to focus on studies this last quarter (ochem and bio). In addition, many of the research fields I am interested in require me to finish the biology series that my school offers. Obviously my grades are not stellar, but they aren't too bad right? I am definitely considering applying MD/DO to increase my chances of getting into one. I am also thinking about going the PA route, but I have been advised to stay on this route. Are there anyways I can improve my chances? I have posted earlier threads, but that was before my gpa took a nosedive after finals. I am getting very discouraged too because of my "weak" science gpa. Any input would be great.


Thanks

 

[avokadoduck]

Ooops wrong thread

 

[Dr Ginger]

Hi,

Just finished my 1st quarter sophomore year and I have a 3.51 cGPA, 3.24 sGPA. I have nothing but B's in the lecture portion of my science classes and math classes, but straight A's in the labs. I have done about 12 hours volunteering in the ER, ~50 hours volunteering for distributing healthy food options to impoverished areas (and received state recognition for my work), and about 16 hours serving community meals. I have 4 hours shadowing an orthopedic surgeon and 6 hours shadowing an internist. I am also not in any clubs currently. I want to start some research soon, but have been unable to because I really needed to focus on studies this last quarter (ochem and bio). In addition, many of the research fields I am interested in require me to finish the biology series that my school offers. Obviously my grades are not stellar, but they aren't too bad right? I am definitely considering applying MD/DO to increase my chances of getting into one. I am also thinking about going the PA route, but I have been advised to stay on this route. Are there anyways I can improve my chances? I have posted earlier threads, but that was before my gpa took a nosedive after finals. I am getting very discouraged too because of my "weak" science gpa. Any input would be great.


Thanks

your EC's are good thus far, but obviously they are only part of what makes a strong applicant. keep volunteering.

don't be discouraged about your GPA. you can always bring it up. what prereqs do you have left?

keep in mind: if you are seriously considering the PA thing, a majority of PA schools require a MINIMUM of 200-500 hours of clinical experience. Some require upwards of 2,000 hours.😱 and they are very specific. you need DIRECT PATIENT CONTACT.

either get an EMT or CNA cert and start racking up the hours or focus on school. (i suggest the latter)

 

[avokadoduck]

Thanks! I have 2 quarters O Chem, 3 quarters Bio, 1 quarter of Calc, and my major classes. My major is Anatomy based. Also, thanks for the heads up with the PA hours. I was seriously considering becoming a PA last year, but I have gotten some advice from people to go a different path. I agree with their advice too. In no way am I slamming the PA profession, but I think I want something else. I think some actually require about 1000-2000 patient contact hours. Also, if I was going to go that path I would become an EMT for 2 years or so then apply for schools. I think I will still shadow a PA before I make a final decision too. Any advice grades wise with getting A's in lecture?


Thanks

 

[Global Warming]

Thanks! I have 2 quarters O Chem, 3 quarters Bio, 1 quarter of Calc, and my major classes. My major is Anatomy based. Also, thanks for the heads up with the PA hours. I was seriously considering becoming a PA last year, but I have gotten some advice from people to go a different path. I agree with their advice too. In no way am I slamming the PA profession, but I think I want something else. I think some actually require about 1000-2000 patient contact hours. Also, if I was going to go that path I would become an EMT for 2 years or so then apply for schools. I think I will still shadow a PA before I make a final decision too. Any advice grades wise with getting A's in lecture?


Thanks

You are looking great in terms of ECs, but your GPA/MCAT is the most important thing. I would even suggest spending less time on ECs and devote that time to studying.

 

[deleted357625]

Hi,

Just finished my 1st quarter sophomore year and I have a 3.51 cGPA, 3.24 sGPA. I have nothing but B's in the lecture portion of my science classes and math classes, but straight A's in the labs. I have done about 12 hours volunteering in the ER, ~50 hours volunteering for distributing healthy food options to impoverished areas (and received state recognition for my work), and about 16 hours serving community meals. I have 4 hours shadowing an orthopedic surgeon and 6 hours shadowing an internist. I am also not in any clubs currently. I want to start some research soon, but have been unable to because I really needed to focus on studies this last quarter (ochem and bio). In addition, many of the research fields I am interested in require me to finish the biology series that my school offers. Obviously my grades are not stellar, but they aren't too bad right? I am definitely considering applying MD/DO to increase my chances of getting into one. I am also thinking about going the PA route, but I have been advised to stay on this route. Are there anyways I can improve my chances? I have posted earlier threads, but that was before my gpa took a nosedive after finals. I am getting very discouraged too because of my "weak" science gpa. Any input would be great.


Thanks

Your fine right now.

Everything varies extremely, these are the basics most people have when applying:
-Most important thing when it comes time to applying, APPLY EARLY as possible.
-GPA 3.7+ to stay competitive (obviously applicants can get in with lower)
-Rock the MCAT: 30-34 (35+ for more competitive schools, also varies.)
-Volunteer work 100+ hrs at the least (patient contact in hospital/clinic setting, anything over 100 hours is unnecessary.)
-Shadowing 2-3 docs, roughly 60-80+ hrs (include primary care physician)
-Maybe some undergrad research 1 yr+ (try to get any pubs/posters etc, helps if your applying to more research focused med schools.)
-Get involved non-medicine related such as community service or other volunteer opportunities. (Ex: children advocacy center)
-Great LOR's can submit up to 5 (science faculty/physicians you shadowed)
-Any leadership roles
-Great personal statement (addressing why you want to pursue in medicine etc)
-Other unique EC's that you are involved in (sports, hobbies, etc)

 

[apumic]

Your fine right now.

Everything varies extremely, these are the basics most people have when applying:
-Most important thing when it comes time to applying, APPLY EARLY as possible.
-GPA 3.7+ to stay competitive (obviously applicants can get in with lower)
-Rock the MCAT: 30-34 (35+ for more competitive schools, also varies.)
-Volunteer work 100+ hrs at the least (patient contact in hospital/clinic setting, anything over 100 hours is unnecessary.)
-Shadowing 2-3 docs, roughly 60-80+ hrs (include primary care physician)
-Maybe some undergrad research 1 yr+ (try to get any pubs/posters etc, helps if your applying to more research focused med schools.)
-Get involved non-medicine related such as community service or other volunteer opportunities. (Ex: children advocacy center)
-Great LOR's can submit up to 5 (science faculty/physicians you shadowed)
-Any leadership roles
-Great personal statement (addressing why you want to pursue in medicine etc)
-Other unique EC's that you are involved in (sports, hobbies, etc)

Some thoughts:
-This is what SUCCESSFUL applicants often have. Most applicants fall short of these guidelines (and also do not get accepted anywhere).
-Shadowing 80+ hrs is unnecessary. Generally, 40+ if you haven't worked in a clinical setting. <40 is fine if you've worked in healthcare (per LizzyM).
-Clinical experience should EXCEED 150 hrs; many schools want 200-250 hrs (some schools say min. 500)

 

[gettheleadout]

Some thoughts:
-This is what SUCCESSFUL applicants often have. Most applicants fall short of these guidelines (and also do not get accepted anywhere).
-Shadowing 80+ hrs is unnecessary. Generally, 40+ if you haven't worked in a clinical setting. <40 is fine if you've worked in healthcare (per LizzyM).
-Clinical experience should EXCEED 150 hrs; many schools want 200-250 hrs (some schools say min. 500)

I've never heard this, can you give examples? I just never thought med schools were explicit about wanting to see clinical experience quantitatively.

 

[apumic]

I've never heard this, can you give examples? I just never thought med schools were explicit about wanting to see clinical experience quantitatively.

UC-Denver is an example. The AAMC's Senior Director of Student Affairs & Programs (who also is the primary contact for admissions policies & procedures) is an advocate of what he calls "The Sondheimer Rule" which is essentially just this -- applicants should have at least 500 hrs of clinical experience involving responsibility for and direct engagement in patient care.

 

[gettheleadout]

UC-Denver is an example. The AAMC's Senior Director of Student Affairs & Programs (who also is the primary contact for admissions policies & procedures) is an advocate of what he calls "The Sondheimer Rule" which is essentially just this -- applicants should have at least 500 hrs of clinical experience involving responsibility for and direct engagement in patient care.

Wow, weird. I wasn't doubting you by the way, just intrigued.

 

[apumic]

Wow, weird. I wasn't doubting you by the way, just intrigued.

I think they are definitely outliers; however, I think it serves as a good reminder that schools generally want to see a lot of clinical experience and that both quantity and quality are important. Honestly, anyone who lives up to the Sondheimer Rule has almost certainly fulfilled the clinical experience req't of just about any school in the US.

 

[Dbate]

What counts as clinical experience?

I work in the office of a medical geneticist, but I most just handle the paperwork in the office and call patients to remind them of their appointment, would this count?

Before this I worked for a pediatric endocrinologist, but left because it was too far to walk on a regular basis to reach his office. But there I actually got to take down the patients' blood glucose levels, height, weight, and blood pressure. Would that count as clinical experience?

If so, then I already have about 100 hours of clinical experience and since I intend to keep my job until I graduate, I will have over 500 hours by the time I apply.

 

[biodreamer]

Hi,

Just finished my 1st quarter sophomore year and I have a 3.51 cGPA, 3.24 sGPA. I have nothing but B's in the lecture portion of my science classes and math classes, but straight A's in the labs.


Thanks

You've only finished 1.25 of a year and you want to improve your chances. Your best bet is to hunker down and focus on your GPA. Use the next quarter to only focus on your grades and nothing else. Once you get a 4.0 and a momentum going, add on some more EC's. Other then that, you're still pretty early in, so you have everything up in the air and nothing set in stone. Just figure out how you best learn and guarantee a method for straight A's.

 

[boko]

while we are on the subject of GPAs i know med schools look at both overall gpa and science gpa. so is science gpa the same as BCPM gpa?? and if so i read some where that math classes count for the sgpa is that true?? but then again i heard math classes dont count for the sgpa.

 

[Catalystik]

while we are on the subject of GPAs i know med schools look at both overall gpa and science gpa. so is science gpa the same as BCPM gpa?? and if so i read some where that math classes count for the sgpa is that true?? but then again i heard math classes dont count for the sgpa.

AMCAS (MD) schools generate the BCPM GPA, but for the sake of typing efficiency it is commonly called the sGPA though it also includes math. AACOMAS, the DO med school application service, uses sGPA too, but it does not include math. So it can get confusing if you don't know the context in which the abbreviation is used.

AMCAS BCPM GPA and AACOMAS sGPA includes: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=552026

TMDSAS has a different formula, also called the sGPA. Per http://www.utsystem.edu/tmdsas/frwqAskedQ/03-AppProcessing.html :

Included in the science GPA are prerequisite course work (excluding English) and any of the following courses:
Engineering (all areas: Mechanical, Biomedical, Electrical, Civil, etc.)
Astronomy
Computer Science
Geology
Physical Science
Physical Anthropology
Nutrition
Math Courses
Pharmacy
Respiratory Therapy
Dental Hygiene
Agriculture Science
EMS/EMT
Nursing (depending on course title)
Research seminars in Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Math areas
Anatomy

 

[apumic]

What counts as clinical experience?

See my post on the Sondheimer rule for the stricter end of the spectrum. See LizzyM's post (i.e., "if you can smell the pt") for a less strict definition.

I work in the office of a medical geneticist, but I most just handle the paperwork in the office and call patients to remind them of their appointment, would this count?

No.

Before this I worked for a pediatric endocrinologist, but left because it was too far to walk on a regular basis to reach his office. But there I actually got to take down the patients' blood glucose levels, height, weight, and blood pressure. Would that count as clinical experience?

Yes

If so, then I already have about 100 hours of clinical experience and since I intend to keep my job until I graduate, I will have over 500 hours by the time I apply.

 

[boko]

AMCAS (MD) schools generate the BCPM GPA, but for the sake of typing efficiency it is commonly called the sGPA though it also includes math. AACOMAS, the DO med school application service, uses sGPA too, but it does not include math. So it can get confusing if you don't know the context in which the abbreviation is used.

AMCAS BCPM GPA and AACOMAS sGPA includes: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=552026

TMDSAS has a different formula. Per http://www.utsystem.edu/tmdsas/frwqAskedQ/03-AppProcessing.html :

thanks!

 

[Dbate]

According to the TMDAS sGPA information section:

"The science GPA includes all undergraduate level science course work. Included in the science GPA are prerequisite course work (excluding English) and any of the following courses:

Engineering (all areas: Mechanical, Biomedical, Electrical, Civil, etc.)
Astronomy
Computer Science
Geology
Physical Science
Physical Anthropology
Nutrition
Math Courses
Pharmacy
Respiratory Therapy
Dental Hygiene
Agriculture Science
EMS/EMT
Nursing (depending on course title)
Research seminars in Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Math areas
Anatomy"

Since it only states that the prerequisites plus the above are included, would upper level biology courses or other biology courses that are not within the purvey of the prerequisites not count towards the sGPA?

 

[LizzyM]

Yes, if you can smell patients, it is a clinical experience. If your experience with patients requires you to don gloves, it is "direct engagement". 😉 Just my opinion.