Chance for neurosurg

[bamboo18]

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DOUBLE POST, but I have not received any response, but I am trying to figure out my chance...and avoid overselling myself and no match.

I am US MD third year at lower titer school, top 10 of my class, probably AOA, one ortho project, and one no publish research. As you can tell, I do not have much research and I am trying to find some...no luck so far...Step 1 is 247. Is neurosurg realistic goal? Thanks.

According to NRMP, 28 people did not match, assuming people did not apply with a unrealistic step 1 score and terrible personality, what are some reasons that people do not match into neurosurg?

Thanks lot

 

[ndafife]

The average neurosurgery applicant who matches has 18.3 abstracts, presentations, and publications

AKA you'll probably need to take a research year to be competitive

 

[afib123]

average was a 245 in the charting outcomes, so you have pretty decent chance of matching. Get 1 pub thats pretty much all you need. rest can be case reports.
Now i know that 18.3 number in 2018 outcomes but not a single neurosurgery professor in my entire department that i talked to ever cites that number.
Not sure if people just count every small research thing while listing in eras or if people double count. for example, i have one project which i presented at my school journal club, department grand rounds, resident alumni day, pediatric day, and a conference.1 project counting as 5 things?! I am applying to neurosurgery too and have a 250+ and working on having 1-2 neurosurgery pubs. everyone in my department from residents to attendings said that is more than enough. So thats my take

 

[CherryRedDracul]

average was a 245 in the charting outcomes, so you have pretty decent chance of matching. Get 1 pub thats pretty much all you need. rest can be case reports.
Now i know that 18.3 number in 2018 outcomes but not a single neurosurgery professor in my entire department that i talked to ever cites that number.
Not sure if people just count every small research thing while listing in eras or if people double count. for example, i have one project which i presented at my school journal club, department grand rounds, resident alumni day, pediatric day, and a conference.1 project counting as 5 things?! I am applying to neurosurgery too and have a 250+ and working on having 1-2 neurosurgery pubs. everyone in my department from residents to attendings said that is more than enough. So thats my take

Everyone bloats their numbers to high Hell. Cite a number like 18.3 and I'll tell you that much of it is counted multiple times or straight garbage. Often both.

 

[libertyyne]

You should be talking with your home program. You might benefit from a research year.

 

[bamboo18]

You should be talking with your home program. You might benefit from a research year.

I did. The director said I am competitive. I mentioned I am looking for research, and I have been asking around...but no luck so far. The emphasis seems to be do research but did not say I need 18 researches.

Any reasons why people don't match into neurosurgery assuming not being an dingus? Will I not match just because I only have couple projects? If I have to, I will take a year off, but should I try to match next year at all? And of course preferentially I do not have to take a year off, but if I really have to, I will

 

[libertyyne]

I did. The director said I am competitive. I mentioned I am looking for research, and I have been asking around...but no luck so far. The emphasis seems to be do research but did not say I need 18 researches.

Any reasons why people don't match into neurosurgery assuming not being an dingus? Will I not match just because I only have couple projects? If I have to, I will take a year off, but should I try to match next year at all? And of course preferentially I do not have to take a year off, but if I really have to, I will

Neurosurgery is such a small specialty that honestly the best advice you will get is from your home program. Perhaps some of the people on the NSGY board can help if you havent posted there already. With your numbers the percent of people who did not match were ~15% percent, but who knows what their research productivity was. and if they had any other glaring issues.

If I was in your position i would try to get many case reports out, and maybe a small chart review before you get to apply. Having that in place will help you along. And try to get more face time with your home program directors by going to grand rounds etc. After that aways are important. IMO nothing realistically is excluding you from matching right now you just need to put in the work to show that you are serious about the program considering its a 7 year program.

 

[W19]

You should be talking with your home program. You might benefit from a research year.

I don't think OP needs a research year. As an above poster says, OP might need one pub mixed in with a bunch of garbage case reports

 

[Donald Juan]

I would keep trying to get research, but I wouldn't recommend you plan on taking a whole year for research. Like said above, too, most people who have 18 posters, pubs, abstracts; typically they have 3-4 actual publications that were presented at local and national conferences. I had 3 real publications when I applied to residency which somehow bloated to like 12 listings.

 

[frenchyn]

Total lack of research will probably hurt you. However, if you're a new third year, you have a whole year to try to get something together. Things that are very important to a neurosurgery application include perceived interested in/dedication to the field (evidenced primarily by research and sub-Is), participation in research in the specialty (along with some degree of productivity), and having done Sub-Is in the field with letters from neurosurgeons. Many people decide on neurosurgery late, and if you decide that's what you want to do, you have the time to take the necessary steps to set yourself up for success.

The first thing to do is to make sure you get involved in neurosurgery research somehow. If you have a home department, figure out who has been publishing recently and reach out to them. This is very important, especially because home program support is pretty important when you apply. Second, if you're just starting third year, do well on your rotations, especially surgery (also if you're just starting third year, not sure how you can say you're probably AOA unless AOA doesn't take into account third year grades at your school or you're at a school where you're already done with your clinical year?). Third after third year, set up sub-Is early, starting with a home sub-I.

Bottom line, neurosurgery is a research heavy specialty. Applying into it with no research, let alone neurosurgery research, is not a good idea.

My school has junior (first two years) and senior AOA (including third year), if I understand it correctly, I should be able to get junior AOA.

 

[frenchyn]

I would keep trying to get research, but I wouldn't recommend you plan on taking a whole year for research. Like said above, too, most people who have 18 posters, pubs, abstracts; typically they have 3-4 actual publications that were presented at local and national conferences. I had 3 real publications when I applied to residency which somehow bloated to like 12 listings.

I have a ortho research and a paper I wrote which finished but won’t be publish because the dr I worked with... (neither are neurosurgery)...I have tried to find research...for two months...assuming worst case senario I won’t be able to find research, with those two projects Am I good enough or not? Or should I give up on neurosurgery or take a research year?

I will spend more time with the neurosurg department and plan to do 3-4 subI already.

 

[BiggiePow]

Can you give me insight into chances for a 241 step 1, research year with publications (I expect) and starting third year this summer?

 

[MD-2022]

241 is on the lower side, take a year off and publish amazingly.