Chances and advice?

[bunya]

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I'm probably jumping the gun just a bit here, but I was hoping to get some advice on my application thus far. I'm only part of the way through 3rd year, but I'm realizing I am more and more set on path as I go through rotations. Hoping to do a few electives and was hoping I might get some insight on them. Interests are more on the CP side - Heme/Immuno/Micro

School: Low-mid tier in the south
Step 1: 243
Step 2: Not taken
Grades: Mostly Honors pre-clinical, so far Honors for IM, FM, High Pass for Ob
Rank: Top 10%
Research: A couple of posters, a couple 2nd/3rd author papers, masters degree and thesis
Extras: General extracurricular stuff

Interested in Hopkins, Vanderbilt, MGH, Emory...wondering what my chances would be for those as of now and whether it would be worth trying to do some rotations at any of them? My home institution doesn't have the greatest path department, particularly CP, so I'm not sure who to ask or where to start.

Thanks!

 

[MetroPath]

Good to set your standards high.

I would go and do rotations at programs where you want to go. Help out, be "normal" and dont act annoying.

Often times, it's tough to get noticed as a medical student doing an outside rotation. I would talk to the program director and chair at the program (those who will make decisions when it comes to ranking candidates) where you are genuinely interested in during the rotation and express your interest in their program and pathology in general.

Also, by doing a rotation, you will get a feel for whether a program is right for you. Sometimes you might think a program is great, but when you get there and see it for yourself, things may change.

Good luck.

 

[mlw03]

I'm probably jumping the gun just a bit here, but I was hoping to get some advice on my application thus far. I'm only part of the way through 3rd year, but I'm realizing I am more and more set on path as I go through rotations. Hoping to do a few electives and was hoping I might get some insight on them. Interests are more on the CP side - Heme/Immuno/Micro

School: Low-mid tier in the south
Step 1: 243
Step 2: Not taken
Grades: Mostly Honors pre-clinical, so far Honors for IM, FM, High Pass for Ob
Rank: Top 10%
Research: A couple of posters, a couple 2nd/3rd author papers, masters degree and thesis
Extras: General extracurricular stuff

Interested in Hopkins, Vanderbilt, MGH, Emory...wondering what my chances would be for those as of now and whether it would be worth trying to do some rotations at any of them? My home institution doesn't have the greatest path department, particularly CP, so I'm not sure who to ask or where to start.

Thanks!

I think that if you want to have a shot at some of those big dawgs, you'll need a rotation. You're a fine candidate, but those are the big boys, and they get tons of applicants. I generally agree with MetroPath, and would add that also getting on well with the residents is important. Many programs care what the residents say, and if you're a cool guy for a month, that'll get passed on. If you're a turd, that'll get passed on too. Be the cool guy - find the balance between helpful and showing a desire to learn, without being a pain in the butt. It's a tough balance, I know.

Good luck/bonne chance.

 

[bunya]

Thanks for the replies and advice! I definitely understand the personality aspect and working well together with people. Do you think my lack of research/PhD will hurt my chances when it comes to some of those places? How could I make myself more competitive? Thanks again!

 

[mlw03]

Thanks for the replies and advice! I definitely understand the personality aspect and working well together with people. Do you think my lack of research/PhD will hurt my chances when it comes to some of those places? How could I make myself more competitive? Thanks again!

Yep - those are programs that are academically oriented, and they specifically say they want to produce academicians. Thus they look for evidence of prior academic productivity in applicants. A pretty reasonable approach. You have some academic chops, and at this point the only thing you could potentially do would be to get a first author paper out before applications. Your step 1 score is quite good, but it's not that 260 that's gonna get people's attention.

My question to you (and you'll be asked this if you are interviewed at these spots) is why do you want to go there? What are your long-term career goals? Don't just say what you think they want to hear (at least not here), but what's your true answer?

 

[bunya]

Thanks again for the insight and advice. As of now, my goals are to practice in an academic setting. I desire *some* patient contact, but I would like to focus more on diagnostics and research. I have no desire to spend all (or most) of my time with patients. I am interested in both basic science and translational research, particularly in either ID or heme. I (perhaps naively) feel like my interests and goals fit well with academic CP specializing in medical micro or transfusion med (or a combination?), where I can be involved in a limited clinical capacity working with patients, but spending most of my time in the lab/teaching/research setting.

Would you consider this a realistic route?

 

[mlw03]

Thanks again for the insight and advice. As of now, my goals are to practice in an academic setting. I desire *some* patient contact, but I would like to focus more on diagnostics and research. I have no desire to spend all (or most) of my time with patients. I am interested in both basic science and translational research, particularly in either ID or heme. I (perhaps naively) feel like my interests and goals fit well with academic CP specializing in medical micro or transfusion med (or a combination?), where I can be involved in a limited clinical capacity working with patients, but spending most of my time in the lab/teaching/research setting.

Would you consider this a realistic route?

I'm not really qualified to answer your last question. I'm an AP only guy working for a provincial government in Canada. In theory, sure, what you suggest is plausible, and with that you may have a shot at some of those programs. I've found, both as a chief resident and a faculty adjunct, that the big step is to get through the door. That is, get the interview. Then if you're solid, it'll often come through in the interview. With your background you have a chance at some big dawg interviews, but certainly not a shoe-in either. Give it a go though, low marginal cost to apply so long as you don't go nuts.

 

[BU Pathology]

The American Board of Pathology has created a physician scientist pathway that would match your interests quite nicely.

 

[alpinebrook]

Just my two cents, as someone currently applying...

You don't need to do an away rotation at any of those places to get noticed by them. I'm sure it would be a great experience and could help, but I did not and I still got many invites from top programs (all that you mentioned, except for one). I did a rotation at a community hospital that is affiliated with my school but does not have a residency program, as well as rotations at two other programs that are not top-tier. I think it's more important that you go out and get experience and make something useful of it. You get out what you put into it. I also think you can shine through on your application, and glowing letters of recommendations help (this is what I am figuring has made me successful thus far, at least from the feedback I have received from interviewers). Not being an MD-PhD does not seem to have hurt me either. One top-tier program I interviewed at even told all the applicants during the wrap-up session that they are NOT looking for all cookie-cutter research types, despite their reputation for being a big research institution. Maybe they're lying. Maybe everyone's lying, I don't know. I don't know if people tell you that you're an awesome candidate and that they wouldn't have invited you if they didn't think you were awesome, and then go and not rank you at all. We shall see!!!

Also, even if you don't become primarily a researcher, you'll still have little to no patient contact in pathology, so it's important to understand that. From what I know and have been told, you only get some patient contact in cytology (doing FNAs) and transfusion medicine (you'll round on patients but will not be admitting or discharging them).

 

[LADoc00]

I havent seen any data whatsoever that shows going to program X vs. Y provides any sort of long term career advantage, likely because it doesn't...

I would focus on place you will be happy living and thus be a pleasant co-worker so the real upside in training, your relationships with fellow pathologists, is absolutely maximized to prime future job opportunities.

Dont be the guy or gal who sits at home when the rest of the class is out at happy hour, even if you dont drink.

 

[MetroPath]

I havent seen any data whatsoever that shows going to program X vs. Y provides any sort of long term career advantage, likely because it doesn't...

I would focus on place you will be happy living and thus be a pleasant co-worker so the real upside in training, your relationships with fellow pathologists, is absolutely maximized to prime future job opportunities.

Dont be the guy or gal who sits at home when the rest of the class is out at happy hour, even if you dont drink.

Totally agree with this. Every applicant should make sure you go to a program where you can see yourself and be happy for four years (and possibly longer if you stay to do a fellowship).

I went to a small residency program, where most of the residents got along and got together outside of work, sometimes with attendings. It was a fun time. We had Christmas parties at an attendings house, etc.

I then went on to a fellowship in an academic center where residents hung out in cliques. It just wasnt a very friendly place.