Chances at getting an out of state residency program match. Thoughts?

[Toxoplasmosis]

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[confettiflyer]

My school is new and I'm part of the first graduating class. I know of one other person (friend of mine) that matched to programs in California. I know of plenty more were interviewed or were offered interviews, though I'm not privy to their rank lists (except one...and their rank list was not strictly CA > other states).

The reason CA is competitive is because the competition starts from the very bottom.

CA residents tend to come from CA schools because you have some of the most rigorous pharmacy programs in the state (UCSF, USC, UOP) with difficult admission standards....

...they have difficult admissions standards because they choose from some of the top universities in the country (Berkeley, Stanford, UCLA, USC)...

....and those students at those undergraduate levels represent the top 5% of students in a state that has a population larger than most countries in the world.

Not to mention that a) clinical practice in CA is "different" from other states and because of that b) you want students who "grew up" in that environment, and c) you tend to prefer WHO you know (example: that student rotating at XYZ hospital really had what amounted to a 6 week job interview vs. someone out of state).

You also have a critical mass of students such that a program can pretty much fill its interview calendar with good candidates all within the state. Pharmacy is a small world and incredibly local, local candidates tend to be well networked in that locale. Programs can, but usually won't do this 100%, because being a good program means looking at other candidates just to know what's out there. Given time constraints, it's understandable why a search has to be narrowed.

So, it's multifactorial and partially subjective. Word of warning, this post had a lot of opinion that's open to discussion. Good luck to you.

 

[Toxoplasmosis]

My school is new and I'm part of the first graduating class. I know of one other person (friend of mine) that matched to programs in California. I know of plenty more were interviewed or were offered interviews, though I'm not privy to their rank lists (except one...and their rank list was not strictly CA > other states).

The reason CA is competitive is because the competition starts from the very bottom.

CA residents tend to come from CA schools because you have some of the most rigorous pharmacy programs in the state (UCSF, USC, UOP) with difficult admission standards....

...they have difficult admissions standards because they choose from some of the top universities in the country (Berkeley, Stanford, UCLA, USC)...

....and those students at those undergraduate levels represent the top 5% of students in a state that has a population larger than most countries in the world.

Not to mention that a) clinical practice in CA is "different" from other states and because of that b) you want students who "grew up" in that environment, and c) you tend to prefer WHO you know (example: that student rotating at XYZ hospital really had what amounted to a 6 week job interview vs. someone out of state).

You also have a critical mass of students such that a program can pretty much fill its interview calendar with good candidates all within the state. Pharmacy is a small world and incredibly local, local candidates tend to be well networked in that locale. Programs can, but usually won't do this 100%, because being a good program means looking at other candidates just to know what's out there. Given time constraints, it's understandable why a search has to be narrowed.

So, it's multifactorial and partially subjective. Word of warning, this post had a lot of opinion that's open to discussion. Good luck to you.

So having an undergraduate degree from a good school, is that helpful at all? If someone, say, did their undergrad at Johns Hopkins or and Ivy, would that assist in proving that said person can compete with the CA pharmacy students who did their undergrad at Berkeley, UCLA, USC, etc? Or is undergrad school not even taken into consideration?

I do understand the "who you know" aspect of matching, but it feels like that should account for maybe 25-50% of the selection, not like...90% 🙁. Sucks.

What about other states? Did a lot of your friends end up staying in the same state as your school, or did most of them match to residencies out of state?

Just wondering if states like Illinois, Minnesota, etc. have a similar mindset to CA.

 

[Jackie B]

Looking up the current residents in CA they are pretty much 99% all from USC, UCSD, UCSF, or Loma Linda, barring the UCSF residency who seems to at least recruit some students from other colleges (though they are all ranked in the top 5...)

Amusingly, Stanford residents were all from UCSF. I couldn't see the Kaiser residents.


Thank you!

Is this data available somewhere for general viewing or can you only see it because you applied? As someone who is debating between attending certain schools I'd really like to see these stats

 

[Toxoplasmosis]

Is this data available somewhere for general viewing or can you only see it because you applied? As someone who is debating between attending certain schools I'd really like to see these stats

The 99% number was a hyperbole, but if you go on the pharmacy residency websites they often have a section called "Current residents" where they have short bios including what COP they graduated from.

ASHP has a list of residencies. I just googled them one by one to find their websites.

 

[confettiflyer]

So having an undergraduate degree from a good school, is that helpful at all? If someone, say, did their undergrad at Johns Hopkins or and Ivy, would that assist in proving that said person can compete with the CA pharmacy students who did their undergrad at Berkeley, UCLA, USC, etc? Or is undergrad school not even taken into consideration?

Best guess is a good undergrad gives you a halo effect. Obviously, depth and breadth of your rotations and pharmacy school = more important. I included very few items from undergrad on my CV (just my bench research experience).

I do understand the "who you know" aspect of matching, but it feels like that should account for maybe 25-50% of the selection, not like...90% 🙁. Sucks.

I dunno how you got the idea that "who you know" is 90% of the selection process...not even close. "Who you know" may get your foot in the door, but beyond that, it's mostly your qualifications.

Just because a program "knows you" doesn't mean that's a good thing. A program will know your strengths, but also your weaknesses. It's a double-edged sword.

What about other states? Did a lot of your friends end up staying in the same state as your school, or did most of them match to residencies out of state?

Just wondering if states like Illinois, Minnesota, etc. have a similar mindset to CA.

It was a mix, then again most of our class is from out of state so application patterns varied such that i can't get a good measure of this.

 

[Toxoplasmosis]

Heh sorry I was exaggerating with the 90% thing.

Thanks for the response.