Chances of IM with just OK boards

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hawthorn9797

hawthorn9797

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3rd year here, starting to think about how to tackle ERAS and need some input from those more prepared/well informed than Me (So pretty much everyone M3 and beyond lol)

stats:

Step 1: 223
Comlex 1: 556
School: KCUMB
Average class rank
Good rotation evals/grades so far

I’m planning on gunning pretty hard for step 2 CK, assuming I will get the same percentile or higher (230+), is there a chance of matching well in IM, also how many applications should I submit?
 
Where are you applying, Midwest? If you have no fails and improve on Step 2 CK like you already mentioned you should do fine. Not necessarily Ivy League places, but IM at academic programs familiar with your school should be very doable.
 
hawthorn9797 said:
3rd year here, starting to think about how to tackle ERAS and need some input from those more prepared/well informed than Me (So pretty much everyone M3 and beyond lol)

stats:

Step 1: 223
Comlex 1: 556
School: KCUMB
Average class rank
Good rotation evals/grades so far

I’m planning on gunning pretty hard for step 2 CK, assuming I will get the same percentile or higher (230+), is there a chance of matching well in IM, also how many applications should I submit?
Click to expand...

Low tier academic places in your region are doable.
 
Sardonix said:
Where are you applying, Midwest? If you have no fails and improve on Step 2 CK like you already mentioned you should do fine. Not necessarily Ivy League places, but IM at academic programs familiar with your school should be very doable.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply. Yes I would prefer to stay in the Midwest, Mizzou, UMKC, KU are my top 3 but I didn’t know how much of a stretch these programs would be.
 
hawthorn9797 said:
Thank you for the reply. Yes I would prefer to stay in the Midwest, Mizzou, UMKC, KU are my top 3 but I didn’t know how much of a stretch these programs would be.
Click to expand...

They are all doable. Set up VSAS rotations at all of them. Work your butt off including all weekends, and you will do great.
 
hawthorn9797 said:
Thank you for the reply. Yes I would prefer to stay in the Midwest, Mizzou, UMKC, KU are my top 3 but I didn’t know how much of a stretch these programs would be.
Click to expand...

UMKC isn't a very resident friendly program. A lot of people tend to think it's a FMG work to death program.

I think you have the possibility of matching at a few solid communiversity and or established community programs in cities and probably a few solid university programs in more of the rural areas.

I would say however during your interviewing next year do a few auditions, talk to upper years and see if they have connections, etc. Having someone vouch for you in a program is very big. Also be aware that fit and sense of comfort is important for choosing a program. I'm at a pretty solid community program for IM and I can say that I feel very supported, my coresidents are very easy to work with and I am in an urban area. I would take this over living in a small town with nothing to do besides work all day and read Harrisons.
 
hawthorn9797 said:
3rd year here, starting to think about how to tackle ERAS and need some input from those more prepared/well informed than Me (So pretty much everyone M3 and beyond lol)

stats:

Step 1: 223
Comlex 1: 556
School: KCUMB
Average class rank
Good rotation evals/grades so far

I’m planning on gunning pretty hard for step 2 CK, assuming I will get the same percentile or higher (230+), is there a chance of matching well in IM, also how many applications should I submit?
Click to expand...
I know a DO with similar boards and 3 pre-clinical failures at Georgetown Med/Peds right now. You'll be fine, audition well, network, and apply broadly.
 
Drrrrrr. Celty said:
UMKC isn't a very resident friendly program. A lot of people tend to think it's a FMG work to death program.

I think you have the possibility of matching at a few solid communiversity and or established community programs in cities and probably a few solid university programs in more of the rural areas.

I would say however during your interviewing next year do a few auditions, talk to upper years and see if they have connections, etc. Having someone vouch for you in a program is very big. Also be aware that fit and sense of comfort is important for choosing a program. I'm at a pretty solid community program for IM and I can say that I feel very supported, my coresidents are very easy to work with and I am in an urban area. I would take this over living in a small town with nothing to do besides work all day and read Harrisons.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for the advice! Much appreciated, good luck in residency
 
Dr.Bruh said:
I know a DO with similar boards and 3 pre-clinical failures at Georgetown Med/Peds right now. You'll be fine, audition well, network, and apply broadly.
Click to expand...
Wow good to know, thank you for the reply!
 
Dr.Bruh said:
I know a DO with similar boards and 3 pre-clinical failures at Georgetown Med/Peds right now. You'll be fine, audition well, network, and apply broadly.
Click to expand...

3 failed classes and matching Gtown isn't really a normal experience. Likewise the Gtown IM program is predominately MDs from established programs.
 
Yeah ignore the kid who gives the example of Gtown. But your Step 1 is solid for your desired programs. That’s the most important aspect of this convo.

IM is all about the grinding on auditions. Always volunteer to work weekends and long hours, and show up to work with a smile and maintain a positive attitude. Be that possible resident that everyone wants to work with.
 
Epilepsy365 said:
Yeah ignore the kid who gives the example of Gtown. But your Step 1 is solid for your desired programs. That’s the most important aspect of this convo.

IM is all about the grinding on auditions. Always volunteer to work weekends and long hours, and show up to work with a smile and maintain a positive attitude. Be that possible resident that everyone wants to work with.
Click to expand...
You've just described a sociopath.
 
Giovanotto said:
You've just described a sociopath.
Click to expand...

Where's the lie?

Internal medicine is very ego driven and a lot of personality. There's a lot of stress at every aspect of the journey between the amount of work, the actual interactions with legitimately sick patients, the nearly insurmountable amount of information, and building an application that lets you get into a fellowship that allows you to escape the above.
 
Epilepsy365 said:
Yeah ignore the kid who gives the example of Gtown. But your Step 1 is solid for your desired programs. That’s the most important aspect of this convo.

IM is all about the grinding on auditions. Always volunteer to work weekends and long hours, and show up to work with a smile and maintain a positive attitude. Be that possible resident that everyone wants to work with.
Click to expand...

There's really nothing that beats a student who auditions plays nice and is intelligent and tells you they want to actually go to your program. I can genuinely say that I don't remember 99% of the ppl who interviewed at my program this year. I do remember the people who auditioned and had good personalities though.

That being said, I'm at a tight knit community program. I suspect that at bigger programs with >30 residents it's almost invariably what are your accomplishments and your boards. Which is also important here too. In the end if I don't think you can handle running emergencies or wont pass your ABIM then I won't support you.
 
I want to also make this very clear because again, it's SDN and it's adoeverythingyoucandotomatchintothebesttier.com. But don't undervalue fit, residency culture, or location. Most communiversity programs or community programs with in house fellowships will pretty much offer you a great pathway to make it into a fellowship of your choice. And I would highly recommend paying attention to in house fellowships for sure.
 
Drrrrrr. Celty said:
Where's the lie?

Internal medicine is very ego driven and a lot of personality. There's a lot of stress at every aspect of the journey between the amount of work, the actual interactions with legitimately sick patients, the nearly insurmountable amount of information, and building an application that lets you get into a fellowship that allows you to escape the above.
Click to expand...

Ditto you can’t fake that smile and positive attitude for a month straight in the thick of the grind.

It is never about the level of medical knowledge that will impress people on these auditions.
 
Drrrrrr. Celty said:
I want to also make this very clear because again, it's SDN and it's adoeverythingyoucandotomatchintothebesttier.com. But don't undervalue fit, residency culture, or location. Most communiversity programs or community programs with in house fellowships will pretty much offer you a great pathway to make it into a fellowship of your choice. And I would highly recommend paying attention to in house fellowships for sure.
Click to expand...

Yes. The me of beginning of med school was dead set on matching a name brand program. The me of now has all but stopped caring about that and is now focused on simply finding solid places where I will get good training in a tight knit environment with cool people, in a location that I like, and perhaps with decent history fellowship placement. The programs that are greatly catching my eye these days are almost all community.
 
Drrrrrr. Celty said:
There's really nothing that beats a student who auditions plays nice and is intelligent and tells you they want to actually go to your program. I can genuinely say that I don't remember 99% of the ppl who interviewed at my program this year. I do remember the people who auditioned and had good personalities though.

That being said, I'm at a tight knit community program. I suspect that at bigger programs with >30 residents it's almost invariably what are your accomplishments and your boards. Which is also important here too. In the end if I don't think you can handle running emergencies or wont pass your ABIM then I won't support you.
Click to expand...
No body really suggests auditions in the MD side of the game, in fact they are discouraged, because the applicants are vast and so are the programs, and it would be a nightmare to manage aways if you only matched people that rotated. And you wont necessarily match there. Do well in school, good step, do some research, show some ties if you want to match oos. Atleast what i have heard from IM folks at my school looking at academic centers.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Yes. The me of beginning of med school was dead set on matching a name brand program. The me of now has all but stopped caring about that and is now focused on simply finding solid places where I will get good training in a tight knit environment with cool people, in a location that I like, and perhaps with decent history fellowship placement. The programs that are greatly catching my eye these days are almost all community.
Click to expand...
I wanted to match brand name too, but then i remembered i cant live with a family in a large city where most of the brand names are considering how much you get paid and what the cost of living is. I will be going to some solid training program with lots of volume and good clinical education.
 
Tozanzibarbymotorcar said:
lol a 223 is not a bad score for a DO. I think he/she will do better than just "low tier" programs assuming better scores on level/step 2. Nobody cares for COMLEX. Why is SDN always raining bad news?
Click to expand...
223 is not bad, but it is below average for US MD. The average US MD matches at an average program.
So if you are below average and want to match at an above average place you have to have something they want. Does OP have research? How about AOA or class Rank ? Or all clinical Honors m3? Or an interesting story? Or ties to the location? Or a family member at that institution? or Amazing letters from people that the PDs know?

OP can apply to MGH, but dont be surprised if OP doesnt get a call back.

Got a regional program that is affiliated with school that has reasonable in house fellowships. Or an academic program in a more undesirable locale? Probably more likely to give op a solid chance.
 
Tozanzibarbymotorcar said:
lol a 223 is not a bad score for a DO. I think he/she will do better than just "low tier" programs assuming better scores on level/step 2. Nobody cares for COMLEX. Why is SDN always raining bad news?
Click to expand...

Bruh they’re just being honest and providing factual, realistic advice. Conversely, I could ask why you’re unnecessarily getting OPs hopes up, when he/she should keep their expectations realistic?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
Tozanzibarbymotorcar said:
lol a 223 is not a bad score for a DO. I think he/she will do better than just "low tier" programs assuming better scores on level/step 2. Nobody cares for COMLEX. Why is SDN always raining bad news?
Click to expand...

No it’s not a bad score, but it’s not a score that will get you into mid tier IM as a DO by itself. This isn’t “raining bad news” lmao, this is simply reality. OP should definitely apply to some mid-tier reaches and might snag an interview at a couple of them, but their target programs should be community places with in house fellowships and low tier university programs.
 
libertyyne said:
No body really suggests auditions in the MD side of the game, in fact they are discouraged, because the applicants are vast and so are the programs, and it would be a nightmare to manage aways if you only matched people that rotated. And you wont necessarily match there. Do well in school, good step, do some research, show some ties if you want to match oos. Atleast what i have heard from IM folks at my school looking at academic centers.
Click to expand...
Have met MDs in surgical subspecialties at prestigious programs that were told to do aways, and they did
 
Last edited:
libertyyne said:
We are talking about IM here not surgical sub specialty.
Click to expand...
bolded for emphasis. I'm not here to convince anyone, but it's my opinion that most people that want to reach for academic institutions should do aways. If you want to do community IM/FM, then the standard procedure applies.

edit: I'm going off-topic here
 
libertyyne said:
223 is not bad, but it is below average for US MD. The average US MD matches at an average program.
So if you are below average and want to match at an above average place you have to have something they want. Does OP have research? How about AOA or class Rank ? Or all clinical Honors m3? Or an interesting story? Or ties to the location? Or a family member at that institution? or Amazing letters from people that the PDs know?

OP can apply to MGH, but dont be surprised if OP doesnt get a call back.

Got a regional program that is affiliated with school that has reasonable in house fellowships. Or an academic program in a more undesirable locale? Probably more likely to give op a solid chance.
Click to expand...
Isn’t this the DO forum? I doubt OP will be applying to MGH unless he or she has a lot of money to throw away. OP will be fine.
 
low tier uni IM is definitely doable for OP. According to Frieda Usually low 220s to low 230s step 1 for low tier uni IM and usually 235-245ish Step for mid tier uni IM for a DO all else aside. 250+ diminishing returns for DO in IM because at the places that have avgs in that range they arent even looking at a DO since top tier uni IM has a lot of ego and not DO friendly at all IMO
 
Deecee2DO said:
low tier uni IM is definitely doable for OP. According to Frieda Usually low 220s to low 230s step 1 for low tier uni IM and usually 235-245ish Step for mid tier uni IM for a DO all else aside. 250+ diminishing returns for DO in IM because at the places that have avgs in that range they arent even looking at a DO since top tier uni IM has a lot of ego and not DO friendly at all IMO
Click to expand...
True but a 250 will open some doors at mid upper tier programs like u wash or Cleveland clinic main campus etc
 
FutureDoctor5000 said:
True but a 250 will open some doors at mid upper tier programs like u wash or Cleveland clinic main campus etc
Click to expand...
Cleveland Clinic sure. UW is highly selective with their IM program and their roster reveals no DO's despite interviewing a good handful of them that I know personally with strong step scores. OHSU will be more accepting to DO's.
 
OHSU IM doesn’t take DOs unless you’re from COMP/COMP-NW with 240+ Step 1 in addition to an impressive away rotation there.

Can it be done? Sure but it isn’t likely.

As for UW, lol. Ain’t happening bro... Plenty of 240+ MDs want to go and live in Seattle nowadays. It is believed to be the future San Francisco among the new generation of upcoming docs.

CCF has its own wart, mainly you as a resident being second class citizen to the NPs/PAs there. Cleveland as a town is just depressing. I will never go there for fellowship or residency.
 
Last edited:
AlteredScale said:
Cleveland Clinic sure. UW is highly selective with their IM program and their roster reveals no DO's despite interviewing a good handful of them that I know personally with strong step scores. OHSU will be more accepting to DO's.
Click to expand...
There are actually a couple current DO resident from PNWU, RVU, and Midwestern. For the PNWU guy, I heard through the grapevine that they had steps 260+ and a family member on faculty. The RVU R3 graduated in 2014 and has an interesting history of a year of gen surg residency, then a few years of consulting before going to UW.
 
This thread is so SDN.

“Hey guys I’m a normal mortal applicant who needs to alleviate my anxiety a little by making sure my modest goals are reasonable.”

10 posts later:

“With a 250+..,

...CV full of pubs...

Here’s the pros and cons of these top programs...”

lol

OP you’re fine for low-tier academic or good community programs, especially if open geographically.
 
Ho0v-man said:
This thread is so SDN.

“Hey guys I’m a normal mortal applicant who needs to alleviate my anxiety a little by making sure my modest goals are reasonable.”

10 posts later:

“With a 250+..,

...CV full of pubs...

Here’s the pros and cons of these top programs...”

lol

OP you’re fine for low-tier academic or good community programs, especially if open geographically.
Click to expand...
Hahaha exactly my thoughts. Oh well thanks anyway everybody
 
hawthorn9797 said:
Hahaha exactly my thoughts. Oh well thanks anyway everybody
Click to expand...
I have almost equal general stats as you and applied to IM. Applied to 58, 19 interview invites, attended 13. I was top heavy with my applications and ended up getting rejected to a majority of the mid-tier IM. Ended up with 4 university and 9 community programs.
Edit: Feel free to PM me for more specifics about step 2 and programs.
 
Last edited:
hawthorn9797 said:
3rd year here, starting to think about how to tackle ERAS and need some input from those more prepared/well informed than Me (So pretty much everyone M3 and beyond lol)

stats:

Step 1: 223
Comlex 1: 556
School: KCUMB
Average class rank
Good rotation evals/grades so far

I’m planning on gunning pretty hard for step 2 CK, assuming I will get the same percentile or higher (230+), is there a chance of matching well in IM, also how many applications should I submit?
Click to expand...

My cousin matched to an IM program in the Midwest with similar scores. I think if you apply to the right programs, you have a good shot at it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
bon22 said:
I have almost equal general stats as you and applied to IM. Applied to 58, 19 interview invites, attended 13. I was top heavy with my applications and ended up getting rejected to a majority of the mid-tier IM. Ended up with 4 university and 9 community programs.
Edit: Feel free to PM me for more specifics about step 2 and programs.
Click to expand...
PM’d you!
 
iamdiegocray said:
My cousin matched to an IM program in the Midwest with similar scores. I think if you apply to the right programs, you have a good shot at it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Thank you for the response! Very reassuring
 
Epilepsy365 said:
OHSU IM doesn’t take DOs unless you’re from COMP/COMP-NW with 240+ Step 1 in addition to an impressive away rotation there.

Can it be done? Sure but it isn’t likely.

As for UW, lol. Ain’t happening bro... Plenty of 240+ MDs want to go and live in Seattle nowadays. It is believed to be the future San Francisco among the new generation of upcoming docs.

CCF has its own wart, mainly you as a resident being second class citizen to the NPs/PAs there. Cleveland as a town is just depressing. I will never go there for fellowship or residency.
Click to expand...

I see a few OHSU house staff that got their DO from PCOM, Touro, and Western U Pomona site. Not a lot at all. 1-3 per year.
 
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