Chances of matching for DO with hx of bad USMLE scores

[Serbli]

Hello everybody. I am an IMG and did not do well on steps (205 for Step 1 and "average" 235 for Step 2 CK), also it's already been more than 5 years since my graduation. Being realistic I think that my chances to get a residency spot are very small. So my plan is to go to the osteopathic school, do my best on COMPLEX, recommend myself during rotations etc and improve thereby my chances of getting into a specialty I'm interested in (don't laugh but ideally it’s surgery. Now I’m also thinking about EM). But I don't quite understand what will happen with my USMLE scores and how they affect the match. Will I have a chance to retake Steps during the school? If not, then what could PDs think about the applicant, who took USMLE like 8-9 years ago and got bad scores but just graduated from osteopathic school with good COMPLEX and recommendations? I know that ACGME and AOA merging is coming so there are a lot of uncertainties and it is difficult to do any predictions but I would appreciate your opinions about this topic!

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[Postictal Raiden]

Holy crap. Doing med school once was enough, you want to do it twice!!!

Anyways, best wishes

 

[Serbli]

Holy crap. Doing med school once was enough, you want to do it twice!!!

Anyways, best wishes

Thank you! I want to practice medicine, so I'm ready to spend 4 more years to achieve my final goal.

 

[Soccer171983]

Thank you! I want to practice medicine, so I'm ready to spend 4 more years to achieve my final goal.

wow. thats dedication. can you not just retake some of the steps and increase the scores and reapply???? add in some research/ec etc and go from there? I have not heard of this situation specifically but i have heard of some docs in germany who went to md school and then went to DO school and have md/do because of the qualifications needed to be a physician and practice omm. Have you considered trying in canada/australia?

 

[Serbli]

wow. thats dedication. can you not just retake some of the steps and increase the scores and reapply???? add in some research/ec etc and go from there? I have not heard of this situation specifically but i have heard of some docs in germany who went to md school and then went to DO school and have md/do because of the qualifications needed to be a physician and practice omm. Have you considered trying in canada/australia?

As I know retaking the Steps is possible only in a very few situations, and for now I don't qualify for sure. I considered Australia before doing USMLE, but now the fact is that I already in the US and have no opportunity to move to another country. Research, internship etc is a very common path among IMG to secure a spot in a residency, but usually it takes several years and there is no 100% guarantee. But with US medical education chances to match is closer to 90-100%, so I think it is a more reliable way. The only question is which specialty can I match with my ananmesis vitae. As I understand FM and some IM programs are doable almost for all graduates, but I'm considering more competitive speciality...

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Hello everybody. I am an IMG and did not do well on steps (205 for Step 1 and "average" 235 for Step 2 CK), also it's already been more than 5 years since my graduation. Being realistic I think that my chances to get a residency spot are very small. So my plan is to go to the osteopathic school, do my best on COMPLEX, recommend myself during rotations etc and improve thereby my chances of getting into a specialty I'm interested in (don't laugh but ideally it’s surgery. Now I’m also thinking about EM). But I don't quite understand what will happen with my USMLE scores and how they affect the match. Will I have a chance to retake Steps during the school? If not, then what could PDs think about the applicant, who took USMLE like 8-9 years ago and got bad scores but just graduated from osteopathic school with good COMPLEX and recommendations? I know that ACGME and AOA merging is coming so there are a lot of uncertainties and it is difficult to do any predictions but I would appreciate your opinions about this topic!

You will get to take the Comlex, but once you pass USMLE it is my understanding your done with that. I think the USMLE will show, at this point I would worry a little about getting left out in the wind again after DO school. I actually do think you would match into something (not ER, not Surgery tho) with those scores if you were a DO right now, but 5 -6 years in the future when there are less spots than US grads? That might be ugly. The only way I could see you doing either the specialties you are talking about is through FM in rural ER, or maybe peds with ER fellowship, if your coming from DO. I think surgery is out of the question.

But if you are gonna redo, why not just go full gun ho and do USMD? I can't find any restrictions on it. Maybe slightly harder, but your going full uphill anyway. And at a US school you might have a small chance of getting what you actually want.

 

[Serbli]

You will get to take the Comlex, but once you pass USMLE it is my understanding your done with that. I think the USMLE will show, at this point I would worry a little about getting left out in the wind again after DO school. I actually do think you would match into something (not ER, not Surgery tho) with those scores if you were a DO right now, but 5 -6 years in the future when there are less spots than US grads? That might be ugly. The only way I could see you doing either the specialties you are talking about is through FM in rural ER, or maybe peds with ER fellowship, if your coming from DO. I think surgery is out of the question.

But if you are gonna redo, why not just go full gun ho and do USMD? I can't find any restrictions on it. Maybe slightly harder, but your going full uphill anyway. And at a US school you might have a small chance of getting what you actually want.

Thanks for your response! Why do you think that the amount of residency programs will be less than amount of applicants?
There is a program in NYIT COM that was designed for IMG and do not require MCAT so I want to try it. And as I heard MD schools are closed for folks like me because I already passed USMLE and got ECFMG certificate. And since one cannot retake steps it means there is no point in getting into MD school.

 

[IslandStyle808]

A retake of a previously passed USMLE is possible, but it depends on your situation

United States Medical Licensing Examination | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)

1. Can I retake a Step that I previously passed?
   
   If you pass a Step or Step Component, you are not allowed to retake it, except to comply with certain state board requirements which have been previously approved by USMLE governance. For example, you may retake a passed Step to comply with the time limit of a medical licensing authority for the completion of all Steps or a requirement imposed by another authority recognized by the USMLE program for this purpose. The medical licensing authority must provide information showing that you are an applicant for licensure in that jurisdiction; have fulfilled all requirements for licensure in that jurisdiction; are eligible for licensure except for the out-of-date examination; and have completed the full USMLE sequence, including Step 3. Information regarding retakes allowed to comply with ECFMG requirements is provided at the time of exam application using ECFMG's Interactive Web Applications (IWA).
   
   If you are repeating a previously passed Step or Step Component because of a time limit, you may apply to retake the examination only after the applicable time limit has expired. An exception to this policy can be granted if, at the time of application and testing:
   
   • you are currently enrolled in an LCME- or AOA accredited medical school program leading to the MD or DO degree;
   • you have previously passed Step 1 and/or Step 2 but have not passed Step 3;
   • you are expected to graduate from the medical school program six or more years after the date you first passed Step 1 and/or Step 2; and
   • you are otherwise eligible to retake the examination.

 

[W19]

Apply FM (2oo+ programs) and then do an EM 'fellowship'...

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Thanks for your response! Why do you think that the amount of residency programs will be less than amount of applicants?
There is a program in NYIT COM that was designed for IMG and do not require MCAT so I want to try it. And as I heard MD schools are closed for folks like me because I already passed USMLE and got ECFMG certificate. And since one cannot retake steps it means there is no point in getting into MD school.

Disagree, you add a USMD to your stats, and even surgery might be an option with a good enough away rotation. I have heard of the emerge (sp?) program or w/e its called. Believe it is geared more towards IMG from say Europe than Caribbean FMG's. The Medical schools, in particular DO schools are expanding much faster than GME is (and the only GME expanding is pretty much primary care anyway). At some point I actually calculated it to be like 2021 or 22, but attrition may delay it a year or two longer, and I am not willing to recheck anymore.

Good thoughts up there by Island and W19

 

[W19]

Osteopathic Medicine, D.O. - Émigré Physicians Program | Degrees | NYIT

 

[Serbli]

Disagree, you add a USMD to your stats, and even surgery might be an option with a good enough away rotation. I have heard of the emerge (sp?) program or w/e its called. Believe it is geared more towards IMG from say Europe than Caribbean FMG's. The Medical schools, in particular DO schools are expanding much faster than GME is (and the only GME expanding is pretty much primary care anyway). At some point I actually calculated it to be like 2021 or 22, but attrition may delay it a year or two longer, and I am not willing to recheck anymore.

Good thoughts up there by Island and W19

W19 is right, Emigre Physician Program is what I was talking about. If today it is still geared more towards Eastern European IMG than it's good for me since I'm from there And since residency becoming more competitive for AMG that means it's going to be even more competitive for IMG. So I guess it is another 'pro' reason for redoing med/osteopathic school.

 

[Serbli]

A retake of a previously passed USMLE is possible, but it depends on your situation

United States Medical Licensing Examination | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)

1. Can I retake a Step that I previously passed?
   
   If you pass a Step or Step Component, you are not allowed to retake it, except to comply with certain state board requirements which have been previously approved by USMLE governance. For example, you may retake a passed Step to comply with the time limit of a medical licensing authority for the completion of all Steps or a requirement imposed by another authority recognized by the USMLE program for this purpose. The medical licensing authority must provide information showing that you are an applicant for licensure in that jurisdiction; have fulfilled all requirements for licensure in that jurisdiction; are eligible for licensure except for the out-of-date examination; and have completed the full USMLE sequence, including Step 3. Information regarding retakes allowed to comply with ECFMG requirements is provided at the time of exam application using ECFMG's Interactive Web Applications (IWA).
   
   If you are repeating a previously passed Step or Step Component because of a time limit, you may apply to retake the examination only after the applicable time limit has expired. An exception to this policy can be granted if, at the time of application and testing:
   • you are currently enrolled in an LCME- or AOA accredited medical school program leading to the MD or DO degree;
   • you have previously passed Step 1 and/or Step 2 but have not passed Step 3;
   • you are expected to graduate from the medical school program six or more years after the date you first passed Step 1 and/or Step 2; and
   • you are otherwise eligible to retake the examination.

Yeh, but the problem is that I already took Step 3. Anyway I asked ECFMG if I still qualify to retake the test and waiting for their response now.

 

[Serbli]

Apply FM (2oo+ programs) and then do an EM 'fellowship'...

I have never considered this option. Thanks for the hint!

 

[BorntobeDO?]

W19 is right, Emigre Physician Program is what I was talking about. If today it is still geared more towards Eastern European IMG than it's good for me since I'm from there And since residency becoming more competitive for AMG that means it's going to be even more competitive for IMG. So I guess it is another 'pro' reason for redoing med/osteopathic school.

Ah so you are IMG. Then yeah, that would be one to look at. Although applying to FM if you never have, is a good option also. I would personally look at each program and see if they have IMG's in them before applying, and I would personally call each program to explain your situation.

I have a friend who is an FMG and he got his residency because of this. We were cold calling FM programs and seeing if they would consider him, he didn't apply to any program that wouldn't talk to us, after calling about 30 places he got 3 interviews from talking to a secretary at one program. Unfortunately his residency decided not to take foreign grads or international grads as of last year. A couple bad seeds and the merger shut that door.

You didn't mention what school you came from, but if its not the big 4 or has substantial practice rights in the US (39 state eligible or w/e), I might bump going to the Emirge program up above it as an option. Edit: Does ECFMG mean 50 state eligible?

I should mention that an EM Fellowship will open some doors, but not everywhere. Look in the EM forum for more info. But once you get experience, you should have a decent market.

 

[Goro]

Hello everybody. I am an IMG and did not do well on steps (205 for Step 1 and "average" 235 for Step 2 CK), also it's already been more than 5 years since my graduation. Being realistic I think that my chances to get a residency spot are very small. So my plan is to go to the osteopathic school, do my best on COMPLEX, recommend myself during rotations etc and improve thereby my chances of getting into a specialty I'm interested in (don't laugh but ideally it’s surgery. Now I’m also thinking about EM). But I don't quite understand what will happen with my USMLE scores and how they affect the match. Will I have a chance to retake Steps during the school? If not, then what could PDs think about the applicant, who took USMLE like 8-9 years ago and got bad scores but just graduated from osteopathic school with good COMPLEX and recommendations? I know that ACGME and AOA merging is coming so there are a lot of uncertainties and it is difficult to do any predictions but I would appreciate your opinions about this topic!

Find a different career. You'd be DOA at my school.

 

[Serbli]

Ah so you are IMG. Then yeah, that would be one to look at. Although applying to FM if you never have, is a good option also. I would personally look at each program and see if they have IMG's in them before applying, and I would personally call each program to explain your situation.

I have a friend who is an FMG and he got his residency because of this. We were cold calling FM programs and seeing if they would consider him, he didn't apply to any program that wouldn't talk to us, after calling about 30 places he got 3 interviews from talking to a secretary at one program. Unfortunately his residency decided not to take foreign grads or international grads as of last year. A couple bad seeds and the merger shut that door.

You didn't mention what school you came from, but if its not the big 4 or has substantial practice rights in the US (39 state eligible or w/e), I might bump going to the Emirge program up above it as an option. Edit: Does ECFMG mean 50 state eligible?

I should mention that an EM Fellowship will open some doors, but not everywhere. Look in the EM forum for more info. But once you get experience, you should have a decent market.

Yes, having ECFMG certificate allows you to do residency in any state. I appreciate you advice, I think I will seriously consider that option with FM following by EM fellowship.

 

[Serbli]

Find a different career. You'd be DOA at my school.

I don't think so

 

[Goro]

I don't think so

You have two red flags:
A) IMG
B) multiple Board failures.

I agree that the only chance you have to to shotgun apps to different residencies, but as for getting into a DO school? You will be rejected at mine.

Will ARCOM, ICOM or RVU-UT take you? You could try, but I'm not sanguine as to the chances of your success.

 

[Serbli]

You have two red flags:
A) IMG
B) multiple Board failures.

I agree that the only chance you have to to shotgun apps to different residencies, but as for getting into a DO school? You will be rejected at mine.

Will ARCOM, ICOM or RVU-UT take you? You could try, but I'm not sanguine as to the chances of your success.

How does the fact that I am IMG would affect my application to a DO school? I didn't get it. It does affect residency application but we are not talking about that. And I've never said that I failed USMLE, especially multiple times. I got low score, that's true, but I've passed all steps from the first attempt. And again, in my understanding it has nothing to do with applying to a DO school. If I'm wrong, please explain me why are these facts red flags?


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[Goro]

How does the fact that I am IMG would affect my application to a DO school? I didn't get it. It does affect residency application but we are not talking about that. And I've never said that I failed USMLE, especially multiple times. I got low score, that's true, but I've passed all steps from the first attempt. And again, in my understanding it has nothing to do with applying to a DO school. If I'm wrong, please explain me why are these facts red flags?

Are you a US citizen?

My apologies for not reading your post more carefully.

You have two red flags:
A) IMG
B) Low Board scores

 

[GypsyHummus]

Its too bad too. I had a buddy of mine get a 202-205 on the Steps and ended up in Family med. He was a bottom tier student too.

Going to a US school matters folks, no way around it.

Find a different career. You'd be DOA at my school.

 

[Serbli]

Are you a US citizen?

My apologies for not reading your post more carefully.

You have two red flags:
A) IMG
B) Low Board scores

That's ok. I'm waiting for a green card, hope to get it relatively soon. I know these are my major weaknesses, that's why I'm considering DO school - to become AMG and compensate low USMLE scores by getting decent scores for COMPLEX


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[Goro]

That's ok. I'm waiting for a green card, hope to get it relatively soon. I know these are my major weaknesses, that's why I'm considering DO school - to become AMG and compensate low USMLE scores by getting decent scores for COMPLEX


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You're not helping yourself when you keep on referring to the COMLEX as "COMPLEX".

 

[Serbli]

You're not helping yourself when you keep on referring to the COMLEX as "COMPLEX".

ok

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

That's ok. I'm waiting for a green card, hope to get it relatively soon. I know these are my major weaknesses, that's why I'm considering DO school - to become AMG and compensate low USMLE scores by getting decent scores for COMPLEX


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What people are trying to tell you is that you will have an extremely difficult time convincing any American school to accept someone who already has a medical degree. Your best chance was to apply to residency the year you graduated, having a 5 year gap is a humongous red flag.

 

[Serbli]

What people are trying to tell you is that you will have an extremely difficult time convincing any American school to accept someone who already has a medical degree. Your best chance was to apply to residency the year you graduated, having a 5 year gap is a humongous red flag.

I know that. But unfortunately we cannot change the past, so I'm trying to figure out my next steps. And that's why I'm planning to apply to a special DO program that was designed for IMG so they shouldn't care that I'm already MD.

 

[jrlob91]

I know that. But unfortunately we cannot change the past, so I'm trying to figure out my next steps. And that's why I'm planning to apply to a special DO program that was designed for IMG so they shouldn't care that I'm already MD.

This exists?

 

[Serbli]

This exists?

Yep, Osteopathic Medicine, D.O. - Émigré Physicians Program | Degrees | NYIT


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[AnatomyGrey12]

I know that. But unfortunately we cannot change the past, so I'm trying to figure out my next steps. And that's why I'm planning to apply to a special DO program that was designed for IMG so they shouldn't care that I'm already MD.

Yep, Osteopathic Medicine, D.O. - Émigré Physicians Program | Degrees | NYIT


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The problem is that this isn't really for IMGs that are in your situation. You've already passed the USMLE. Why didn't you apply to residency right after graduation?

 

[Serbli]

The problem is that this isn't really for IMGs that are in your situation. You've already passed the USMLE. Why didn't you apply to residency right after graduation?

It's a long story. But so far people from the admission office at NYIT told me that my already passed USMLE should not be a problem.

 

[SurgDoc95]

Yep, Osteopathic Medicine, D.O. - Émigré Physicians Program | Degrees | NYIT


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If you're dead set on going for it then apply for the program. It would seem that would be your best shot at getting into a US med school. However, the application does say it's a competitive program that looks for high academic success. If you failed step 1/2 and then passed with very low scores I doubt they will look kindly on you. May be time to look into podiatry or another field even if you don't want to hear it.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

If you're dead set on going for it then apply for the program. It would seem that would be your best shot at getting into a US med school. However, the application does say it's a competitive program that looks for high academic success. If you failed step 1/2 and then passed with very low scores I doubt they will look kindly on you. May be time to look into podiatry or another field even if you don't want to hear it.

OP did not fail, he passed, he just had a relatively low score on step 1.

It's a long story. But so far people from the admission office at NYIT told me that my already passed USMLE should not be a problem.

So you are going to do that over trying to match outright this year? I know its a bit of long shot, but I still think it could happen. I mean DO will help the prospects some (well, I guess it will pretty much guarantee a residency), but everyone is still gonna look at your USMLE. Keep it updated tho, I am interested to see how you do.

 

[Serbli]

OP did not fail, he passed, he just had a relatively low score on step 1.

So you are going to do that over trying to match outright this year? I know its a bit of long shot, but I still think it could happen. I mean DO will help the prospects some (well, I guess it will pretty much guarantee a residency), but everyone is still gonna look at your USMLE. Keep it updated tho, I am interested to see how you do.

Thanks for the clarification of my USMLE status. I don't know why so many people assume I failed lol .
I'm waiting for a green card, and my initial plan was to apply to a DO program as soon as I get it. But now I'm also considering FM residency followed by EM fellowship, since there is such an option. So I think I will go to the Match and apply to DO school. Hopefully, it will happen next year.