Chances?

[stacey]

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Well this is going to something you guys never heard of. Lets start:

Currently I'm going to a state school (I'm not going to say which) as a transfer student. However, before that, I got a lot of C grades, a few D's and a F or two but really that's it. With the retake policy I have a transfer GPA of 2.0, but that GPA already factors in some of the D and F grades. However since transferring I got a B- in O-chem, C- in Calculus based physics, but I got a B in the lab for that class. Right now I'm finishing up Ochem and taking the rest of the Physics classes this semester, but I'm pretty sure that I can pull B+ grades in the classes, if not higher.

On a last note I still have about 50 or so units to go before I graduate, so I have plenty of classes to take (and chances to boost my GPA)

So does the AMCAS or whatever it's called factor in each retake or what? And obviously, what are my chances at this rate?

 

[eric51]

This is definitely not something we have never heard of. The AMCAS will count all of the grades you have gotten, regardless if you have retaken them or not. So those Cs, Ds, and Fs are there to stay. Your chances at an MD school are probably pretty slim, as it's going to be very hard to make up for a bunch of very bad grades like that, even if you get all As.
The AACOMAS (the application for DO schools) will only count the retakes, and ignore the first time you took a class, although I believe there is a limit to the number of classes you can do this with. So for DO school, if you can retake some of those classes, especially the pre-reqs, and get As, you might have a shot of getting in.
Of course, there is a lot more to the application than just GPA. Even to have a shot at a DO school, you still need good MCAT scores, good ECs, and a good personal statement and interview.

 

[stacey]

Well I have 50 hours or so of volunteer experience in a hospital, and I may be doing some research classes ( complete with writing published reports) within the next semester so I do have a lot of extracurricular work coming up. I may also switch to job tutoring o-chem, and whatever classes I excel in to cut down the time I may need to study for the MCAT

I'm figuring that if I were to keep with my plan that I should be able to break a 3.0 by summer, since I don't exactly have a LOT of D/F grades, just a lot of Cs. Obviously top tier schools are out of the question, but I DO have a lot of professors that notices my huge improvement in terms of digesting "high-end" material.


And on a last note I'm mainly looking into applying for 50-state accredited Caribbean med schools like Ross and St. Geroges, if that helps you guys. And to be honest, I think its a bit early to say "You have low chances" since I got quite a bit of course work to go.

 

[eric51]

And on a last note I'm mainly looking into applying for 50-state accredited Caribbean med schools like Ross and St. Geroges, if that helps you guys. And to be honest, I think its a bit early to say "You have low chances" since I got quite a bit of course work to go.

Caribbean schools are a lot easier to get into than US schools, so you may be right, although I have to say I'm not really that familiar with their admission requirements. However, for a US MD school, it's almost impossible to get in with anything under a 3.0 GPA, and getting a B-, C- and B in your first semester since you've transferred does not sound like you are on track to getting your GPA up to even a 3.0. If you make straight As in the rest of your classes, and maybe even do a post-bac year, you might have a chance at a US MD school, but otherwise it's really not too early for me to say you have low chances. It also really depends on how well you can do on the MCAT of course.

 

[stacey]

Well I do know of someone that was in the same situation as I was, graduated with a 2.9GPA, got a 32 on the MCAT, redid some courses at a community college, and got into a few California schools out of all things. Even an advisior, and med school admission officer (Don't plan on applying to the school) couldn't give me a clear answer, so this really seems like a situation of waiting and seeing what happens.

Oh and one last thing, all the Carriebian med schools I've looked into calculate their grades independant of AMCAS.

And does anyone have an idea on what subjects the MCAT covers? I've scored around the 85th percentile on the ACS test if that gives a pretiction on my MCAT scores.

Anyhoo, I think I'd stick to seeing an advisor for the best course of action vs some pre-meds on the internet (Not youing to knock your knowledge). I do appreciate your guys insight however. 🙂

 

[eric51]

Anyhoo, I think I'd stick to seeing an advisor for the best course of action vs some pre-meds on the internet (Not youing to knock your knowledge).

Great. Then why are you still asking us questions?

 

[MilkmanAl]

This is definitely not something we have never heard of. The AMCAS will count all of the grades you have gotten, regardless if you have retaken them or not. So those Cs, Ds, and Fs are there to stay. Your chances at an MD school are probably pretty slim, as it's going to be very hard to make up for a bunch of very bad grades like that, even if you get all As.
The AACOMAS (the application for DO schools) will only count the retakes, and ignore the first time you took a class, although I believe there is a limit to the number of classes you can do this with. So for DO school, if you can retake some of those classes, especially the pre-reqs, and get As, you might have a shot of getting in.
Of course, there is a lot more to the application than just GPA. Even to have a shot at a DO school, you still need good MCAT scores, good ECs, and a good personal statement and interview.

Sound advice. I'd go the retake route and apply DO. You're pretty much SOL at MD schools barring some serious post-bac work and a whooooooole lot of A's. Retake all the courses you got a C- or worse in, and kick some booty. Getting B-'s in retakes isn't going to cut it.

For the record, chances are your adviser is going to be far less informed than many individuals on this site and certainly less so than all of us combined. Who you trust is obviously your prerogative, but I'd suggest using SDN as your main info source where med school admission is concerned.

 

[stacey]

Great. Then why are you still asking us questions?

Relying on a single source isn't a good idea, and I get a feeling that the advisor is telling me stuff that I want to hear as opposed to the hard truth. I just want to learn the best way to get out of the fix that I'm in right now.

Sound advice. I'd go the retake route and apply DO. You're pretty much SOL at MD schools barring some serious post-bac work and a whooooooole lot of A's. Retake all the courses you got a C- or worse in, and kick some booty. Getting B-'s in retakes isn't going to cut it.

For the record, chances are your adviser is going to be far less informed than many individuals on this site and certainly less so than all of us combined. Who you trust is obviously your prerogative, but I'd suggest using SDN as your main info source where med school admission is concerned.

Right. Mostly all my C classes are gen-eds while the handful of D/F grades are BCPM unfortunately. Some of them I made up already with B's but really I'm not trying to stay in undergrad forever, I don't have the funds or the time to do so. Like I said before, I'll keep this thread updated with my current GPA status among other things. By the looks of it I think I'll go the Caribbean route, and I should be getting around a ~2.3 overall by this semester's end.


Anyway exactly what is a "competitive" GPA for Allopathic schools?

 

[MilkmanAl]

Anyway exactly what is a "competitive" GPA for Allopathic schools?

I'd say the lower end is at about a 3.4. Anything lower than that is trouble.

By the looks of it I think I'll go the Caribbean route

Yikes. I don't want to get the DO vs. Caribbean thing going, but I'd apply to DO schools long before going to the Caribbean if you're planning on practicing in the U.S.

 

[stacey]

Yikes. I don't want to get the DO vs. Caribbean thing going, but I'd apply to DO schools long before going to the Caribbean if you're planning on practicing in the U.S.

A 3.4 sounds possible to obtain since I still have a good 50-70 units to obtain before I'm out. After all I have to keep high marks in school anyway to even get admitted to all the research labs to start with, and half of the reason I'm here is because I wanted to have a more informed opinion of Caribbean schools. So tell me, why such a low opinion? Please PM me if you think it's necessary; I want to look at every option thoroughly at this point.

 

[Catalystik]

If you need more information about Caribbean schools, go to SDN's International Medicine>Caribbean Forum where you can read widely and get the perspectives of students who've been there.

 

[stacey]

If you need more information about Caribbean schools, go to SDN's International Medicine>Caribbean Forum where you can read widely and get the perspectives of students who've been there.

Just read all the stuff about not finding a match , and it sounds brutal. Is there any disadvantages to getting a DO as opposed to an MD?

And one last thing, do I need to report every grade on my transcript? There's a few grades on my transcript that says "credits disallowed" and it was not calculated to my overall GPA, and there was an F grade received because it was originally an incomplete grade.

 

[Catalystik]

A small disadvantage to the DO degree is that some countries outside the US don't an allow unlimited scope of practice.

You will be required to submit an original transcript from every college attended. Even if one school doesn't list your transferred grades, AMCAS will include all grades ever earned in your application GPA calculation. If you "forget" to submit past transcripts, AMCAS will remind you, as they have other ways to track past schools attended.

 

[njbmd]

A 3.4 sounds possible to obtain since I still have a good 50-70 units to obtain before I'm out. After all I have to keep high marks in school anyway to even get admitted to all the research labs to start with, and half of the reason I'm here is because I wanted to have a more informed opinion of Caribbean schools. So tell me, why such a low opinion? Please PM me if you think it's necessary; I want to look at every option thoroughly at this point.

The major problem with attending an offshore school is getting back into the United States to practice. The rules for offshore graduates, regardless of citizenship, can change at any time (especially with the increase in US grads) and thus, if you have not started medical school, you won't have any guarantees in terms of getting into residency or even practice in this country.

The next major problem is finding funding to pay for your medical education. This can be problematic for many students as federal funding/loans is likely not going to apply to offshore schools. Private loans have higher interest rates and may have different rules when it comes to paying those loans back. Also keep in mind that some offshore schools are quite expensive and thus borrowing money becomes an issue for many students. If you are independently wealthy, this may not be an issue for you.

You may want to thoroughly investigate the International Medical schools forum to get an idea of what kinds of obstacles some offshore medical grads face in trying to practice in this country. When it comes to expensive education, getting the best advice and information that you can, makes good sense.

At this point, osteopathic medical schools will take your retake grades into consideration for application meaning that your latest (and hopefully best) grades will boost your undergraduate GPA faster under their system. You ought to look into these schools as you have a long way to go with much "damage-control" to undertake.

Entering osteopathic medical school would allow you to practice in this country a bit easier and would allow you to qualify for federal loans as they are US schools. Also keep in mind that osteopathic medical graduates have access to osteopathic and allopathic residencies which can give you more options in terms of specialties. If you want to become a physician, with your uGPA (you are only going to get it so high under the allopathic system), osteopathic schools make good sense.

 

[stacey]

A small disadvantage to the DO degree is that some countries outside the US don't an allow unlimited scope of practice.

You will be required to submit an original transcript from every college attended. Even if one school doesn't list your transferred grades, AMCAS will include all grades ever earned in your application GPA calculation. If you "forget" to submit past transcripts, AMCAS will remind you, as they have other ways to track past schools attended.

It wasn't a transferred grade, what happened was that I was never dropped because I didn't meet the school's prerequisites/violated a school policy, and they didn't catch it until the grade was issued.

Do I have to self report all these grades? It's going to be a complete headache to see which grades do and don't count.

@njb: Yeah, I'm Keeping DO in mind, but really what happens if I want to practice out of country? By the sounds of it, an MD is more readily accepted around the world than a DO degree. And lastly, even though I'm far from this step, I really want to get as much info as possible before I start plunking down $$$ for med schools. What I'm really trying to avoid is to go to a Med school, finding out that I want to specialize, and then not having the option to match to a residency program that I want.

 

[Stratego]

You would list a grade the same way the school issuing it has it listed on their transcript. You might consider petitioning to have that F removed since it sounds like an administrative error, if you didn't already correct it.

Here is a list of how DO degrees are looked at in many countries: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=107627

 

[slowbutsteady]

Well I do know of someone that was in the same situation as I was, graduated with a 2.9GPA, got a 32 on the MCAT, redid some courses at a community college, and got into a few California schools out of all things. Even an advisior, and med school admission officer (Don't plan on applying to the school) couldn't give me a clear answer, so this really seems like a situation of waiting and seeing what happens.

Oh and one last thing, all the Carriebian med schools I've looked into calculate their grades independant of AMCAS.

And does anyone have an idea on what subjects the MCAT covers? I've scored around the 85th percentile on the ACS test if that gives a pretiction on my MCAT scores.

Anyhoo, I think I'd stick to seeing an advisor for the best course of action vs some pre-meds on the internet (Not youing to knock your knowledge). I do appreciate your guys insight however. 🙂

Anyhoo, uh, correct me if I am wrong, but YOU asked US. You don't like the answers, so you say you won't listen to "premeds on the internet."

Let me add to the chorus of "pretictions" you are now in the process of rejecting: The quality of students at Carrib schools is rising fast as the difficulty of getting into US med schools also rises. Based on your stats and the quality of your posts, I would say Carrib med schools are a long shot and MD/DO are out out of the question for you.

They aren't just letting anyone become a doctor these days.

 

[stacey]

Anyhoo, uh, correct me if I am wrong, but YOU asked US. You don't like the answers, so you say you won't listen to "premeds on the internet."

Let me add to the chorus of "pretictions" you are now in the process of rejecting: The quality of students at Carrib schools is rising fast as the difficulty of getting into US med schools also rises. Based on your stats and the quality of your posts, I would say Carrib med schools are a long shot and MD/DO are out out of the question for you.

They aren't just letting anyone become a doctor these days.

Of course I asked, and I wasn't expecting a glamorous response. I also came here for more information/advice, not necessairly hearing your guy's opinion, only to disregard it within a few minutes.

A) They aren't just letting anyone become a doctor these days. No **** eh? The question I've been asking is "How can I get competitive" not "Will anyone accept me with my horrible stats at this point" Like I said before I'm a long way away from getting my degree, finishing the necessary pre-reqs, and taking the MCAT, let alone submitting my application.

B) Based on your stats and the quality of your posts...Again see above. Did you even bother to read through the thread? I already acknowledge that getting my stats up to par is going to be a long and hard road, and I'm more than willing to do so. Besides, getting into Med school as I am right now, and then flunking out would be a financial and academic disaster in the making. That said, do I really need your judgmental post in this thread? If you aren't going to add anything constructive in this thread, then kindly GTFO.

Honestly an elitist response like that is the last thing I need to hear from.

 

[apumic]

Well I do know of someone that was in the same situation as I was, graduated with a 2.9GPA, got a 32 on the MCAT, redid some courses at a community college, and got into a few California schools out of all things. Even an advisior, and med school admission officer (Don't plan on applying to the school) couldn't give me a clear answer, so this really seems like a situation of waiting and seeing what happens.

And does anyone have an idea on what subjects the MCAT covers? I've scored around the 85th percentile on the ACS test if that gives a pretiction on my MCAT scores.

Stacey, welcome to SDN.

The MCAT covers basic (1st yr) bio, chem, physics, o-chem, and verbal reasoning.

As far as knowing someone who got in with such and such stats, the truth is that means nothing. Everybody "knows someone" who "got in" with some unorthodox set of criteria. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority don't (and those who do typically have excellent reasons for having such poor GPA or MCAT scores -- e.g., mom died sophomore year, student was dx'd w/ cancer junior year, had to work 40 hrs/wk to feed your family while holding down a full-load and preparing for the MCAT simultaneously, etc.). That being said, if you work hard and are able to get your GPA up into the 3.x range, you should be able to regain some competitiveness in your application. It's really up to you. You said you have about 50 units left so you're halfway through college. If you have a 2.5 right now w/ 70 units and earn a 3.7 (A- average) in your remaining 50 units of coursework, you'll be at exactly a 3.0. If you are able to get straight As you'll be just above a 3.1. While those will still limit you quite a bit, a 3.1 gives you about an 18% chance of getting in somewhere. Not great considering the cost of application but it sure is better than playing the lotto!

 

[stacey]

I appreciate all of you guy's advice. (ap I think I would have closer to 60 units before everything is said and done). And No genetics, cell bio, Biochem, etc. on the MCAT? Like I said before I've scored pretty high on the ACS Gen Chem exam, and I'm doing pretty well in Organic now so I'm not too worried about the Chem section of the MCAT.

Oh if it does matter I'm a URM. I don't think it will make much of a difference (and I rather earn something out of merit, not out of URM status)

 

[apumic]

I appreciate all of you guy's advice. (ap I think I would have closer to 60 units before everything is said and done). And No genetics, cell bio, Biochem, etc. on the MCAT? Like I said before I've scored pretty high on the ACS Gen Chem exam, and I'm doing pretty well in Organic now so I'm not too worried about the Chem section of the MCAT.

Oh if it does matter I'm a URM. I don't think it will make much of a difference (and I rather earn something out of merit, not out of URM status)

the courses themselves aren't really necessary for the MCAT but there may be genetics, cell bio, physio, etc.-based questions on it.

The "chem" section is actually parts of two different sections. Gen chem is covered by the PS (Physical Sciences) section (50% G-Chem/50% Physics), while O-Chem is covered on the BS (Biological Sciences) section (80% Biology/20% O-Chem).

Your URM status would certainly be helpful but really only if you can get that GPA up to at least a 3.0.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

google is your friend.