change of career path during training

[chef]

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a few of my friends & i had an interesting discussion today .. what should a mstp do when one completely realizes she wants to pursue hardcore clinical work eg vascular surgery during his first 2 years of medical school but initially thought she would be happier doing more research than clinical stuff? should one withdraw from the program or should one complete the program anyway to 'keep the doors open' in case one changes her mind again or because phd can help in her clinical career?

btw this happened after a very moving and enlightening lecture by 2 brilliant surgeons who made surgery sound great.. make an immediate difference in a patient's life, get an instant gratification and satisfaction, challenging but yet exciting lifestyle, etc etc

 

[Primate]

Having been there, my advice (worth what you've paid) is to hang in there. One lecture probably shouldn't be the basis for a life-changing career decision, especially before you've done the lab bit or clinical (especially your surgical) rotations. Although my surgical friends probably would liken it to religion..... 😉

Did the sound of surgery change what you initially liked about lab work? Does the mere thought of cutting make research unpallatable? If so, I suspect you've not been so gung-ho on the MSTP to begin with (just a hunch).

Pulling what we always called a "two and screw" (similar to the "one and run" but more annoying to program directors who're out an extra year of dough) won't make you any friends in the med school admin, but you've gotta do what you've gotta do. I suggest, however, you cool your jets and think this one over.

One lecture does not a surgeon make.

Best

 

[Neuronix]

I shadowed a surgeon yesterday who thought MD/PhD and academic surgery was a great combination. I like the way she put it, "If you say academic surgeons can't do research you'd be tossed out of their office because they're all doing it. The difference is that they're more likely to only have four people in a lab and meet with their lab staff once a week." That sounds good to me. Just because I'm not running a lab with 10+ people and I'm not writing grants and shaking test tubes all day long, doesn't mean I'm a waste of a PhD. Considering how well MD/PhDs tend to do in the match, including competitive surgical suspecialties, residency directors must agree.

The resident I was with was a recent grad of WashU's MSTP on a transitional year before ophtho.

My point is that there's nothing wrong with MD/PhDs going to do surgery. It's interesting to look at the numbers and see how many actually do go into surgery. I don't have them with me now, but including Ophtho I believe Penn put out 5 last year and WashU put out something like 6+ (their MD/PhD match list is no longer posted from what I can find). If that's what you love, why not stay with the MD/PhD? It doesn't mean you have to drop the MD/PhD. It doesn't mean you're wasting your time.

Just don't go into private practice and show me up 🙂

 

[Hermeone]

So, you dont' need a Md/PhD to be a surgeon?

 

[Primate]

As usual, I agree with Neuronix's main point. As he says, though, those numbers do include Ophtho, and ophtho is not your typical general surgery lifestyle. So, yes, one can be a surgeon and run a lab. However, it does make a difference what kind of surgeon you want to be (I know, I know, there ARE examples of neurosurgeons who run labs, but let's consider the middle 90%, not the outliers).

It's MUCH easier to be a bench researcher in ophtho than many other surgical specialties.

So, no, don't give up just because you (think you might) want to cut. My question is: do you actually want to do research? Very different than if you want to be "just" a surgeon (not that there's anything wrong with that....). 'course, there's always clinical research, but one can argue whether or not a bench PhD is necessary/useful for this.

Just some more to chew on.

P

 

[Neuronix]

Originally posted by Hermeone
So, you dont' need a Md/PhD to be a surgeon?

Absolutely not. If you are interested in surgery primarily with no or only secondary interest in research, go the MD route. You'll save yourself alot of time.