changing medical education

[Oh_Gee]

http://www.innovatewithama.com/

here's your chance, folks

what's the future? TBL? lol

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[cbrons]

Its going to be a bunch of those rich white kids in m1/m2 proposing more non-sensical diversity education/indoctrination seminars to become part of med curriculum. There will not be much in the way of progressive education models, after all how are the corrupt and talentless adminstrators going to be relevant if they cant force the med students to attend their 1800-style lectures from an old phd hack who is still using his lecture notes from 1993.

 

[WingedOx]

http://www.jefferson.edu/university...education-consortium&utm_campaign=usocial2015

well one school's idea has something to do with EMR training... how useful it will be I have no idea,

Still, each school will submit a "groundbreaking idea" 🙄. Sounds too much like a ****ing TED talk.

 

[sinombre]

Incorporating "EMR training" into a medical school model makes no sense. The vast majority of medical students are in their 20s and 30s have grown up using computers, so even the worst EMRs are fairly intuitive.

 

[WingedOx]

Incorporating "EMR training" into a medical school model makes no sense. The vast majority of medical students are in their 20s and 30s have grown up using computers, so even the worst EMRs are fairly intuitive.

At least back in the days when I was applying for residency (2010), I know Jefferson hospital was still paper charts, so there's that. However I'm not exactly sure what would be "ground breaking" about teaching them Cerner or Epic... useful, but certainly not something they'd deserve a grant for.

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

Its going to be a bunch of those rich white kids in m1/m2 proposing more non-sensical diversity education/indoctrination seminars to become part of med curriculum. There will not be much in the way of progressive education models, after all how are the corrupt and talentless adminstrators going to be relevant if they cant force the med students to attend their 1800-style lectures from an old phd hack who is still using his lecture notes from 1993.

lmao probs the best post I've ever seen on sdn

 

[URMD]

Incorporating "EMR training" into a medical school model makes no sense. The vast majority of medical students are in their 20s and 30s have grown up using computers, so even the worst EMRs are fairly intuitive.

In my (albeit limited experience) using EMR at my school, I have found this to be completely untrue. While I can grasp how an EMR works and use it, I cannot use it efficiently at all. That is the main problem - not that they can't be used, but that they are not intuitive and actually decrease physician charting efficiency. Training for people to bridge this gap may help in the future.

Even if not the case, what your saying is akin to saying that medical students shouldn't learn to do paper charting back in the day, because they already know how to write english. Training to make you faster on EMR's and help you understand EMR's definitely has some benefit for medical students IMO.

 

[GUH]

Incorporating "EMR training" into a medical school model makes no sense. The vast majority of medical students are in their 20s and 30s have grown up using computers, so even the worst EMRs are fairly intuitive.

In my (albeit limited experience) using EMR at my school, I have found this to be completely untrue. While I can grasp how an EMR works and use it, I cannot use it efficiently at all. That is the main problem - not that they can't be used, but that they are not intuitive and actually decrease physician charting efficiency. Training for people to bridge this gap may help in the future.

Even if not the case, what your saying is akin to saying that medical students shouldn't learn to do paper charting back in the day, because they already know how to write english. Training to make you faster on EMR's and help you understand EMR's definitely has some benefit for medical students IMO.

I understand what you're saying and agree with it to some extent but right now there is too much variation in medical records systems between hospitals to make mandatory EMR training for preclinical medical students worthwhile.
For example, on one of my first rotations it took me two weeks to learn that you had to log into a whole different electronic records system in order to access radiology reports less than a day old. On other rotations I've had trouble accessing medication lists, family contact information, or other important material. No two hospitals or clinics I've worked in so far has used the same system. Teaching me how to use one system would not have helped me significantly. It might be different for students who do all of their rotations at a single hospital, but many of us don't.

 

[WingedOx]

Training to make you faster at the EMR will make you faster only at using THAT EMR. So then you go somewhere else and have to basically start from scratch.

EMRs are intuitive enough that anyone who grew up using computers can pick them up. That's not to say they are perfect or the most user-friendly thing out there, but there really doesn't need to be any special training.

...at least not in med school. Trying to bill/code on my last institution's version of Cerner was such a cluster**** that were had the Cerner reps on speed dial, but that's a resident/attending level problem and not something a med student needs to care about.

Even for something like CPRS, the way one VA has it set up can be totally different than the VA down the street despite the exact same software.

 

[URMD]

I understand what you're saying and agree with it to some extent but right now there is too much variation in medical records systems between hospitals to make mandatory EMR training for preclinical medical students worthwhile.
For example, on one of my first rotations it took me two weeks to learn that you had to log into a whole different electronic records system in order to access radiology reports less than a day old. On other rotations I've had trouble accessing medication lists, family contact information, or other important material. No two hospitals or clinics I've worked in so far has used the same system. Teaching me how to use one system would not have helped me significantly. It might be different for students who do all of their rotations at a single hospital, but many of us don't.

Training to make you faster at the EMR will make you faster only at using THAT EMR. So then you go somewhere else and have to basically start from scratch.

EMRs are intuitive enough that anyone who grew up using computers can pick them up. That's not to say they are perfect or the most user-friendly thing out there, but there really doesn't need to be any special training.

...at least not in med school. Trying to bill/code on my last institution's version of Cerner was such a cluster**** that were had the Cerner reps on speed dial, but that's a resident/attending level problem and not something a med student needs to care about.

Even for something like CPRS, the way one VA has it set up can be totally different than the VA down the street despite the exact same software.

These points I can understand and agree with. More logically sound than the first point I initially responded to thanks for that.
Do you guys think that EMRs should be standardized across facilities? Or at least in the same HMO/ACO. Or do you think that the current setup is fine?

 

[Psai]

These points I can understand and agree with. More logically sound than the first point I initially responded to thanks for that.
Do you guys think that EMRs should be standardized across facilities? Or at least in the same HMO/ACO. Or do you think that the current setup is fine?

Yes. We have a hospital where they use three different emrs in the actual building. What's the point of putting everything on a computer if it's hard to access it elsewhere and has to be faxed anyway

 

[racerwad]

These points I can understand and agree with. More logically sound than the first point I initially responded to thanks for that.
Do you guys think that EMRs should be standardized across facilities? Or at least in the same HMO/ACO. Or do you think that the current setup is fine?

of course they should be, but the mandate for electronic records did not include a mandate for interoperablity, so...Single systems do usually have the same EMR across sites, but even different services within the same institution can have different variations or software packages.

A course in med school to "learn" how to use EMRs is a total waste of time.

 

[Oh_Gee]

What if the US adopted the system that France uses where everyone has their medical history on 1 standardized system?

 

[Psai]

What if the US adopted the system that France uses where everyone has their medical history on 1 standardized system?

That would make too much sense

 

[Oh_Gee]

That would make too much sense

yeah it's too un-american to do something like that. i should be hung for treason for even bringing it up

 

[qw098]

yeah it's too un-american to do something like that. i should be hung for treason for even bringing it up

ban him

 

[jdh71]

Training to make you faster at the EMR will make you faster only at using THAT EMR. So then you go somewhere else and have to basically start from scratch.

EMRs are intuitive enough that anyone who grew up using computers can pick them up. That's not to say they are perfect or the most user-friendly thing out there, but there really doesn't need to be any special training.

The "links" are even blue!! When in doubt look for some blue underlined text to click on!!!

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Training to make you faster at the EMR will make you faster only at using THAT EMR. So then you go somewhere else and have to basically start from scratch.

EMRs are intuitive enough that anyone who grew up using computers can pick them up. That's not to say they are perfect or the most user-friendly thing out there, but there really doesn't need to be any special training.

I rarely disagree with you but there is an aspect of this that matters. When placing medical students and residents in community practices for one month rotations or longitudinal experiences, they would like them to be up to speed on their EMR systems before starting there. This is a big issue for some practices and may determine if they agree to take the trainees. Recognizing the limitation you noted, having an EMR lab or other training opportunity in EMR at a med school to learn the most common community practice EMR basics would be of value, based on extensive feedback I have received from community physicians. Limited benefit overall, but not a trivial concern.