Changing my Job..need advice please

[LunestaNites]

I need some constructive advice because this is a huge decision for me and I"m sure a lot of you on here have faced this in the past. I have been racking my brain for days considering all options and my future and still can't seem to come to a decision. Here's the problem:

I graduated in May from one of the top 10 pharmacy schools in the country (yeah this may not count now but I"m sure it will as far as promotions or better jobs in the future). I took a job with a major chain and have been going through hell with them and their scheduling. I never know when I am working or where I'm working. I'm lucky if I get a call the day before a shift to let me know what time I'm working and the location. Essentially, I am a floater pharmacist with no end in site to this madness. I've been so frustrated I started looking for a new job.

Recently I was offered a job at a hospital (200 bed). It's very small which will be great for learning because I have no hospital experience and am a little scared I won't know what I'm doing.

The answer may seem easy. Go to the hospital which will help shape my future because once I"m there I can go anywhere after. Also the hospital will be more consistent and secure as far as scheduling for me goes. I'll be going to the same place everyday, know what hours I work and work with the same people everyday (could be good or bad).

My problem is this. Going to this hospital would mean taking a 23K/year pay cut. There isn't a sign on bonus. For me that's a huge pay cut. I expected maybe a 10K pay cut and would have taken that on the spot if that were the case, but it's not. Coming out of school, I am trying to get myself settled financially and it's been tough. I know loans will always be there but I am trying to get rid of a private loan that is at a high interest rate and save because as we know most companies hold out on 401Ks until months later or even a year. I just became eligible for my benefits (medical etc) with the retail chain I am with so I will lose that and have to wait a month with the hospital before I do get medical coverage. I am looking at all angles. I know that eventually I would want to go a more clinical route maybe after a year, year and a half but it's a hard decision when I think about my financial situation right now.

If anyone can give me some advice as to what they think. I'd be more than thankful.

Sorry it was so long btw.

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[SGPharmD]

I know I'm not even in pharmacy school yet, but to me a 23K cut is a lot just to not be a floater. Most pharmacists that just graduate are floaters for a while, and you just graduated in May. If you don't like the chain, I'd try another one that's my advice, but just graudating I wouldn't be financially stable enough to take a 23K pay cut with all the loan I will have. That's just my $.02

 

[Epic]

200 Bed hospital isn't small by any means. It's actually an ideal size for learning and it will probably give you a great lifestyle.

As far as your paycut, did you calcuate evening and weekend differentials into the mix? And perhaps on call pay and overtime?

You can make up some of the differences by picking up some per diem hours.

In the long run, you'll be better off at a hospital...if you want to eventually advance your career.

 

[Epic]

btw, your top 10 school means jack chit.. you better get that out of your head...quicker the better.

 

[tussionex]

i second that....

200 beds isn't small...it's big enough to keep it interesting, small enough to be manageable....you dont want your first hospital experience to be, say, an inner city medical center with 1000 beds....

as far as pay goes....there are lots of differentials that you can take advantage of, particularly if it's a union house.

if you want to advance yourself...well, it's the place to be. be a sponge, absorb everything...learn who the players are, what the "culture" of the place is...ie, pharmacy has influence or nurses run the show. be extremely helpful and polite to the people who matter...and to the people that don't!

 

[tussionex]

btw, your top 10 school means jack chit.. you better get that out of your head...quicker the better.

i second that, too...if i were dop and hiring you...i wouldn't want to hear that; it would make me think that the potential candidate may have an attitude problem.

 

[Epic]

i second that, too...if i were dop and hiring you...i wouldn't want to hear that; it would make me think that the potential candidate may have an attitude problem.

If you're going to second everything I say..why don't you just let me do the talking..

 

[pharmacogenomic]

I agree with Epic - you have a pay cut now, but with the differentials, you won't feel it so much.

But, what you will feel is the uniqueness of the scheduling that goes on in hospitals. They work 24/7 - 365. So - all those shifts have to be covered & its normally going to be the low man on the totem pole who gets the shaft.

So - you gotta plan on working every Thanksgiving, Christmas, Kwaanza, spring break & every other major holiday. You'll get your vacation in February, but only after the Feb break schools have.


So, theres always a trade off. Professionally, you'll build yourself better by spending some years in a hospital. You'll also be able to take with you some strengths you don't carry right now. New grads, right now, are easy to find, so they get used where the stores need them. They don't have enough experience yet to take over a regular staff job, which is much different from a floater job - I know.....I'm trying to teach a pharmacist who has been a floater for 7 years to be staff. Its a different mindset!

You'll live to what you earn. If you earn less, you'll live on that less income. If - and its a big if - you get a regular schedule working in a hospital - you can always float your days off.

200 beds is a great size, especially if they are full service - have a fully functioning ER, ICU, OR, etc...

Good luck!

 

[Epic]

i second that....

200 beds isn't small...it's big enough to keep it interesting, small enough to be manageable....you dont want your first hospital experience to be, say, an inner city medical center with 1000 beds....

arrghh.. I may have to spend a few weeks at an inner city medical center with 1000 beds near you...soon.. and I don't want to.

 

[Epic]

I agree with Epic - you have a pay cut now, but with the differentials, you won't feel it so much.

But, what you will feel is the uniqueness of the scheduling that goes on in hospitals. They work 24/7 - 365. So - all those shifts have to be covered & its normally going to be the low man on the totem pole who gets the shaft.

So - you gotta plan on working every Thanksgiving, Christmas, Kwaanza, spring break & every other major holiday. You'll get your vacation in February, but only after the Feb break schools have.


So, theres always a trade off. Professionally, you'll build yourself better by spending some years in a hospital. You'll also be able to take with you some strengths you don't carry right now. New grads, right now, are easy to find, so they get used where the stores need them. They don't have enough experience yet to take over a regular staff job, which is much different from a floater job - I know.....I'm trying to teach a pharmacist who has been a floater for 7 years to be staff. Its a different mindset!

You'll live to what you earn. If you earn less, you'll live on that less income. If - and its a big if - you get a regular schedule working in a hospital - you can always float your days off.

200 beds is a great size, especially if they are full service - have a fully functioning ER, ICU, OR, etc...

Good luck!

And if you're going to agree with what I say..why don't you just let me do the talking too..

 

[tussionex]

And if you're going to agree with what I say..why don't you just let me do the talking too..

because, despite the avatar....we're cuter!

 

[Epic]

because, despite the avatar....we're cuter!

you got me there..

 

[BiOGoly]

You will always take somewhat of a pay cut going from community to hospital, but on the upside you generally have better seniority pay in hospitals, so overtime you might reach parity (or exceed) with your community counterpart. If you think hospital is where you want to be, the sooner you make the switch the better, for the reasons previously mentioned.

If the pay cut is too severe, I would shop around a bit. Wages and benefits can vary widely depending on the health system you are working for. From what I've heard, swapping hospitals isn't the same as swapping chains stores. Hospital pharmacists tend to become ensconced once they settle into a location...you better make sure the climate at the hospital you choose fits you.

Also, about the 23k difference in pay...it helps to think of it in terms of post-tax income, if you do the calculation I'm sure the pay difference won't look so bad. Heck, if they have a really good 401k match and short vestment time, you might come out pretty even.

 

[rxlynn]

You don't tell us how old you are (i.e. how much you have to be concerned about in terms of how soon you will need that 401(k), how many other obligations you have, etc.) but my advice (assuming you don't have the huge mortgage and 3 small children to support scenario) is to go ahead and bit the bullet and take the hospital job. If you think that you are interested in the hospital side of things, I would think that going there sooner rather than later would be the way to go. I know that some people may disagree with me, but it seems from what I see that you could always go back to retail (as long as you are breathing and have a license) whereas it might be much harder to switch to hospital 10 years down the road.

And, if/when you quit the chain job, be sure to tell them exactly why you are quitting. The chains will not change how they treat pharmacists until pharmacists step up and demand better.

 

[rxlynn]

I need some constructive advice because this is a huge decision for me and I"m sure a lot of you on here have faced this in the past. I have been racking my brain for days considering all options and my future and still can't seem to come to a decision. Here's the problem:

I graduated in May from one of the top 10 pharmacy schools in the country (yeah this may not count now but I"m sure it will as far as promotions or better jobs in the future). I took a job with a major chain and have been going through hell with them and their scheduling. I never know when I am working or where I'm working. I'm lucky if I get a call the day before a shift to let me know what time I'm working and the location. Essentially, I am a floater pharmacist with no end in site to this madness. I've been so frustrated I started looking for a new job.

o

One other question for you and anybody else who would care to comment - why did you sign something with a chain that didn't specify a specific location for you to work in? Is it normal that they won't offer new grads a specific store?

 

[Hels2007]

One other question for you and anybody else who would care to comment - why did you sign something with a chain that didn't specify a specific location for you to work in? Is it normal that they won't offer new grads a specific store?

Some chains may, but most have the newly minted pharmacists float first - more for the pharmacist's benefit than the chain's, as being a midshift floater you always have someone to ask questions if something goes wrong, rather than having to handle everything on your own. Also, the new graduates are hired with the attrition for the next whole year in mind (and the expansion plans, if any) so there simply may not be a permanent position available, and the stores are always assigned in terms of seniority (such as, if you worked for the chain as a student and have years of seniority, you can get a store of your choice among available openings when you graduate). It also depends on the district manager's preference, and the population - a lot of factors go into it. Most things happen for a darn good reason, as most successful businesses stop being successful if there isn't a good reason to do things they do.

 

[genesis09]

One other question for you and anybody else who would care to comment - why did you sign something with a chain that didn't specify a specific location for you to work in? Is it normal that they won't offer new grads a specific store?

The new pharmacists tell me floating is actually a good thing. You get to see a lot of different things. I met a Walgreens Pharmacist who has been floating for over 15 years because that is what he likes to do. It's rare to hear a new grad automatically getting a store. Some chains do place their pharmacists faster. In my area, Target and Dominicks (Safeway) tend to place the fastest while CVS and Walgreens tend to place the slowest.

 

[dr of rx]

you can look at this one of two ways:

1) you realize that your job and employer suk. but you can stick it out and work your balls off for 5 years, make as much as you can, invest, buy/build a house, pay off bills, invest, and invest. put money in the bank while you are young. there will always be other jobs when you're older.

2) you can quit now and absorb the paycut easier. if you jump into higher bills without proper financial planning, you'll be trapped by your own expenses. find a better (yet it may be lower paying) job and enjoy life more. however, when some have bills paid off and a new house, you may be behind them.


I took option #1. Would I do it again? I don't know. What I do know is that I've put myself in a position where I won't have to work crazy overtime to get by. I'll have time for the family, etc. Sure the last 5 years are a blur, but I have alot to show for it.

Ideally you find a mix of 1 and 2...but most of the time the retail sweat shops are where the money is.

I recently left one of the retail devils to join a much slower supermarket. I was lucky enough that since the benefits are so much cheaper, I'll actually take home more than from my previous job.

good luck...its a tough choice

 

[Old Timer]

Here is what I would do,

Follow the advice of Epic as seconded by the cuter ones with one slight change. Pick up a weekend a month somewhere in retail. That will get you anywhere between $9,700.00 and $14,000, depending on rate and length of shifts. You can work this load at your age w/o a problem until you can advance in a hospital setting.

And two more things:

• Where you go to school doesn't mean anything. Nobody makes any decision of any import based on where someone went to school. Nobody chooses a doctor, lawyer, accountant, friend or spouse based on where that person went to school.
• The difference in earnings from an elite or Ivy League university and a standard run of the mill college/university is ZERO over your lifetime.

 

[LunestaNites]

thanks for all the advice everyone. Let me give everyone more information since it seems I didn't give enough. I get paid 52/hr in retail now and the hospital offered me $43, over a year, that is huge, not 23K (I don't know where people got that from-but 20K approximately). I believe if everyone knew the full depth of why I came to this cross road it would make more sense.

As I said I just graduated and I learn so much everyday. There is a lot you don't know as a new grad, workwise and in general. I have been having problems with the lady that does the scheduling for my area. The schedule is never done, sometimes they call me an hour before a shift to let me know they found one, and give me a lot of evening shifts. The scheduling has not been very fair and I've gotten very frustrated. Yesterday I drove 45 minutes to get to a store not even in my district. I spend more time in other districts than my own. This may not seem like a problem for a lot of people but the inconsistency and unstability is overbearing at times. Yeah, the money is great but life is not about that.

I am fearful of the hospital because I really don't have much experience in it. Retail is stressful but it's more chronic treatment as opposed to acute like in the hospital.

Yeah I'm young and I can work my butt off in retail for a year or two, save and pay my loans back fast, but I've seen so many ads that ask for new grads or people with no hospital exp, NO RETAIL Pharmacists. That's insane to me, I dont want to get stuck. And as someone said, retail will always be there.

Maybe I just made my mind up as I was typing this.

 

[Old Timer]

You have an alternate option. A different retail employer who will give you a standard schedule. If you want out of retail all together, go hospital. If it's just your employer, change employers and stay in retail.

 

[Epic]

thanks for all the advice everyone. Let me give everyone more information since it seems I didn't give enough. I get paid 52/hr in retail now and the hospital offered me $43, over a year, that is huge, not 23K (I don't know where people got that from-but 20K approximately). I believe if everyone knew the full depth of why I came to this cross road it would make more sense.

ehhh....you said...

My problem is this. Going to this hospital would mean taking a 23K/year pay cut.

That's actually $18,720 per year. But you will probably make up $5,000 to $10,000 per year on differentials.. you do know what differentials are right?

So after 401K and taxes...aint there going to be much difference..

 

[Epic]

Here is what I would do,

Follow the advice of Epic as seconded by the cuter ones with one slight change.

I really can't help the way I look...

 

[Rumplestiltazepam]

I get paid 52/hr in retail now and the hospital offered me $43, over a year, that is huge, not 23K (I don't know where people got that from-but 20K approximately).

I am just guessing but maybe they got the 23K from your first post where you said "23K pay cut"....call me crazy

 

[pharmacogenomic]

I really can't help the way I look...

I really can't help the gender thing - we are just cuter!

Thank goodness Old Timer hasn't lost his sight yet...

 

[pharmacogenomic]

thanks for all the advice everyone. Let me give everyone more information since it seems I didn't give enough. I get paid 52/hr in retail now and the hospital offered me $43, over a year, that is huge, not 23K (I don't know where people got that from-but 20K approximately). I believe if everyone knew the full depth of why I came to this cross road it would make more sense.

As I said I just graduated and I learn so much everyday. There is a lot you don't know as a new grad, workwise and in general. I have been having problems with the lady that does the scheduling for my area. The schedule is never done, sometimes they call me an hour before a shift to let me know they found one, and give me a lot of evening shifts. The scheduling has not been very fair and I've gotten very frustrated. Yesterday I drove 45 minutes to get to a store not even in my district. I spend more time in other districts than my own. This may not seem like a problem for a lot of people but the inconsistency and unstability is overbearing at times. Yeah, the money is great but life is not about that.

I am fearful of the hospital because I really don't have much experience in it. Retail is stressful but it's more chronic treatment as opposed to acute like in the hospital.

Yeah I'm young and I can work my butt off in retail for a year or two, save and pay my loans back fast, but I've seen so many ads that ask for new grads or people with no hospital exp, NO RETAIL Pharmacists. That's insane to me, I dont want to get stuck. And as someone said, retail will always be there.

Maybe I just made my mind up as I was typing this.

Listen, Lunesta - the person who does the scheduling goes thru some sort of metamorphosis. It gives that person power over lives he/she didn't previously have.

Also - its a huge job & the individual forgets people schedule their lives out months in advance. They are working day to day schedules. This is where I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

The worst schedulers are those in hospitals, IMO. There are weird & absurd "seniorty", "priority" issues which make no sense, but which you have no control over.

Scheduling will always be your hurdle.

But, when you get enough experience & that will take years & years - they wlll find you something you want & will make you happy. They won't want ot lose you.

But, you have to put in your time. New grads will get the worst schedules & will work the most. That is just the way life works. Some are worse about this than others (Kaiser for example), but they all do this to some extent.

Good luck - Be willing to work anywhere, everywhere & learn as much as you can! Keep your resume up to date with every advance you make. Work at getting mentors, be humble & flexible when you can. At the time of your life when you will have more restrictions (when you have a family committment) - it will pay off.

Good luck!

 

[tussionex]

hospital schedulers are no better.
my asst dop could give birth faster than crap out a schedule [ and he's a man! ]

bad schedulers are everywhere! don't let that be your deciding factor!

 

[Hels2007]

bad schedulers are everywhere! don't let that be your deciding factor!

I beg to differ. The only downfall of mine is she will not call back to confirm if she accepts your request - only if she cannot accept it. I only work every other weekend, though.

 

[Tessalon]

Don't be afraid to switch because you are unfamiliar with hospital pharmacy! I am halfway through my residency, and I had only worked at CVS for my intern hours - so when I graduated I was so worried about starting work. But they will train you to do your job - just like every other new pharmacy graduate and new hire. The great thing about working at the hospital is that there is always another pharmacist (in my hospital) you can ask if you don't know something.

As far as leaving retail, you really have to decide if you will enjoy your job - even if your schedule situation improves. I did retail as a student, and now I am a PGY-1 in a 500 bed hospital, and I can't believe how much I've learned in just 6 months. I also can't believe how much I still don't know but I don't know if I will ever outgrow that. Everyone is very understanding if you are a new employee and you need extra time to look things up.

 

[StallionRx]

I couldnt stand that type of work schedule. Not knowing where Im going an hour before a shift? Are you kidding?

Pharmacy is so area specific in terms of job placement. I had my own store before I even graduated (they kept the store a afloat just for me to grad and get licensed). I also have hospital recruiters calling on a weekly basis looking for any leads on other possible pharmacists looking to switch jobs. Most are saying they will match pay, offer way better hours and give ME a grand for the referral.

Have you tried other hospitals in the area or other retail chains? My buddy just got his own store (took about 5 months of floating) with a supermarket chain and couldnt be happier.

You really gotta ask yourself if your driven by the money or the desire to use what you learned in school. When all is said and done I dont think their will be THAT big of a difference in income between community and hospital. Do what makes you happy. It doesnt sound like your happy where you are, time to make some moves.