Changing my Number 1...After telling them they were #1

[bagoslagos]

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Recent events have occurred in my life that have resulted in me having to change who I ranked 1. Heck I can't even rank the program that I thought I was ranking 1 in my top 5 even. I already emailed them a week ago telling them they'd be 1. Since rank lists havent been made yet and nothing is finalized, would it be okay for me to email them and tell them that certain personal obligations have resulted in me having to reconsider.

I don't want to do anything unethical, I also don't want to anger a PD and have myself get blacklisted at a whole bunch of programs. I'm being completely honest, and playing no games. I've told nobody else they're #1 but I can't rank the place I told #1 anymore. How do I fix this without hurting myself? Thank you

 

[bagoslagos]

There is no way to fix it without hurting yourself. Obviously you can be a martyr and tell them they are not your #1 anymore if you value your ethical convictions higher than your match results.

In general, this type of scenario is probably what leads applicants to inform more than one program they are their #1. I too have already informed my #1, but have been having cold feet and now feel my #2 may be the (slightly) better choice.

I think me and you are talking about 2 different things. You're debating between 1 and 2. I legitimately can't rank the program I told was 1 in my top 5 anymore. I have no plans of lying to that program at all. When I said "hurting" I meant do you think it will upset that PD to the point it affects me at other programs? I figured they'd prob rank me low after this or not rank me at all.

 

[scotchtapetest]

Recent events have occurred in my life that have resulted in me having to change who I ranked 1. Heck I can't even rank the program that I thought I was ranking 1 in my top 5 even. I already emailed them a week ago telling them they'd be 1. Since rank lists havent been made yet and nothing is finalized, would it be okay for me to email them and tell them that certain personal obligations have resulted in me having to reconsider.

I don't want to do anything unethical, I also don't want to anger a PD and have myself get blacklisted at a whole bunch of programs. I'm being completely honest, and playing no games. I've told nobody else they're #1 but I can't rank the place I told #1 anymore. How do I fix this without hurting myself? Thank you

I don't know what your circumstances are but here are my $0.02:

What other programs are you talking about? Once you match, you're matched and nobody knows before the match how are you going to rank them (assuming you don't tell them). If you are talking about fellowship, that's many years away and nobody will remember you unless you are going into some really small field.

HOWEVER,

It is unprofessional to tell a program that you are ranking them #1 and not do so for whatever reason (the reason only affects the level of unprofessionalism).

Your desire to be honest with the program is admirable and IMO the right thing to do! If you really have a legitimate reason to not rank this program #1 anymore I would send the PD an email and explain your reason and let him/her know that you won't be able to rank them #1 anymore and that you just wanted to do the right thing. Most PDs understand that s**t happens and in reality they can care less if they get any specific applicant (unless you are Nobel prize winner). BUT you MUST realize that you probably (more than likely) will be ranked lower on their list. On the other hand you will remembered as a very professional person whose word means something. Also, if you are fairly confident that you are going to match to one of the programs that you are ranking higher, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

So, to summarize: If you want to be an honorable person (a good quality for a physician) I would send the PD an email. Otherwise I wouldn't really worry about getting "blacklisted" (again, unless you are applying to some very small field).

 

[bagoslagos]

I don't know what your circumstances are but here are my $0.02:

What other programs are you talking about? Once you match, you're matched and nobody knows before the match how are you going to rank them (assuming you don't tell them). If you are talking about fellowship, that's many years away and nobody will remember you unless you are going into some really small field.

HOWEVER,

It is unprofessional to tell a program that you are ranking them #1 and not do so for whatever reason (the reason only affects the level of unprofessionalism).

Your desire to be honest with the program is admirable and IMO the right thing to do! If you really have a legitimate reason to not rank this program #1 anymore I would send the PD an email and explain your reason and let him/her know that you won't be able to rank them #1 anymore and that you just wanted to do the right thing. Most PDs understand that s**t happens and in reality they can care less if they get any specific applicant (unless you are Nobel prize winner). BUT you MUST realize that you probably (more than likely) will be ranked lower on their list. On the other hand you will remembered as a very professional person whose word means something. Also, if you are fairly confident that you are going to match to one of the programs that you are ranking higher, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

So, to summarize: If you want to be an honorable person (a good quality for a physician) I would send the PD an email. Otherwise I wouldn't really worry about getting "blacklisted" (again, unless you are applying to some very small field).

Thanks. Let me be clear what I mean by blacklisted. I don't want this PD to be upset at me, pick up the phone, and call the other programs he knows to tell them I backed out after stating I was ranking them 1. Yes, I have a legitimate reason to not rank them 1... or 2, 3, 4 and even 5 anymore. This isn't me coming up with a new favorite, I actually can't go there. So my basic point is that I understand they may not rank me either, but do you think it will really anger the PD? I don't think so because I am doing it for family obligations but I was just nervous about it because it's a big deal

 

[scotchtapetest]

Thanks. Let me be clear what I mean by blacklisted. I don't want this PD to be upset at me, pick up the phone, and call the other programs he knows to tell them I backed out after stating I was ranking them 1. Yes, I have a legitimate reason to not rank them 1... or 2, 3, 4 and even 5 anymore. This isn't me coming up with a new favorite, I actually can't go there. So my basic point is that I understand they may not rank me either, but do you think it will really anger the PD? I don't think so because I am doing it for family obligations but I was just nervous about it because it's a big deal

That's assuming that you would be such a valuable addition to their program that your loss would be a huge blow to them. Which I seriously doubt, but I could be wrong.

PDs have better things to do with their time. If anything, after receiving your email, s/he would tell others what an honorable person you are for doing so especially since they have plenty of time to adjust their rank list as needed and it sounds like you have a legitimate resin for doing so.

 

[physicsnerd42]

I also don't see a way out of this that isn't bad. The fact that you're still ranking them doesn't tell me that you "can't go there" so I'm a little confused by that statement. If you're not going to rank them at all then you might as well tell them that they're not your number 1 because you won't match there anyway, no matter what they do their rank list. If you're still ranking them and you drop down far enough on your list and match there, they'll never know the difference. If you don't tell them and they don't go far enough down on their list for you to match they also won't know. If they really want you and rank you "to match" and you don't match there they will know and will consider you to be dishonest unless you tell them now that they're no longer your number 1.

Honestly, for all the threads I see about people sending love letters to their assumed #1 I still can't discern any tangible benefit but I can see very real downsides (as evidenced here). Moral of the story: don't tell your number 1 they're number 1 even if you're "sure".

 

[gutonc]

Thanks. Let me be clear what I mean by blacklisted. I don't want this PD to be upset at me, pick up the phone, and call the other programs he knows to tell them I backed out after stating I was ranking them 1. Yes, I have a legitimate reason to not rank them 1... or 2, 3, 4 and even 5 anymore. This isn't me coming up with a new favorite, I actually can't go there. So my basic point is that I understand they may not rank me either, but do you think it will really anger the PD? I don't think so because I am doing it for family obligations but I was just nervous about it because it's a big deal

So if there's no chance that you can go to that program, no matter what happens in the Match (i.e. you rank it last on your list and wind up matching there and you then violate the match agreement and not go there) then just tell them that something personal came up and you will no longer be able to rank them...period...not just not #1, but not at all. That way they move you off their list, no harm, no foul and you both move on with your lives.

But if you're just going to move them down your list and hope for the best, you're being intellectually (if not actually) dishonest.

 

[bagoslagos]

So if there's no chance that you can go to that program, no matter what happens in the Match (i.e. you rank it last on your list and wind up matching there and you then violate the match agreement and not go there) then just tell them that something personal came up and you will no longer be able to rank them...period...not just not #1, but not at all. That way they move you off their list, no harm, no foul and you both move on with your lives.

But if you're just going to move them down your list and hope for the best, you're being intellectually (if not actually) dishonest.

then I will clearly state to them I won't be able to rank them. Thank you for your help

 

[mlw03]

this is why it's a really bad idea to send the "i love you" email unless you're 100% sure of it. life happens - i get that and am somewhat sympathetic, but you sent a voluntary email to a PD saying they are your top choice, and now you can't even rank them? i think you come out of this looking bad no matter what, but if you don't retract your statement you do risk serious retribution if they rank you to match. maybe you're doing internal med where there are thousands of applicants each cycle, but medicine is shockingly small and i do think you risk harming your fellowship chances in the future by earning a reputation as someone dishonest if you don't retract your statement.

perhaps others will see this and take it as a cautionary tale.

 

[bagoslagos]

yes, you're right I can't. i did send a voluntary email. i know that most people's dilemma is 1 vs. 2. i can't undo my email. i can prevent them from wasting a rank spot on me. i doubt my situation is a common one. it would be terrible if i was telling them "hey sorry i said you were 1, you're actually top 3 now". something came up and rather than wasting their spot, they can put another guy/gal in and go on happily.

 

[bagoslagos]

this is why it's a really bad idea to send the "i love you" email unless you're 100% sure of it. life happens - i get that and am somewhat sympathetic, but you sent a voluntary email to a PD saying they are your top choice, and now you can't even rank them? i think you come out of this looking bad no matter what, but if you don't retract your statement you do risk serious retribution if they rank you to match. maybe you're doing internal med where there are thousands of applicants each cycle, but medicine is shockingly small and i do think you risk harming your fellowship chances in the future by earning a reputation as someone dishonest if you don't retract your statement.

perhaps others will see this and take it as a cautionary tale.

I really wish this whole situation didn't happen. Thanks for everyones honest opinions. I know when I retract my statement I will probably not be ranked by them. I understand that, and accept that completely. I'd rather apologize and let them view me as they seem appropriate, but continue to build their intern class also as appropriate.

You're right, I wish there was a mutual understanding between applicants and programs that we shouldn't talk after the interview except for a simple "Thank You". No I'm not applying to medicine, it's a much smaller field

 

[colbgw02]

It's been awhile, so will somebody remind me...

Do applicants and programs have to finalize their rank-order lists with NRMP by the same deadline? I seem to recall that programs did so later than applicants, in which case there isn't a compelling reason to tell a program anything until the applicant is past the point of no return. But, I might be misremembering.

 

[mlw03]

I think the due dates for the rank lists are the same, or darn close.

if you're entering a smallish field, yeah, have to retract and take your lumps. clearly something happened in your life situation to change things, and in a case like that your best bet is to be honest. long run you'll likely be OK, assuming you have a legit explanation about what's going on. PDs are people too, and being honest shows a certain integrity other candidates may not have.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

To the OP, I think you're seriously overthinking this. Tell the program that your circumstances have changed. They will understand. As you mentioned, you no longer plan to rank this program at all. They are not going to call other PD's to "complain", as there isn't really anything to complain about. Life happens.

..and all rank lists are due at the same time. But, we are certain to get ours in a few days early. We let y'all try to submit at the last minute. Every year, someone posts here on SDN how they "changed their mind" at the last minute, try to change their rank list, and end up with no rank list certified.

 

[Smurfette]

Moving to ERAS...

 

[jcu]

If you divulge your change of heart for whatever reason BEFORE the ROL submission deadline, then no harm done. If I were a PD and you notified me now, I'd read your email, shrug, and just change my list. If you wait until after Feb. 22 that's of course a different story.

 

[Buzz Me]

This is why I would never tell a program they were my #1.

 

[peppy]

I agree that it would be polite and honorable to write them back to let them know. I'd say something like "Unfortunately something happened in my personal life that means I can no longer rank your program, but I did think highly of your program and I am disappointed not to have the opportunity to join you". I doubt anyone would get upset over something like that, so you'd probably still be on good terms with the people there if you run into them at conferences or during fellowship.

That being said, let's keep perspective about this. I don't think it's really THAT big of a thing. The only reason it's bad when people say "You're my number one" when they don't mean it is because it makes them look dishonest. It doesn't actually harm the program to rank you and then slip one more down the list. Nothing was actually "wasted".
If I were a program director, every time I received a "You're my number one" email I'd just be thinking, "okay, whatever" and still rank the applicants according to what I thought of them from the interviews and applications. The only reason to rank according to how the other party ranked you is if you get some kind of ego boost from thinking that you got your "#1 choice" (which, granted, does seem to matter to some). Otherwise it makes a lot more sense for both parties to rank according to who they liked best regardless of how likely they think the other party is to rank them #1.