Charting Outcomes of the Match (2022)

[JoaoMoutinho]

Off-topic: Tech Savvy or Tech Addicted? Older Adults Are Stuck on Screens, Too

If H-index becomes a factor in match, that obviously separates the wheat from the chaff -
Also, some of the journals with high impact factor require publication fees, e.g Nature Communications

Back on topic:
Never say never, but nobody is going to look at H-index for a medical student. It varies too much in relation to the quality of the student.

With H-index, a middle author paper in a high-impact journal earlier in your career weighs far more than a first-author paper in a lower-impact journal shortly before ERAS submission. H-index doesn't care about your role, only the number of citations (which increases with time). The first author paper will do you a lot more good than the middle author paper, and probably requires a lot more effort.

The people who actually care about your research will notice.

At the end of the day, for the uber-competitive subspecialties and ivory tower programs, what they will really care about is that you didn't just go through the motions, but that you actually stand out in some way. Whether that's research, step scores, or something else will vary. You may need to excel in all the ways, not just one.

For the remaining 95% of students, generally not sucking as a medical student is probably fine. Most students get through medical school just fine, and your average student is going to match at an average program in most specialties, which is still a great outcome!

Worrying about things like H-index or how many ways you can double count your abstract at your school poster day really is just silly, and extra needless stress for most students.

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[retroflex]

I’ve never quite understood why research is a de facto requirement for competitive specialties these days. Is it a way to demonstrate commitment to the field? Because I would argue that being president of the student interest group in that specialty demonstrates that as well. And why isn’t commitment to a specific community service endeavor over years weighted as much as research? It just seems that way too much weight is placed on research that usually doesn’t move the field forward at all.

 

[FindersFee5]

We're talking about a handful of uber-competitive specialties. Not only do many people go to med school without research, many match residency and fellowship just fine with little to none. It's only de facto required for the people gunning for surgical subspecialties/derm, or competitive locations or hospitals. SDN definitely over samples from that crowd

Yep! And to give a word of reassurance for competitive specialties, I came into med school with no research and as a relatively average undergrad student and matched to my first choice in plastics with no research year. Knowing you're interested in something competitive just means you're going to need to plan more and earlier.

 

[Hzreio]

umm.. good question. My understanding is this. It really costs almost nothing to start a journal. And the founders and editors of those journals pad their resume with those titles and they basically accept all garbage. As long as PubMed indexes those journals, people will submit garbage in order to claim they are pubmed indexed. The whole process really benefits both parties and therefore you see all the crap being published every second. It's the proliferation of the internet. Before that, the journals had to be physically printed and mailed to subscribers... nowadays it's just like a blog. Well the economics of the journal is that usually the school pays for the publication out of their research budget. I am fine with this arrangement but unfortunately this has spilled out into medical education and residency and fellowship application processes. Some specialties are notoriously EASY to publish... and their journals accept almost anything without major revision.

This is just untrue. Yeah, there are predatory journals that you should avoid, but most journals still care about their stats. If your article is trash and unlikely to garner any attention/contribution from the scientific community, it’s much less likely to be accepted even at open access journals.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I’ve never quite understood why research is a de facto requirement for competitive specialties these days. Is it a way to demonstrate commitment to the field? Because I would argue that being president of the student interest group in that specialty demonstrates that as well. And why isn’t commitment to a specific community service endeavor over years weighted as much as research? It just seems that way too much weight is placed on research that usually doesn’t move the field forward at all.

Because with P/F boards, P/F preclinical grades, no rankings etc. there are fewer and fewer means of differentiation. How else to narrow down 1000 applicants to 500? Sure they could just go based on school rank or charisma but I’m guessing people wouldn’t want that either

 

[efle]

Because with P/F boards, P/F preclinical grades, no rankings etc. there are fewer and fewer means of differentiation. How else to narrow down 1000 applicants to 500? Sure they could just go based on school rank or charisma but I’m guessing people wouldn’t want that either

Sub-I rotations are going to be the key. It's already the case that ~75% of applicants to ortho match either their home hospital or one of their sub-I hospitals. Working with someone for a month seems like a much better way to pick residents than anything in ERAS, especially as everything becomes "Pass" and MSPEs just call everyone excellent.

 

[Browns99]

Sub-I rotations are going to be the key. It's already the case that ~75% of applicants to ortho match either their home hospital or one of their sub-I hospitals. Working with someone for a month seems like a much better way to pick residents than anything in ERAS, especially as everything becomes "Pass" and MSPEs just call everyone excellent.

I agree that Sub-Is offer a huge chance to shine and win over those that are involved in ranking applicants. The other key, especially for the top sought-after residencies, will be those letters of recommendation, can't stress that enough.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Sub-I rotations are going to be the key. It's already the case that ~75% of applicants to ortho match either their home hospital or one of their sub-I hospitals. Working with someone for a month seems like a much better way to pick residents than anything in ERAS, especially as everything becomes "Pass" and MSPEs just call everyone excellent.

I have been saying this for a long time. I would lobby hard for students who were on our service for a month. An affable hard worker is someone I can teach and they don't pi$$ off other attendings, staff, or their classmates. It makes our lives so much easier. One problem child and all you hear is criticism about them from the people I just mentioned for all the years they are there.

 

[efle]

I think research years will also be a way in to a target program, even more so than a good subI showing.

Not only are research expectations climbing, but its a year of networking at that department and getting inside advocacy from your PI, and cherry on top you can do a leisurely Step 2 CK review and test whenever.

I think for fields like plastics and neurosurg it'll be a majority taking research years soon, if it isn't already

 

[Lawpy]

As residencies get more competitive, how do they select from the applicant group? They will just make the criteria different. Itused to be step 1, now it is step 2 score. Before research wasnt required, now it is almost mandatory for some specialties, like plastics, neurosurg, ortho, derm, etc.. Med school used to be GPA and mcat. Now you have to show volunteering and service to others. Research also makes an applicant interesting. The game just keeps changing.

School prestige. That’s the unavoidable conclusion in this overapplication world with P/F Steps and grades

 

[Lawpy]

I think research years will also be a way in to a target program, even more so than a good subI showing.

Not only are research expectations climbing, but its a year of networking at that department and getting inside advocacy from your PI, and cherry on top you can do a leisurely Step 2 CK review and test whenever.

I think for fields like plastics and neurosurg it'll be a majority taking research years soon, if it isn't already

Research years don’t work everywhere though. It just strengthens people going to top schools with massive research and networking resources and endangers everyone else who aren’t so lucky

 

[efle]

Research years don’t work everywhere though. It just strengthens people going to top schools with massive research and networking resources and endangers everyone else who aren’t so lucky

People at non top med schools have access to research years. They aren't that hard to get (yet) - prior to the current environment, folks mostly did research years when they had some deficit in their app to compensate for, or needed to fill a year to reapply after unsuccessful match.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Research year seems like a big risk big reward especially for people starting medical school at 25+. for more traditional applicants, I see less issues with it to be honest. Especially if it doesn’t lead to any tangible results. I know that there is one person at the school I will be attending who took a research year at some prestigious institution, yet only matched prelim medicine. That must be the worst because it really sets you back. I think it also inadvertently benefits students who come from money. I mean who is worried about delaying when they will be able to maintain the same lifestyle that they’re used to anyways?

 

[ProReduction]

Which ones? Asking for a friend

There is a standing joke within the neural engineering and computational neuroscience academic community that "If your paper gets rejected by every legitimate journal then you can always just publish it in a clinical Neurosurgery journal".

 

[deleted1064759]

Is there any hope for a rising M2 interested in surgical subspecialties who just chilled and enjoyed life during the M1 summer instead of grinding out research... Asking for myself

Pretty much everyone I know didn't make much significant progress on their summer projects due to factors outside of their control -- I wouldn't worry too much .

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

There is a standing joke within the neural engineering and computational neuroscience academic community that "If your paper gets rejected by every legitimate journal then you can always just publish it in a clinical Neurosurgery journal".

Exactly lol.

 

[Hzreio]

I think it’s funny that the vibe of this thread is to disparage lower quality publications. What do you exactly, for med students to publish at the quality of a graduate student?

It’s a rhetorical question because doing that is unattainable for every student. However, lower quality pubs are attainable for the vast majority of students, and it’s more a reflection of work ethic than anything. It still takes time and effort to put together a study, do background research, put together a manuscript, get through PI/reviewer comments and get published. More so, it exposes students to the process of scientific inquiry all the way to publication, which is valuable.

So it’s not like a high quantity of research productivity is meaningless. Does it measure an applicant dedication toward a successful/impactful academic career? Maybe not, but so what? Not everyone wants to do the ivory tower of academics. It’s still a measure of hard work and competence to a certain degree.

 

[MDMechEngr]

Research years don’t work everywhere though. It just strengthens people going to top schools with massive research and networking resources and endangers everyone else who aren’t so lucky

You create your own luck. LOL.

 

[efle]

I know a lot of people who play the research game (including entire research years) that hate research and don't plan to ever do any again after training. It's just a means to an end with no real intrinsic value for a lot of people. I guess the value is mostly on the PI's end who benefits from all the cheap premed/med student/trainee labor

 

[Hzreio]

I know a lot of people who play the research game (including entire research years) that hate research and don't plan to ever do any again after training. It's just a means to an end with no real intrinsic value for a lot of people. I guess the value is mostly on the PI's end who benefits from all the cheap premed/med student/trainee labor

PDs and PIs setting up a residency application system that benefits them?

*surprised pikachu face

 

[Ho0v-man]

Some data in these papers. Incredibly few actual authorships in the giant pile of ERAS research entries. Most people are putting dozens of posters/abstracts and re-listing things

Medical Student Research Productivity: Which Variables are Associated with Matching to a Highly Ranked Orthopaedic Residency Program? - PubMed

Our results suggest that higher-tier orthopaedic residency programs match residents with greater research productivity than do lower-tier programs. Having 1 publication was associated with matching into a higher-ranked program but no significant associations were observed beyond the first...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Otolaryngology Match: A Bibliometric Analysis of 222 First-Year Residents - PubMed

NA Laryngoscope, 129:1561-1566, 2019.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Neurosurgery Match: A Bibliometric Analysis of 206 First-Year Residents - PubMed

H-index is a powerful research predictor of matching into neurosurgical research institutions and can be improved by starting research early, targeting high impact journals, and participating in original clinical and laboratory investigations.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I’ve met lots of people who included every PowerPoint they made on a rotation as research or scholarly activity.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I’ve met lots of people who included every PowerPoint they made on a rotation as research or scholarly activity.

There are applications like this every year. Required end of clerkship presentation = Invited Talk. Kills me.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I’ve never quite understood why research is a de facto requirement for competitive specialties these days. Is it a way to demonstrate commitment to the field? Because I would argue that being president of the student interest group in that specialty demonstrates that as well. And why isn’t commitment to a specific community service endeavor over years weighted as much as research? It just seems that way too much weight is placed on research that usually doesn’t move the field forward at all.

I generally agree. But for the specialties you don’t learn about at all in med school, research for the sake of showing interest might not be so bad.

I did a rad onc rotation during my TY. Cool stuff. But I genuinely had no background knowledge to fall back on to understand the day to day. Having done prior research would have actually been helpful because I would have had to learn about rad onc in general just to understand the project.

And when you think about it, the most competitive fields are given essentially not taught in med school and are pretty different from the rest of medicine. So it makes sense that those applicants would have done something. But not to the crazy degree we’re seeing.

Obviously the best course of action would be for med schools to just teach us about these fields, but that would require them to do things.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

There are applications like this every year. Required end of clerkship presentation = Invited Talk. Kills me.

What is the minimum research experience that you would recommend putting on eras? Poster at the regional level and up?

 

[Taddy Mason]

There are applications like this every year. Required end of clerkship presentation = Invited Talk. Kills me.

While it’s not a majority of applicants that do this, I’m still surprised at how prevalent it is - rough estimate would be ~1/15-20 applications I reviewed over the past couple of years. I also wonder to what extent this crap inflates reported number of publications/presentations in Charting the Outcomes. The most egregious are applicants who include TBL/PBL presentations from pre-clinical years in this section. The best though, was an applicant last year who with some artful wording included an oral exam they had to do as part of remediation for a failed course - quality attempt at turning lemons into lemonade. It was genuinely tempting to put the applicant in the invite pile in hopes of getting to interview them.

 

[operaman]

I agree that Sub-Is offer a huge chance to shine and win over those that are involved in ranking applicants. The other key, especially for the top sought-after residencies, will be those letters of recommendation, can't stress that enough.

Hard to overstate this. The letters and phone calls are critical. If you recommend a student strongly and they’re a dud, you have to face your colleagues at every future meeting and they will absolutely give you grief about it. On the flip side, for great students they’ll brag about how awesome they are.

If a department is strongly behind an applicant it opens a lot of doors. The residents we matched who were clearly beloved by their department were all very strong residents. It’s hard to quantify what makes a great letter, but you know it when you see it. Even stronger if it comes from someone know to be a real hard arse.

I think the letters and subsequent phone calls are going to become a bigger part of the post step 1 pf meta. Lots more of “hey bud, we got 6 applicants from your school- which ones should we be sure to interview?” If multiple docs are vouching for a student and saying they want to keep them and train them and are ranking them number one, that goes a long way.

I think the surgical subs at least will do fine without a scored step 1 and I think the same students will rise to the top. In small fields especially, relationships are key.

 

[retroflex]

I generally agree. But for the specialties you don’t learn about at all in med school, research for the sake of showing interest might not be so bad.

I did a rad onc rotation during my TY. Cool stuff. But I genuinely had no background knowledge to fall back on to understand the day to day. Having done prior research would have actually been helpful because I would have had to learn about rad onc in general just to understand the project.

And when you think about it, the most competitive fields are given essentially not taught in med school and are pretty different from the rest of medicine. So it makes sense that those applicants would have done something. But not to the crazy degree we’re seeing.

Obviously the best course of action would be for med schools to just teach us about these fields, but that would require them to do things.

Okay, I could see that. It's a way to show interest and commitment to the field while showing that you have at least basic clinical understanding of the specialty. It could also be as simple as the fact that getting a pub (or poster to a lesser extent) takes time, effort, and persistence. I just wish contributing to your school like leading a student group or volunteering in the community were weighted as heavily. But I think that way because I hated doing research, lol.

 

[Lawpy]

I think it’s funny that the vibe of this thread is to disparage lower quality publications. What do you exactly, for med students to publish at the quality of a graduate student?

It’s a rhetorical question because doing that is unattainable for every student. However, lower quality pubs are attainable for the vast majority of students, and it’s more a reflection of work ethic than anything. It still takes time and effort to put together a study, do background research, put together a manuscript, get through PI/reviewer comments and get published. More so, it exposes students to the process of scientific inquiry all the way to publication, which is valuable.

So it’s not like a high quantity of research productivity is meaningless. Does it measure an applicant dedication toward a successful/impactful academic career? Maybe not, but so what? Not everyone wants to do the ivory tower of academics. It’s still a measure of hard work and competence to a certain degree.

If a med student actually publishes a paper in a journal that went through the peer review process, that deserves much more respect than all the students listing crappy school posters

 

[operaman]

If a med student actually publishes a paper in a journal that went through the peer review process, that deserves much more respect than all the students listing crappy school posters

Amen.

I don’t see the purpose of Med student research being to put out revolutionary papers. The purpose is to learn the process, learn how to move a project from A to Z, to develop your skills in reading and evaluating the literature, and to learn more in depth about your chosen field. That can be accomplished doing some basic chart reviews and case series, or some database studies, or whatever.

At best, maybe student research leads to finding a line of inquiry that can serve as the basis for future grant funding and building an academic research career. For those who don’t want to do research, at least they’ve developed the skills and probably evaluate the literature a bit differently after going through the publication process.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

Amen.

I don’t see the purpose of Med student research being to put out revolutionary papers. The purpose is to learn the process, learn how to move a project from A to Z, to develop your skills in reading and evaluating the literature, and to learn more in depth about your chosen field. That can be accomplished doing some basic chart reviews and case series, or some database studies, or whatever.

At best, maybe student research leads to finding a line of inquiry that can serve as the basis for future grant funding and building an academic research career. For those who don’t want to do research, at least they’ve developed the skills and probably evaluate the literature a bit differently after going through the publication process.

I've given some of my peers practically this same advice. Even if you have no desire to do research, just try it out. Check the box. Learn the process. Produce a result and showcase that you can be a valuable member contributing to an end-goal with other professionals already in the field of interest. If you still don't like research, then at least you can say you've done it and don't have the palate for it. Or it could drastically change one's future goals and projection for their career as a physician.

I worked under a couple of highly revered docs in their respective fields prior to med school. One was a MD/PhD who everyone in their field knows and developed some paradigm-shifting advancements. The other didn't have a PhD, but developed a passion for clinical research and has 100+ quality pubs and some major NIH grants that basically fund their fields of interest that they investigate on the side of their clinical work.

To bring this more back on-topic, the research numbers for some of the ultra-competitive fields is getting insane. Quality should be weighed much more than quantity, and it may very well be by some(or most) PDs, but sadly we don't really have a way of seeing that in the charting outcomes data. If there were a way to parse that out, it could drastically reduce the amount of BS research being cranked out if people could only see that quality wins out over quantity. Oh well, c'est la vie.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I think it’s funny that the vibe of this thread is to disparage lower quality publications. What do you exactly, for med students to publish at the quality of a graduate student?

It’s a rhetorical question because doing that is unattainable for every student. However, lower quality pubs are attainable for the vast majority of students, and it’s more a reflection of work ethic than anything. It still takes time and effort to put together a study, do background research, put together a manuscript, get through PI/reviewer comments and get published. More so, it exposes students to the process of scientific inquiry all the way to publication, which is valuable.

So it’s not like a high quantity of research productivity is meaningless. Does it measure an applicant dedication toward a successful/impactful academic career? Maybe not, but so what? Not everyone wants to do the ivory tower of academics. It’s still a measure of hard work and competence to a certain degree.

I agree. That’s why they should focus on first authorship.. I went through the process twice with mid level journals in ophtho as a first author. They can be quite demanding and require a strong work ethic to push them through the finish line.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Okay, I could see that. It's a way to show interest and commitment to the field while showing that you have at least basic clinical understanding of the specialty. It could also be as simple as the fact that getting a pub (or poster to a lesser extent) takes time, effort, and persistence. I just wish contributing to your school like leading a student group or volunteering in the community were weighted as heavily. But I think that way because I hated doing research, lol.

Some fields may actually value the student group \ community volunteering more than research (e.g., FM, Peds, maybe OB/GYN)

 

[Hzreio]

If a med student actually publishes a paper in a journal that went through the peer review process, that deserves much more respect than all the students listing crappy school posters

I mean, every poster take time to put together. Ideas for poster also don’t pop out of nowhere. You have to think critically to come up with something or at least participate in another pd’s idea. Yes, they’re much more attainable because acceptance is 100% for school posters, but It’s not like every pd out there is head over heels for the guy that presented 10 posters at their school symposium.

Still shows some degree of work ethic imo

 

[jstwannagraduaaate!!!]

Yep! And to give a word of reassurance for competitive specialties, I came into med school with no research and as a relatively average undergrad student and matched to my first choice in plastics with no research year. Knowing you're interested in something competitive just means you're going to need to plan more and earlier.

This exactly, this site is a neurotic f&** fest. Makes it seem as if you don't score above average on anything you're banished off to rural primary care. I know plenty of previous grads from my school who were "mid" that matched into surgical subspecialties, they just sprinkled 2-3 Hs during M3 year (most that did go on included surgery in that H) and started doing research in their subspecialty, but none had an insane amount of output. They then did the max amount of aways that they could do and bam they matched, I go to a mid-low tier school btw

 

[jstwannagraduaaate!!!]

I think we will see Step 2 averages for surgical subspecialties go up to ~265 in the next few years. A 255 is like 70th percentile right now, it's gonna get so much worse with CK acting as the new Step 1 starting this year/next year

A mid-low 240s on step one is around 70th percentile, know plenty of folks who matched into competitive fields with that score

 

[NegativeMargin]

I have been saying this for a long time. I would lobby hard for students who were on our service for a month. An affable hard worker is someone I can teach and they don't pi$$ off other attendings, staff, or their classmates. It makes our lives so much easier. One problem child and all you hear is criticism about them from the people I just mentioned for all the years they are there.

I know this may seem obvious, but I'd appreciate you expanding on this. What makes one a great addition to your service and what makes the other a massive headache in the ways you described? I could think of the obvious, but I'd love to hear your perspective.

I'd like to know how much of it comes from just being an emotionally mature hard worker who understand the process, and how much of it is learned on the job. I can think of many ways someone can piss off their boss without them knowing, just because they didn't know better as an example. How might one avoid these things on the average service?

 

[Browns99]

A mid-low 240s on step one is around 70th percentile, know plenty of folks who matched into competitive fields with that score

A mid-low 240s on step one is around 70th percentile, know plenty of folks who matched into competitive fields with that score

It happens, how often, who knows, I guess you can look at each speciality and see the data. ENT and plastic I think had average step 1 scores of 250 and 251 respectively for those that matched and that shows what it will take to match in those specialities moving forward.

You are right though, there will be those that match competitive specialities with scores in the low/mid 240s, but they likely had strong letters, performed well on their Sub-Is, research and thus made up for the "lower scores" ...they also likely crushed their interview.

 

[Anti-PD1]

These are overwhelmingly abstracts and presentations, and even then I doubt most of those are at major conferences.

I remember reading somewhere on here that average ACTUAL publications for applicants matched to neurosurgery was still less than 1 a couple years ago, though my memory may be a little foggy.

I reviewed applications recently. There are many applicants to neurosurgery with 30+ actual papers, some even 70+. These people often take years off and almost all work with 1 or 2 neurosurgeons or neurosurgery groups that churn out meta-analyses or outcomes research.

Neurosurgery residents and attendings are wary of this and we definitely know how to evaluate the quality of work. Being 4th and 5th author on most of your papers looks bad. Being 1st on most of your handful of papers looks good. A paper in JNS or Neurosurgery or better is excellent. Journal of Clinical Neuroscience not so much. I’d rather you actually moved the needle in care, even for a small group of patients or a rare pathology, than tell me something we all know - obesity increases the chances of readmission after laminectomy, glioblastoma has a poor prognosis, going to a top 5 medical school increases the chances of post residency fellowship training - all worthless garbage in my book. No one has time for garbage.

We definitely know.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I reviewed applications recently. There are many applicants to neurosurgery with 30+ actual papers, some even 70+. These people often take years off and almost all work with 1 or 2 neurosurgeons or neurosurgery groups that churn out meta-analyses or outcomes research.

Neurosurgery residents and attendings are wary of this and we definitely know how to evaluate the quality of work. Being 4th and 5th author on most of your papers looks bad. Being 1st on most of your handful of papers looks good. A paper in JNS or Neurosurgery or better is excellent. Journal of Clinical Neuroscience not so much. I’d rather you actually moved the needle in care, even for a small group of patients or a rare pathology, than tell me something we all know - obesity increases the chances of readmission after laminectomy, glioblastoma has a poor prognosis, going to a top 5 medical school increases the chances of post residency fellowship training - all worthless garbage in my book. No one has time for garbage.

We definitely know.

Yet, neurosurgery is notorious for churning out the garbage.

 

[Anti-PD1]

Yet, neurosurgery is notorious for churning out the garbage.

Trends take time. Took a while to get here, will take a while to get back. And not everyone is similarly minded.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Trends take time. Took a while to get here, will take a while to get back. And not everyone is similarly minded.

Yeah, it’s a total waste of time to dedicate years to publishing garbage in order to match.. this stupid culture needs to change.

 

[efle]

A mid-low 240s on step one is around 70th percentile, know plenty of folks who matched into competitive fields with that score

Yeah that's how averages usually work, if average is 250s there will be a bunch of 240s and 260s too

 

[Lawpy]

Being 4th and 5th author on most of your papers looks bad. Being 1st on most of your handful of papers looks good.

This is strange criteria. I get taking the initiative but churning out 20 first author papers to look good is a bit bizarre

 

[Anti-PD1]

This is strange criteria. I get taking the initiative but churning out 20 first author papers to look good is a bit bizarre

It's not about exact numbers and author positions, it's a feel. You can tell who significantly contributed to their work. My point is, to those who aren't at these publishing hubs or aren't specifically interested in publishing a lot, if you can explain your work well that is what matters. Often it's people who are first author, i.e. initiated and completed a study who can explain their work.

Neurosurgery leadership is becoming aware of this issue:

Increasing author counts in neurosurgical journals from 1980 to 2020 - PubMed

Author counts for peer-reviewed articles in neurosurgical academic journals have increased significantly during the past 4 decades, with large increases in the numbers of articles with more than 10 authors in the past 5 years. A total of 28% of the variation in this increase can be explained by...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The neurosurgery applicant's "arms race": analysis of medical student publication in the Neurosurgery Residency Match - PubMed

The authors found that the temporal trend toward increased total research products over time in neurosurgery applicants was driven mostly by increased nonindexed research (abstracts, presentations, chapters) rather than by increased peer-reviewed publications. While we also identified...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Publication misrepresentation among neurosurgery residency applicants: an increasing problem - PubMed

OBJECT Misrepresentation of scholarly achievements is a recognized phenomenon, well documented in numerous fields, yet the accuracy of reporting remains dependent on the honor principle. Therefore, honest self-reporting is of paramount importance to maintain scientific integrity in neurosurgery...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Medical Student Publications in Neurosurgery: At Which U.S. Academic Institutions Do Medical Students Publish Most? - PubMed

This study is the first to evaluate neurosurgery medical student productivity in North America. By systematizing first authorships, incoming students who desire to pursue neurosurgery can be informed of institutions with student involvement, and departments that use medical student expertise can...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A survey study examining the motivations, concerns, and perspectives of medical students engaging in neurosurgical research - PubMed

Medical students engaging in neurosurgical research are highly motivated students driven by scientific curiosity and pressure to prepare for competitive residency applications. Students experience anxiety due to time constraints in medical curricula and increasing demands for scholarly productivity.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[efle]

It'll be very hard to differentiate what's helping the applicant - showing they can produce research, vs networking/building good rep with the PI or program. I think research years mostly help you match via the latter, tbh. It's not like surgical trainees have much time to do research on the side

 

[operaman]

Yeah that's how averages usually work, if average is 250s there will be a bunch of 240s and 260s too

The charting outcomes data are also frustrating in that they don’t give you the whole picture on any one application. You can see that X number of people matched a competitive specialty with a “low” step score, but you can’t see what else those individual people had going for them.

For ent, there’s a Google sheet from each year where people voluntarily list their stats. Obviously not high quality data, but you can get a sense of how those 240s fare and what else they may have done to compensate.

It should be self evident that if 30-40% of applicants don’t match, you’ll want to be above that percentile in as many domains as possible. The 240s I know who matched, one took a research year and rocked it with 15 publications plus was an all around great guy to work with. Another matched after a prelim year where he absolutely crushed it and endeared himself to all the faculty. And another was also a stellar human being beloved by all with a background so compelling that other applicants would ask me “hey why are all the attendings getting their picture taken with that guy from your school?”

I’m sure others with more normal apps have matched too, but the fact remains that if you’re in the lower percentiles in one area, you should bring the goods in others.

 

[someonerandom]

Yep! And to give a word of reassurance for competitive specialties, I came into med school with no research and as a relatively average undergrad student and matched to my first choice in plastics with no research year. Knowing you're interested in something competitive just means you're going to need to plan more and earlier.

I was almost certain that I was at a disadvantage for competitive specialties because I only have a couple of pubs as an incoming M1. I see so many students who have double digits pubs before med school because their [insert relative here] is the head of [insert specialty here] at a top name hospital. Any chance I can DM you?

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

I was almost certain that I was at a disadvantage for competitive specialties because I only have a couple of pubs as an incoming M1. I see so many students who have double digits pubs before med school because their [insert relative here] is the head of [insert specialty here] at a top name hospital. Any chance I can DM you?

Don't think you need anything prior to medical school. Everything is well in front of you.

 

[Hzreio]

I was almost certain that I was at a disadvantage for competitive specialties because I only have a couple of pubs as an incoming M1. I see so many students who have double digits pubs before med school because their [insert relative here] is the head of [insert specialty here] at a top name hospital. Any chance I can DM you?

Lol you think having double digit pubs before med school is common?

 

[Lawpy]

I see so many students who have double digits pubs before med school because their [insert relative here] is the head of [insert specialty here] at a top name hospital.

This is extremely unusual