Cheating during a Final

[gettheleadout]

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No, but that doesn't mean it's OK to be a complete douche during an exam and scream out to the TA that you see somebody on the phone. If anything, you take it up with the professor in private.

This is what I've been advocating here, not saying that once should have stood up and outed him then and there.

It's entirely possible that a lot of people witnessed it, but individually they all figured that since they had no proof, they shouldn't come forward.

I've been fortunate to not have been in any academic settings where I've witnessed cheating, but if I did see someone cheat (and knew it was, without a doubt, cheating), I'd report it. If I only thought it looked like cheating...well, I'd probably just give them the benefit of the doubt, unless I started witnessing a pattern of behavior.

The bolded is especially important, IMO. It's somewhat like the bystander effect. I agree with the rest of your post as well, though.

 

[bing12]

I would have ignored. GPA's are serious business, especially in college. Also, getting the person in trouble might **** up the person's whole college record, especially if he already has a couple years under his belt. For all you know he might be thousands dollars in dept, working full time, etc.

What you have to understand is the weight of one' college education. Snitching is a lot more hurtful than you might think. It can ruin the chances for future admissions, transfers, professional schools, etc. it can have a long lasting and serious impact on one's education and life.

Embrace sympathy and empathy, and not sadism. It might feel nice to know that you have made the exam more fair by snitching, but in reality you are also taking pleasure in seeing a person hurt, psychologically.

People can get extremely stressed over this sort of stuff. Just read most of the posts in the "premed" section, people going nuts over C's and W's. And well, imagine how being singled out as a cheater might feel. You can't assume it is some fratboy that doesn't care and drinks all day, maybe it is just some "regular" kid trying to get by. So depending on the type of person you can't simply assume their reaction will be "Oh crap, I got caught. Guess I will have to retake the class over." but instead "Oh ****, my life is ****ed."

I mean, some people can take grades pretty seriously, very seriously....I mean, you read stories online about suicidal perfectionists...Yeah...Do you really want to be the trigger to someone's collapse?

Obviously this is not all guaranteed, but I believe it is better to be neutral about this sort of stuff and mind your own business...because honestly, you might not really know what the cheater is going through and especially how he might react to any punishment he might receive.

You realize you just tried to justify cheating. All the consequences you listed are part of the risk of cheating, and are placed as incentives to NOT CHEAT.

 

[MeowMeowCAT]

You realize you just tried to justify cheating. All the consequences you listed are part of the risk of cheating, and are placed as incentives to NOT CHEAT.

Heh, I guess I did and I guess they are. I just assumed we were discussing the snitches' perspective, so I was trying to emphasis that the act of snitching is not really that helpful.

 

[bing12]

Heh, I guess they are and I guess I did. I was trying to emphasis that snitching is not going to help the problem.

I am not saying snitching is good or bad. I just disagree with your reasons to NOT snitch. There is a reason why they consequences are very harsh when it comes to cheating, mainly due to the unfair advantage that cheaters have.

 

[MeowMeowCAT]

I am not saying snitching is good or bad. I just disagree with your reasons to NOT snitch. There is a reason why they consequences are very harsh when it comes to cheating, mainly due to the unfair advantage that cheaters have.

Fair point. 👍

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I am not saying snitching is good or bad. I just disagree with your reasons to NOT snitch. There is a reason why they consequences are very harsh when it comes to cheating, mainly due to the unfair advantage that cheaters have.

Umm.. being a tad bit naive aren't you? Life isn't fair and cheating doesn't go away once you get out of bookland. I don't want to say that cheating is a good thing, but I'm not going to say it's bad either. I'm not going to be so heuristic, but really.. my personal opinion is that cheating is a skill and if you want to use it, well then more power to you.

[Edit] Well.. though if the other persons cheating negatively impacted me.. then I'd launch missles straight at that kid. No mercy.

 

[bing12]

Umm.. being a tad bit naive aren't you? Life isn't fair and cheating doesn't go away once you get out of bookland.

I am stating the reason for the harsh punishment for cheating, not my own opinion on the subject matter. I do agree with you in that life is not fair and cheating does not go away, that does not mean there is not an a force out there trying to correct the issue. Yes it is a skill, but the reward you get in not without the risk of possible punishment.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I am stating the reason for the harsh punishment for cheating, not my own opinion on the subject matter. I do agree with you in that life is not fair and cheating does not go away, that does not mean there is not an a force out there trying to correct the issue.

No not really.. the reason why cheating has a harsh punishment is because of other reasons... more idealistic reasons as opposed to practical reasons.

 

[bing12]

No not really.. the reason why cheating has a harsh punishment is because of other reasons... more idealistic reasons as opposed to practical reasons.

id love to know these reasons.

 

[MeowMeowCAT]

bookland.

I hear it's scary beyond the bookland...Things move fast on the outside. Automobiles are everywhere. The world apparently is in a big damn hurry. Trouble sleepin' at night. Having bad dreams like we're taking exams. Waking up scared. Sometimes it might take a while to remember where we are.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

id love to know these reasons.

Religion & Morality
Cultural values
Double-standard society of today..
Because dead guy's said we should because they wanted {insert desired eternal cesspool after death}
Umm.. because we are conditioned to believe the world is polarized by good and evil...
Because hedonists like to screw with guys like you

It's really more idealistic than practical.

 

[mauberley]

It's really more idealistic than practical.

So discouraging methods to distort and otherwise call into question the validity of results of an assessment intended to gauge mastery of material is more borne of idealism than pragmatism. Got it.

 

[bing12]

Religion & Morality
Cultural values
Double-standard society of today..
Because dead guy's said we should because they desired {Arbitary Eternal cesspool after death)
Umm.. because we are conditioned to believe the world is polarized by good and evil...
Because hedonists like to screw with guys like you

It's really more idealistic than practical.

Those reasons are all secondary in relation to the practical reason of it giving a clear advantage to those who try to advantage of the system.The world is not polarized by good and evil, its mainly Locke's perception on society IMO ( basically evil). If it was just idealistic reasons, then the punishment wouldn't be so harsh.

 

[Monocles]

Don't worry about it. If he continues to cheat then he'll be caught eventually. It's only a matter of time, no need to get involved yourself.

 

[sugarcrash56]

If you're ever going to report a cheater, do it anonymously and make sure nobody sees you.

Personally, I can't STAND people that snitch, and would never be friends with a consistent tattle-tale. But hey that's just me.

 

[saveourpens]

Well sometimes if I don't pick up the phone I stand to lose hundreds of dollars and I've been forced to answer it during exams....point is you don't know why he answered.

 

[gettheleadout]

Well sometimes if I don't pick up the phone I stand to lose hundreds of dollars and I've been forced to answer it during exams....point is you don't know why he answered.

What kind of business are you in?

 

[ReptarBar]

i support cheating. with great risk comes great reward. i wish i had the balls to cheat in a college environment.

 

[iamcool]

I wouldn't report, nor would I care. People who are cheating use it as a last resort because they want to pass the class. Don't worry they are not going to get a higher score you which you have studied all day for.

Besides I have had my friends cheat off of me in many exams. Guess what scores they still ended up getting? Nothing higher than a C.

 

[Kevin Baker]

I told my prof, at the end of the course, and anonymously, how rampant cheating was in his class and how apathetic the TAs were. I believe ratting someone out, in undergrad, is unwarranted as it goes above your call of duty as a student, but there is no harm in making it so those TAs don't get retired as it is their responsibility to proctor the test and not to watch YouTube.

 

[Lunasly]

I would have ignored. GPA's are serious business, especially in college. Also, getting the person in trouble might **** up the person's whole college record, especially if he already has a couple years under his belt. For all you know he might be thousands dollars in dept, working full time, etc.

What you have to understand is the weight of one' college education. Snitching is a lot more hurtful than you might think. It can ruin the chances for future admissions, transfers, professional schools, etc. it can have a long lasting and serious impact on one's education and life.

Embrace sympathy and empathy, and not sadism. It might feel nice to know that you have made the exam more fair by snitching, but in reality you are also taking pleasure in seeing a person hurt, psychologically.

People can get extremely stressed over this sort of stuff. Just read most of the posts in the "premed" section, people going nuts over C's and W's. And well, imagine how being singled out as a cheater might feel. You can't assume it is some fratboy that doesn't care and drinks all day, maybe it is just some "regular" kid trying to get by. So depending on the type of person you can't simply assume their reaction will be "Oh crap, I got caught. Guess I will have to retake the class over." but instead "Oh ****, my life is ****ed."

I mean, some people can take grades pretty seriously, very seriously....I mean, you read stories online about suicidal perfectionists...Yeah...Do you really want to be the trigger to someone's collapse?

Obviously this is not all guaranteed, but I believe it is better to be neutral about this sort of stuff and mind your own business...because honestly, you might not really know what the cheater is going through and especially how he might react to any punishment he might receive.

That is a really great response. Would you still give the same answer at a medical interview? Now that you mention it I think I would, but I would probably also add - as another person said above - that I would send an anonymous e-mail to the professor telling them that there is cheating going on in the class.

 

[Maison]

i support cheating. with great risk comes great reward. i wish i had the balls to cheat in a college environment.

Face it. Cheating is cool. Almost as cool as smoking.

 

[scarshapedstar]

People have committed suicide after being caught cheating. Any academic vigilantes should keep that in mind.

Not saying that makes it right or fair but all the people saying "if you don't turn them in (even though it's not clear they were cheating) then you have cheating on your conscience, too!" aren't thinking things through.

 

[Maison]

People have committed suicide after being caught cheating. Any academic vigilantes should keep that in mind.

Not saying that makes it right or fair but all the people saying "if you don't turn them in (even though it's not clear they were cheating) then you have cheating on your conscience, too!" aren't thinking things through.

Who cares if they commit suicide? You're not responsible for the well being of your classmates.

I told a girl to leave me alone the other day because she was annoying me. What's more is she had been talking to me about suicidal thoughts a month ago. What if she commits suicide? You can't spend your time thinking like that, and blaming yourself if something happens.

 

[scarshapedstar]

What if she commits suicide? You can't spend your time thinking like that, and blaming yourself if something happens.

You do realize that as a doctor, you will be kinda legally obligated to think like that.

 

[Maison]

I'm not legally obligated to think any certain way. Doctors study to treat people, not to care about them. Caring is a nice bonus, though, and makes people feel warm inside.

Don't worry, if I ever succeed in medicine I plan on something that will let me sit in a basement with cadavers. Corpses are easier to get along with than stupid and ungrateful patients.

 

[scarshapedstar]

you got me.

 

[LifeTake2]

I would have ignored. GPA's are serious business, especially in college. Also, getting the person in trouble might **** up the person's whole college record, especially if he already has a couple years under his belt. For all you know he might be thousands dollars in dept, working full time, etc.

BS! If what the OP wrote is correct, the student cheated on a final exam. That is grounds for definately an F, and possibly expulsion at some schools.

And that is the ONLY option that should be available, yes it is going to screw up his college record. Cheating on an exam is not a casual decision, it is a significant lapse of moral judgement and SHOULD impact your future.

I tend to avoid this forum as I'm a good bit older/experienced that many, but I honestly can't believe anyone wanting to be a Dr, can condone blatant cheating on a exam. 👎thumbdown

 

[dbeast]

I'm not legally obligated to think any certain way. Doctors study to treat people, not to care about them. Caring is a nice bonus, though, and makes people feel warm inside.

Don't worry, if I ever succeed in medicine I plan on something that will let me sit in a basement with cadavers. Corpses are easier to get along with than stupid and ungrateful patients.

That first line was very concerning... Then the second line was very relieving. Good luck to you sir!

 

[kansaskid]

I think I would have talked to the professor in their office later. My school was very small and had a very intense honor code, though, so incidences of cheating were completely unheard of but we would have been expected to speak up if we saw something. The Honor Code was a big deal and getting caught was enough of a deterrent to cheating. We even had unsupervised, self scheduled finals! (Not totally self-scheduled, there were two options per day when a student could go in and sit the exam, we were allowed to choose what day and time we wanted. This was one of my favorite things about my college.)

 

[rafflecopter]

To be honest, I'm pretty sick of this pre-med mentality that in order to be a doctor you must be this shining beacon of moral superiority. As a student, your job is to take tests, study, and get good grades. Nowhere in that limited scope does classmate policing or counter-surveillance come in. People who cheat do so because they do not know the material, and they tend to do badly despite their cheating. So, who cares? It doesn't affect YOUR grade even if the class is curved.

If you see someone else cheating, are you a liar by not reporting it? No, you are minding your business and keeping your nose out of issues that do not involve you. If we're talking about traits that doctors "should" have, how about social skills? A person who found it morally obligatory to out a fellow classmate as a cheater comes off as a ethically superior snob who would bring that attitude to their patients.

There ARE cases when cheating affects you, however. And those are some instances I'd recommend doing something about. If someone is talking near you and disrupting your test-taking, its perfectly acceptable to ask the professor to move because you're being disturbed by all the talking going on.

I don't condone cheating and I think its ridiculous that people who are considered adults by the state resort to lying to improve their grades. But its really none of your business what other people do. And if your school has an honor code? It's called plausible deniability. They cannot prove you heard the person talking on the phone, and even if you did, you cannot claim with certainty that the person was trying to cheat. This is not a lie, this is fact. If someone is blatantly cheating directly off your test, you are not covering it properly. There are ways to avoid these situations, so use your heads.

 

[jayzbel2]

I think that if I ever witnessed cheating I would ignore it and move forward. There is no excuse for cheating, I don't care how down and out a person is. They could have say down and studied just like I did. But does it mean I have to concern myself and report it? No. I believe in karma, and I think that a cheater will get what's coming to him/her someday.

 

[circulus vitios]

Bunch of Melvins up in here.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

To be honest, I'm pretty sick of this pre-med mentality that in order to be a doctor you must be this shining beacon of moral superiority. As a student, your job is to take tests, study, and get good grades. Nowhere in that limited scope does classmate policing or counter-surveillance come in. People who cheat do so because they do not know the material, and they tend to do badly despite their cheating. So, who cares? It doesn't affect YOUR grade even if the class is curved.

If you see someone else cheating, are you a liar by not reporting it? No, you are minding your business and keeping your nose out of issues that do not involve you. If we're talking about traits that doctors "should" have, how about social skills? A person who found it morally obligatory to out a fellow classmate as a cheater comes off as a ethically superior snob who would bring that attitude to their patients.

There ARE cases when cheating affects you, however. And those are some instances I'd recommend doing something about. If someone is talking near you and disrupting your test-taking, its perfectly acceptable to ask the professor to move because you're being disturbed by all the talking going on.

I don't condone cheating and I think its ridiculous that people who are considered adults by the state resort to lying to improve their grades. But its really none of your business what other people do. And if your school has an honor code? It's called plausible deniability. They cannot prove you heard the person talking on the phone, and even if you did, you cannot claim with certainty that the person was trying to cheat. This is not a lie, this is fact. If someone is blatantly cheating directly off your test, you are not covering it properly. There are ways to avoid these situations, so use your heads.

/thread

 

[mauberley]

Bunch of Melvins up in here.

Ha. In that case, everyone benefits. Melvin's just an ass.

 

[dbeast]

To be honest, I'm pretty sick of this pre-med mentality that in order to be a doctor you must be this shining beacon of moral superiority. As a student, your job is to take tests, study, and get good grades. Nowhere in that limited scope does classmate policing or counter-surveillance come in. People who cheat do so because they do not know the material, and they tend to do badly despite their cheating. So, who cares? It doesn't affect YOUR grade even if the class is curved.

If you see someone else cheating, are you a liar by not reporting it? No, you are minding your business and keeping your nose out of issues that do not involve you. If we're talking about traits that doctors "should" have, how about social skills? A person who found it morally obligatory to out a fellow classmate as a cheater comes off as a ethically superior snob who would bring that attitude to their patients.

There ARE cases when cheating affects you, however. And those are some instances I'd recommend doing something about. If someone is talking near you and disrupting your test-taking, its perfectly acceptable to ask the professor to move because you're being disturbed by all the talking going on.

I don't condone cheating and I think its ridiculous that people who are considered adults by the state resort to lying to improve their grades. But its really none of your business what other people do. And if your school has an honor code? It's called plausible deniability. They cannot prove you heard the person talking on the phone, and even if you did, you cannot claim with certainty that the person was trying to cheat. This is not a lie, this is fact. If someone is blatantly cheating directly off your test, you are not covering it properly. There are ways to avoid these situations, so use your heads.

👍

As a doctor, will you call the police every time you see a patient with a drug problem? Didn't think so...

 

[mauberley]

👍

As a doctor, will you call the police every time you see a patient with a drug problem? Didn't think so...

You know who kept their mouths shut and didn't do anything? The Germans in Nazi Germany. Cheaters are like Hitler.

(accelerating Godwin's law)

 

[UpperEastSide]

i absolutely love every thread created by once. 😀

 

[Frazier]

Maybe he was talking into his recorder, documenting his life as a pre-med and how hard the test is. Don't be jealous he thought of it first.

winner, winner, chicken dinner!

 

[slatermd]

You know who kept their mouths shut and didn't do anything? The Germans in Nazi Germany. Cheaters are like Hitler.

(accelerating Godwin's law)

WIN

i absolutely love every thread created by once. 😀

out on parole

winner, winner, chicken dinner!

'twas well-played

 

[andrewsmack05]

I had a friend who wasnt caught cheating during any of the tests he took in undergrad. One day, my buddy saw him getting answers by way of his girl friend texting him during the test. Well, I guess you could say karma finally caught up with him and he failed out of medical school his first year.

 

[UpperEastSide]

WIN



out on parole



'twas well-played

ha i like how people i don't even recognize know i was incarcerated. Thanks for the warm WB 👍

 

[Blarry]

Surprised by alot of the answers. Not reporting a cheating says more about youself than the cheaters.

your spelling says a lot about yourself....

 

[rafflecopter]

your spelling says a lot about yourself....

If you plan on calling someone out for spelling or grammar, do yourself a favor and punctuate/capitalize properly.

 

[IlDestriero]

We also had a brutally strict honor code. Cheat=expelled.
It would have been amusing to say, just loud enough to get everyone's attention, "Hey douchebag, take your calls outside, I'm trying to take the f'ing test." However, I tend to be a bit confrontational, and I'm not above kicking someone when they're down. In all seriousness, I would have had to report that violation of the honor code or risk my own expulsion.
A couple friends and I were drinking from flasks during the final of a ridiculously easy, for us, law class. The surrounding students were clearly horrified. A's all around.👍 I should have majored in the humanities. People actually openly complained that the class was too hard.😕

 

[circulus vitios]

We also had a brutally strict honor code. Cheat=expelled.
It would have been amusing to say, just loud enough to get everyone's attention, "Hey douchebag, take your calls outside, I'm trying to take the f'ing test." However, I tend to be a bit confrontational, and I'm not above kicking someone when they're down. In all seriousness, I would have had to report that violation of the honor code or risk my own expulsion.
A couple friends and I were drinking from flasks during the final of a ridiculously easy, for us, law class. The surrounding students were clearly horrified. A's all around.👍 I should have majored in the humanities. People actually openly complained that the class was too hard.😕

My smug sensors are overloading.

 

[Blarry]

o.

 

[IlDestriero]

My smug sensors are overloading.

I didn't view it as much of an accomplishment. Lots of mediocre kids get into good schools. They all seemed to converge on that law class. It was an evening class, so we viewed it as an opportunity to start the night a bit early.🙂 The reality was that the class required a great deal of random memorization, something 2 bio premeds and a hardcore CS/IS guy were pretty experienced with by that time.