Chem+Bio or Chem+Calc freshman year?

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[turayza]

Hello! I will be a freshman in college in the fall.
My current schedule is:

Gen Chem (with lab)
Accelerated Single Var Calc
Writing class
Foreign Language

Many of my pre-med peers are taking Chem and Bio this fall semester. My adviser said that I should take things easy first semester since I'm transitioning from high school to college, and that freshmen tend to take on too many challenging courses all at once and ultimately burn out. She said that it's acceptable for me to take Math instead of Bio this year, but I'm a little worried that I may fall behind. Also, I don't know if I'd want to take Bio and Orgo at the same time. Is Bio+Orgo as bad as people make it out to be? Could anyone provide some insight?

You don't have to worry about "falling behind" as long as you finish the bio, chem, ochem and physics series by the time you take your MCAT (some time in junior year, presumably). The only restriction is that you should take chem before ochem (at least, it was a prereq for my school).
Unless you will be doing a lot of upper division math, I recommend taking calc freshman year before you forget all the calc you learned in high school. Then you'll have it fresh and at your disposal for physics.
I took the core sciences as follows:
FR: chem, calc
SO: bio, ochem
JU: phys, biochem

Bio and ochem are very different materials and practice different types of comprehension/learning. Biology is more facts that you learn and regurgitate whereas ochem is learn and apply/puzzle-solve. You should be capable of taking 2 hard sciences at the same time, regardless of what they are. I would argue that ochem and physics had the most work involved, and ochem was the hardest series for me. (Until I hit pchem...but that's different story.)
Don't worry about what your peers are taking, as long as you end up finishing everything at the same time everyone else does.

 

[ciestar]

I thought bio was easier than gen chem, but you probably took these in high school and know what you're stronger in.

But all of those schedules are doable. Just don't take 16 credits while taking ochem...

 

[deleted407021]

I took general biology, chemistry and calculus simultaneously. It wasn't too difficult (annoying, yes. But not burnout inducing) but I had been duel enrolled for 3 semesters, so I had that exposure to college work. It's up to you, but if you did tack on biology, chemistry would still be the course with the most material (in my experience). I'm assuming you are good at math, so you may not need to worry about calculus. The other gen ed courses shouldn't pose any threat if you are a good student. That means keeping up with the work, going to classes and participating, etc.

Both general chemistry and general biology have labs and you need to be able to work them into your schedule. Some new students are caught off guard in labs because they are required to apply their lecture material and the instructor may test via "lab practicals". Keep that in mind.

I think that by the time you make it to organic chemistry (but be careful...it can be a beast), you will have a grasp on how best to study and what you can handle academically. I encourage you to add biology onto your schedule and if you start having trouble, you can drop the class before the penalty date. In this way you can get a feel of the waters and not risk your academic integrity. Best of luck, mate!

Also @sosxana , disregard @strongcycle. He just joined today, is apparently a troll of some variety and will most likely be banned shortly.

 

[allantois]

It's normal to take Math with Chem your first semester you may then start taking Bio with Chem 2 your second semester if you feel comfortable with Chemistry. I do regret not taking Bio my first semester though because I know I could do it as I had taken AP Biology before but my adviser wouldn't let me take it regardless. If you are not completely confident about your academic ability in these 2 subjects, it's better to be safe than sorry.

PS. I took Bio with Ochem with 17 credits total it was fine

 

[ciestar]

It's normal to take Math with Chem your first semester you may then start taking Bio with Chem 2 your second semester if you feel comfortable with Chemistry. I do regret not taking Bio my first semester though because I know I could do it as I had take AP Biology before, but if you are not completely confident about your academic ability in these 2 subjects, it's better to be safe than sorry.

PS. I took Bio with Ochem with 17 credits total it was fine

n=1, but many students do in fact struggle with ochem. But OP knows their strengths and weaknesses best.

I also took ochem with 4 upper level biology courses, not general biology.

 

[FluffyPolishUnicorn]

i took
I Bio 1;
II Bio 2; Phys 1
III Chem 1; Phys 2; Microbiology
IV Chem 2; Orgo 1; Pharmacology
summer : Calc 1 and Pscyh classes
V Orgo 2; Calc 2 (this fall) and 3 x Anthro classes
VI - 5 x Anthro class + psych

I;II its semester order - I absolutely had no problems; also form taking chem with orgo i needed permission from Chair of department; but bc they are both totally different in content I didnt even need to explain to the chair why, he just signed after asking for my GPA.
and thats it ladies and gentelman - graduating with BA in Anthro in only 3 years this upcoming spring. I did some bs classes during summer and winter semester to ease up on regular semesters, and recommending it to everyone 🙂

 

[allantois]

I think that Orgo is challenging because it's nothing that you've ever encountered before. However, there is relevant material that it builds on from Chem 2. There are no calculations involved unlike in General Chemistry it's just very conceptual. I had a different experience as my pre-med Gen Chem was a joke compared to AP one. You will eventually be taking Bio courses along with Chemistry courses.

Also, other than for financial reasons there is no advantage to graduating in 3 years unless you can start med school right after that time.

 

[FluffyPolishUnicorn]

For me Orgo wasnt a challage I actually enjoyed that class, but fellow classmates who struggled often said that its hard for them, because then just cant visualize the reactions, and why some happen and some dont, like the inversion, bulkiness factors etc.
it seemed to me that the reason why some people hated the class for the reason why i loved it!

 

[turayza]

Thank you for all of the insight! 🙂 I guess I'm a little more reassured about taking Calc this year instead of Bio.
What exactly makes Orgo challenging? Is it because there's so much information or is it the way that it is taught? I've heard about how difficult Orgo is, and that AP Bio is a joke compared to Bio for pre-meds...

Just wondering, is it true that people majoring in biology should take bio and chem at the same time?

Ochem has a lot of mechanisms to memorize, but that is all manageable-- it is the application that is difficult. For example, on exams they might provide compound A and compound E, and you have to pull from your memory bank of mechanisms what reactants to add to turn A into B, C, and D to finally convert the compound into E.
There is also a unit on spectroscopy, so you will learn how to look at two charts with lines on it and understand what compound it is (number of carbons, other groups, branching/cyclization).
I found biology to be pretty easy conceptually (memorize, regurgitate).

Not sure about the bio and chem at the same time--do you have any reasoning for this? At my school it is standard to take Chem first year and Bio sophomore year.

 

[Aerus]

I took Gen Chem, Upper level bio, Physics+lab, and a writing course all at once and it wasn't bad at all. You, yourself, will want to understand your limit. Why not try it for the first few weeks or so and drop it before the W deadline if you don't think you can carry it all the way through?

 

[johnston9234]

Interesting opinions here in this thread. I always thought that Calc 1-3 was MUCH more work than into bio and intro chem.

 

[Aerus]

Interesting opinions here in this thread. I always thought that Calc 1-3 was MUCH more work than into bio and intro chem.

I took Calc 3 as my first math course at my university and it was pretty easy if you stay on top of your work, since you already know a lot of the concepts from Calc 1-2. Obviously, we are all different and our experiences may or may not apply to you the same way.

 

[ciestar]

I love calculus and didn't struggle with that course at all.

I've never had a harder time than I did the first time I took ochem.
My teacher stressed MO theory more than anything else and once I fell behind, there was no coming back. I also did terrible on the first exam (class average was around a 58 I think? And I did worse) so my confidence was shot and I had a panic attack during the second exam and there went that. Lol

 

[Time Table]

What the hell? Suck it up and join my freshman year:

Bio, Chem, Calc, Writing, Intro college course, Course on understanding majors/careers (17 credits right there)

 

[ciestar]

My freshman year was:
Physiology + lab
First year seminar (what a joke)
Nutrition course
Intro Psych
Intro human development and family studies

Ahh, the pre-reqs for nursing courses.
My first biology/premed schedule didn't happen until junior year but that consisted of:
Intro Bio
Gen Chem II + lab
Gen Chem I lab
Speech
Calc II
English Comp II

 

[johnston9234]

I wasn't implying that Calc 1-3 was hard. I said it was a lot of work. More work than the intro sciences I think.

 

[allantois]

I don't know how I got out of Calc 1 with an A but it surely took a lot more from me than Biology. But it's all relative to what your strengths are. If you did not do so well in Chemistry in high school, then take Gen Chem without Bio.

My Ochem professor spent like 10 mins on MO theory. I just think each OChem professor has a topic they like to spend a lot of time on 😀 (for me it was IR and NMR).

But it's a great advise to NEVER fall behind on any chemistry concepts you are learning (seek help right away!) and also don't ever panic about your performance just always do your absolute best. It never helps to be stressed out and running like a headless chicken (see quite a few pre-meds who are like that).

 

[raiderette]

At my school it is recommended to take chem and math first, then add bio as a sophomore. I am sitting on a 3.98 because I learned how to study as a freshman. I don't know if I would still be premed if I had done all three classes at once. The people that did are either no longer pursuing medicine or are sitting on lower GPAs.

 

[ciestar]

Bio/premed majors at my school's first semester recommended schedules include gen bio, gen chem I + lab, calc I, first year seminar, and English comp I.

 

[ciestar]

I don't know how I got out of Calc 1 with an A but it surely took a lot more from me than Biology. But it's all relative to what your strengths are. If you did not do so well in Chemistry in high school, then take Gen Chem without Bio.

My Ochem professor spent like 10 mins on MO theory. I just think each OChem professor has a topic they like to spend a lot of time on 😀 (for me it was IR and NMR).

But it's a great advise to NEVER fall behind on any chemistry concepts you are learning (seek help right away!) and also don't ever panic about your performance just always do your absolute best. It never helps to be stressed out and running like a headless chicken (see quite a few pre-meds who are like that).

Gen chem II was the most work out that sequence of classes I took that semester (excluding labs of course). I'm just naturally good at math so I guess it helps.

When I took ochem I the second time he didn't really bother to talk about MO theory at all. But the first time he spent a solid week on it and incorporated it into basically everything he could.

Yeah, that experience didn't help. I just couldn't get past my anxiety about that class and the immense pressure I put on myself. I had a D going into the late drop period so I dropped it for damage control. Got a 3.71 that semester, so not bad for being completely demoralized by that class.

 

[Eppur Si Muove]

OP do yourself a favor and stick with math and chem this year. It will be more manageable and you will be fine if you don't fall behind