Chicago Job Market?

[MSteve86]

---

Members don't see this ad.

How is the job market for psych in the Chicagoland area? My hope is to live there in the future and attend a residency program there, as well. Based on what I've heard, I was thinking either U of C or Loyola (personal reasons for both). Any issues with finding a PP job afterwards from either program? And how is the job market overall? Thanks!

 

[Shikima]

careermd.com for somewhat of an idea. But when you're nearing the end of your residency, contacting physician recruitment at hospitals is your best bet.

 

[Merovinge]

How is the job market for psych in the Chicagoland area? My hope is to live there in the future and attend a residency program there, as well. Based on what I've heard, I was thinking either U of C or Loyola (personal reasons for both). Any issues with finding a PP job afterwards from either program? And how is the job market overall? Thanks!

If you want to work for some organization in a largely PP (that is non-academic) healthcare organization there is plenty of opportunity. Those jobs offer a fair amount of stability albeit with less maximum income. If you are fine making 200-230kish than certainly its an easily place to settle down.

There is also a fair amount of solo-small group PP that are recruiting all time. Setups where they take 30% or whatnot to make things a lot less of a hassle. Those are also extremely easy to setup.

 

[MSteve86]

If you want to work for some organization in a largely PP (that is non-academic) healthcare organization there is plenty of opportunity. Those jobs offer a fair amount of stability albeit with less maximum income. If you are fine making 200-230kish than certainly its an easily place to settle down.

There is also a fair amount of solo-small group PP that are recruiting all time. Setups where they take 30% or whatnot to make things a lot less of a hassle. Those are also extremely easy to setup.

PP is what I'm looking at. 230K is fine with me (right now), so long as work/life balance reflects the lower income. How about academic, and does residency program make a difference?

 

[MSteve86]

bump

 

[Merovinge]

PP is what I'm looking at. 230K is fine with me (right now), so long as work/life balance reflects the lower income. How about academic, and does residency program make a difference?

Academic will almost always put you in the bottom 10% of pay unless you have insane research or are a program chair. This is made up somewhat by having to never take primary call (residents) and supervision clinics where you don't have to write notes. I think standard academic pay is roughly 160k in Chicago. Residency program matters somewhat for the more affluent patient population, certainly if people are paying cash they want to see shiny diplomas from med school/residency hanging on your wall.

 

[MSteve86]

Academic will almost always put you in the bottom 10% of pay unless you have insane research or are a program chair. This is made up somewhat by having to never take primary call (residents) and supervision clinics where you don't have to write notes. I think standard academic pay is roughly 160k in Chicago. Residency program matters somewhat for the more affluent patient population, certainly if people are paying cash they want to see shiny diplomas from med school/residency hanging on your wall.

So, I'm guessing in terms of name brand to the lay public, it'll be Northwestern/U of C/Rush? Though, cash only doesn't seem to be prominent in the Chicagoland area.

 

[Merovinge]

So, I'm guessing in terms of name brand to the lay public, it'll be Northwestern/U of C/Rush? Though, cash only doesn't seem to be prominent in the Chicagoland area.

NW/UIC are in a different tier than U of C and Rush due to their long histories with the analytic institute (and frankly significantly better psychotherapy training to this day). Probably then U of C and Rush before Loyola and Lutheran General although I can see Loyola before Rush (which is a pretty psychopharm/high clinical pt encounter based residency).

 

[MSteve86]

NW/UIC are in a different tier than U of C and Rush due to their long histories with the analytic institute (and frankly significantly better psychotherapy training to this day). Probably then U of C and Rush before Loyola and Lutheran General although I can see Loyola before Rush (which is a pretty psychopharm/high clinical pt encounter based residency).

Good points, but the lay public doesn't know these things. My question pertained to your earlier point about "shiny" names to attract cash only patients (a small market in Chicago, regardless). In that case, I would guess it's going to be NW/UoC/Rush.

You clearly know way more than I do, though, so I'll go with your UIC/NW>UoC>Loyola>Rush>Advocate.

 

[Merovinge]

Good points, but the lay public doesn't know these things. My question pertained to your earlier point about "shiny" names to attract cash only patients (a small market in Chicago, regardless). In that case, I would guess it's going to be NW/UoC/Rush.

You clearly know way more than I do, though, so I'll go with your UIC/NW>UoC>Loyola>Rush>Advocate.

Id put NW > UIC from University name alone and its also a better program currently. Uof C's psychiatry department has been a tornado for awhile although its possibly on the upswing now, the name is not great for people who know about it; but obviously its a top 15 University in America so its a a plus minus kind of situation. Its a big step down after that IMO for someone looking to do cash but its still doable if you have good credentials, good mentors, good involvement in the institute or some other specialty therapy training.

 

[MSteve86]

Id put NW > UIC from University name alone and its also a better program currently. Uof C's psychiatry department has been a tornado for awhile although its possibly on the upswing now, the name is not great for people who know about it; but obviously its a top 15 University in America so its a a plus minus kind of situation. Its a big step down after that IMO for someone looking to do cash but its still doable if you have good credentials, good mentors, good involvement in the institute or some other specialty therapy training.

So, for cash, it's NW>UIC>UoC>>>>>everything else. How is UoC's rep for finding PP jobs? I've heard that the department has grown over the past year with multiple new faculty hirings and they are looking to hire more this year, as well, particularly for their new inpatient units, and psych pod in the new UoC ED. I was worried about their rep because I had heard about their issues 10 years ago, but it seems like things have stabilized, and leadership has improved. Trying to decide between UoC and Loyola based on future job prospects.

 

[splik]

lol who would choose to go to loyola?!!

 

[MSteve86]

lol who would choose to go to loyola?!!

Personal reasons. Trying to decide if job prospects in the Chicagoland area change based on which residency program I choose. Right now, I would like to do PP (maybe cash), though I may want to do a Child fellowship, I may want to do academics. Who knows? I really also liked UofC's department, also for personal reasons, and also because they seem to be determined to push forward and expand.

 

[splik]

what personal reasons would have to choose loyola over UoC? that doesn't make sense.

 

[MSteve86]

what personal reasons would have to choose loyola over UoC? that doesn't make sense.

Fiance works there. I think it would be cool to work in the same place as her. Loyola is a ways out from everything too.

Just wondering how residency program affects job prospects in Chicago. According to Merovinge, cash is best with NW/UIC/UofC, but I'm wondering what about PP/faculty(academia). How is UofC vs Loyola for those things?

 

[MSteve86]

bump

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

Since you specifically mentioned Chicagoland, there are a lot of jobs available in the 'burbs (though the city was pretty saturated last time I checked). Also, while none of the Chicago programs are at the "academic powerhouse" stage yet (in the Midwest Michigan, Wash U, and Cincinnati are better) Northwestern has very high quality residents from top medical schools. They also have a number of reputable faculty (the chair John Czernansky, Kathy Wisner who is the authority on psych/obgyn issues, Dan Angres in addiction). I would put UofC actually closer to and even approaching UIC (quality of residents is getting better; have some big name hires, e.g. Jon Grant, main issue is no inpt unit in main hospital)

 

[MSteve86]

Since you specifically mentioned Chicagoland, there are a lot of jobs available in the 'burbs (though the city was pretty saturated last time I checked). Also, while none of the Chicago programs are at the "academic powerhouse" stage yet (in the Midwest Michigan, Wash U, and Cincinnati are better) Northwestern has very high quality residents from top medical schools. They also have a number of reputable faculty (the chair John Czernansky, Kathy Wisner who is the authority on psych/obgyn issues, Dan Angres in addiction). I would put UofC actually closer to and even approaching UIC (quality of residents is getting better; have some big name hires, e.g. Jon Grant, main issue is no inpt unit in main hospital)

Yeah, I'm certainly leaning towards UofC out of the non-NW Chicago psych programs. Their residents seem like a supportive and intellectual group, they're hiring some great new faculty, and I've really enjoyed the discussions I've had with the PD.

 

[MSteve86]

..

 

[SoulinNeed]

If you want to work for some organization in a largely PP (that is non-academic) healthcare organization there is plenty of opportunity. Those jobs offer a fair amount of stability albeit with less maximum income. If you are fine making 200-230kish than certainly its an easily place to settle down.

There is also a fair amount of solo-small group PP that are recruiting all time. Setups where they take 30% or whatnot to make things a lot less of a hassle. Those are also extremely easy to setup.

Since you specifically mentioned Chicagoland, there are a lot of jobs available in the 'burbs (though the city was pretty saturated last time I checked). Also, while none of the Chicago programs are at the "academic powerhouse" stage yet (in the Midwest Michigan, Wash U, and Cincinnati are better) Northwestern has very high quality residents from top medical schools. They also have a number of reputable faculty (the chair John Czernansky, Kathy Wisner who is the authority on psych/obgyn issues, Dan Angres in addiction). I would put UofC actually closer to and even approaching UIC (quality of residents is getting better; have some big name hires, e.g. Jon Grant, main issue is no inpt unit in main hospital)

what personal reasons would have to choose loyola over UoC? that doesn't make sense.

How do you guys feel U of C is vs Rush in terms of job prospects, education, and life style? Thanks!

 

[Merovinge]

How do you guys feel U of C is vs Rush in terms of job prospects, education, and life style? Thanks!

Covered before on here but briefly these programs are basically opposite each other in the Chicago area (although both have fascinating histories - Rush manufacturing the diagnosis of DID and UofC with guiding their psych program into a glacier).

Rush is a partially private practice based model place, low resident numbers per class, high volume clinical care (with lots of call), less focus on education and more about billing and realities of modern medicine. Their facilities are fairly nice, Gero unit which is either a big plus or big minus for most people (calls for falls at night on call), lots of consults encouraged on the floor to drum up more billing. They are not really a national name anymore (orthopedics notwithstanding) but pretty well known in the Chicagoland area.

UofC is obviously the name of a top 10 US university, that can never be taken away from them despite all their historic problems in psychiatry. They have tried their best to keep things Ivory Tower, heavy focus on didactics, they see less patients and do less clinical care. I hear psychotherapy training is pretty good. I think I heard a Rush grad comparing their caseload to a UofC and it was nearly 2:1 in total visits at the end of residency. Lots of driving to different locations in the city, location in Hyde Park is generally a bit of a pain for younger residents but there are great transport options from the loop. They have recently been rebuilding and medical students seem to have very favorable impressions talking to the folks there now. I suspect their resident class will get more and more competitive with years to come when it comes to STEP scores, grades, and publications if for nothing other than people's love to go to name brand locations.

 

[SoulinNeed]

Covered before on here but briefly these programs are basically opposite each other in the Chicago area (although both have fascinating histories - Rush manufacturing the diagnosis of DID and UofC with guiding their psych program into a glacier).

Rush is a partially private practice based model place, low resident numbers per class, high volume clinical care (with lots of call), less focus on education and more about billing and realities of modern medicine. Their facilities are fairly nice, Gero unit which is either a big plus or big minus for most people (calls for falls at night on call), lots of consults encouraged on the floor to drum up more billing. They are not really a national name anymore (orthopedics notwithstanding) but pretty well known in the Chicagoland area.

UofC is obviously the name of a top 10 US university, that can never be taken away from them despite all their historic problems in psychiatry. They have tried their best to keep things Ivory Tower, heavy focus on didactics, they see less patients and do less clinical care. I hear psychotherapy training is pretty good. I think I heard a Rush grad comparing their caseload to a UofC and it was nearly 2:1 in total visits at the end of residency. Lots of driving to different locations in the city, location in Hyde Park is generally a bit of a pain for younger residents but there are great transport options from the loop. They have recently been rebuilding and medical students seem to have very favorable impressions talking to the folks there now. I suspect their resident class will get more and more competitive with years to come when it comes to STEP scores, grades, and publications if for nothing other than people's love to go to name brand locations.

Rush is an anomaly to me. I attended a major Psych conference last year and NW, UIC, UofC had faculty there, and Loyola sent a resident. Rush didn't send anyone. It really surprised me. I've visited the program. Their facilities are great, all under one roof, but the med students I met there didn't have a high opinion of the program, but they couldn't give me a real reason why. I just heard, "it's OK", "it's alright." It doesn't seem like any Rush med graduates have actually gone there in a while, either. Not sure why, but I shouldn't read too much into it.

UofC has certainly had its problems in the past, but they do appear to be rebuilding. Med students I've spoken to have commented on the strong didactics there, and the good lifestyle. I'm glad to hear they're on an upswing. The leadership there deserves to be commended for the work they've done, and a strong name like UofC deserves a strong psych program.

 

[abcdior]

It doesn't seem like any Rush med graduates have actually gone there in a while, either.

.

lol?

absolutely false, what compels someone to come onto the internet and just spew false info carelessly?

 

[SoulinNeed]

lol?

absolutely false, what compels someone to come onto the internet and just spew false info carelessly?

If it's not true, then I sincerely apologize. It was something a current Rush med student told me. Like I said, though, I don't read too much into that. People go places for a plethora of reasons, regardless of their home institution.

 

[Merovinge]

If it's not true, then I sincerely apologize. It was something a current Rush med student told me. Like I said, though, I don't read too much into that. People go places for a plethora of reasons, regardless of their home institution.

I actually would read into that if it's a trend across several years (most decent to good med schools send multiple of their class into their psych residency), of course it not being true hurts your ability to do so. Asking current medical students about residency programs is a lot like asking pigeons about NYC real estate. Sure they have some approximation about what's going on but they are missing the lion's share of the nitty gritty, which is what you would want to know as a prospective resident.

 

[WingedOx]

I actually would read into that if it's a trend across several years (most decent to good med schools send multiple of their class into their psych residency), of course it not being true hurts your ability to do so. Asking current medical students about residency programs is a lot like asking pigeons about NYC real estate. Sure they have some approximation about what's going on but they are missing the lion's share of the nitty gritty, which is what you would want to know as a prospective resident.

Or simply, What I considered important in a residency is WAY different than what I consider important in a residency now that I've gone through it and am now a practicing physician.