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[mistafab]

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Reading this thread makes me want to sign up for a boxing class.

Bob and weave!

 

[Merovinge]

Reading this thread makes me want to sign up for a boxing class.

Bob and weave!

I know this is a joke but for anyone wanting to actually learn self defense I would recommend Jujitsu or Krav Maga. Most of the other martial arts are pretty impractical in real world situations, although my black belt in Tae Kwon Do was certainly a good use of time during childhood, it does not leave me prepared at all for the type of above situations discussed.

 

[Stagg737]

I know this is a joke but for anyone wanting to actually learn self defense I would recommend Jujitsu or Krav Maga. Most of the other martial arts are pretty impractical in real world situations, although my black belt in Tae Kwon Do was certainly a good use of time during childhood, it does not leave me prepared at all for the type of above situations discussed.

Yea, I'm not going to claim to be a self-defense expert, but I've practiced several combat sports/martial arts and was/am high level for 2 of them. Striking sports like Karate, Muay Thai, boxing, or TKD can be useful to initially keep distance but aren't great for street fights or situations where you want to neutralize someone without seriously harming them. Muay Thai maybe a bit of an exception since clinches are part of their basics, but that's still just to create control for striking. Sports that involve more throws and grappling/locks are generally going to be a lot more useful for most self-defense situations, so would agree that training in something like judo/bjj or Krav Maga would be most useful.

Obviously escape would be the best option, but if that really weren't possible submitting someone as opposed to striking them is almost always going to be the better choice. There's a reason so many of the best MMA fighters are grapplers.

 

[aim-agm]

I know this is a joke but for anyone wanting to actually learn self defense I would recommend Jujitsu or Krav Maga. Most of the other martial arts are pretty impractical in real world situations, although my black belt in Tae Kwon Do was certainly a good use of time during childhood, it does not leave me prepared at all for the type of above situations discussed.

They also have the advantage of being more able to defend yourself without significantly harming the patient, which has significant ethical and legal benefits.

 

[ObsequiousAplomb]

Dude...

What? You think it's a good idea to put yourself in situations you don't belong and catch a stray blow?

 

[ObsequiousAplomb]

Respectfully, my experience in these same settings has been different. See my above post.

For the record, I definitely think some people are bad at interacting with mentally ill patients and provoke the patients (though not usually in the legal/moral sense as it relates to self-defense, more just that they are bad at deescalation and begin to argue with the patient when they should be disengaging). Many of those people should be fired as they are not suitable for working with these patients. That doesn’t really, in my view, change the fact that they are entitled to defend their life by whatever means are reasonably necessary given the situation.

Respectfully, you can understand why those jobs struggle to fill. They aren't safe. They shouldn't be that way. People who accept unsafe jobs ... well, they already violated the easiest rule: avoid situations with potential for violence. If your jobs really are that way, then you should quit them, like almost everyone else who is in a situation with a job that is unsafe.

Would you tell someone who has already lost three fingers in a packing plant that it's a good idea for them to resume that work while taking Zyprexa? Or would you appropriately suggest that they find a job that will allow them to keep their remaining fingers?

 

[Candidate2017]

The contrast here is so dramatic. One side saying they are going to wale on anybody posing a risk and the other that they are going to literally run away to "avoid liability." This is exactly why the training and associated job requirements are needed for psychiatrists and anybody else working on an inpatient unit.

The government's genius solution to active shooters ("run, hide, fight") is quite useful. I've adapted it as, "hide, run, fight" for all things related to medicine, especially when asked to take uncompensated call.

 

[aim-agm]

Respectfully, you can understand why those jobs struggle to fill. They aren't safe. They shouldn't be that way. People who accept unsafe jobs ... well, they already violated the easiest rule: avoid situations with potential for violence. If your jobs really are that way, then you should quit them, like almost everyone else who is in a situation with a job that is unsafe.

Would you tell someone who has already lost three fingers in a packing plant that it's a good idea for them to resume that work while taking Zyprexa? Or would you appropriately suggest that they find a job that will allow them to keep their remaining fingers?

At my residency we had to work at a psych ED that was...not designed well - e.g. rooms were L-shaped with beds along each wall, so frequent situations with a patient between us and the door (and with our back to them to boot). They also flatly refused to use metal detectors on patients (as did the main ED we worked at). It wasn't advertised on the interview day that we would be working in less than safe conditions, and you can't exactly just quit residency.

 

[ObsequiousAplomb]

At my residency we had to work at a psych ED that was...not designed well - e.g. rooms were L-shaped with beds along each wall, so frequent situations with a patient between us and the door (and with our back to them to boot). They also flatly refused to use metal detectors on patients (as did the main ED we worked at). It wasn't advertised on the interview day that we would be working in less than safe conditions, and you can't exactly just quit residency.

That's true. I was in similar situations in residency. That's what made me switch from wanting to be a state hospital or CPEP psychiatrist to private practice only. Those learning experiences are thankfully relatively short and serve as good lessons on where to and where not to work later.

 

[sloop]

Respectfully, you can understand why those jobs struggle to fill. They aren't safe. They shouldn't be that way. People who accept unsafe jobs ... well, they already violated the easiest rule: avoid situations with potential for violence. If your jobs really are that way, then you should quit them, like almost everyone else who is in a situation with a job that is unsafe.

Would you tell someone who has already lost three fingers in a packing plant that it's a good idea for them to resume that work while taking Zyprexa? Or would you appropriately suggest that they find a job that will allow them to keep their remaining fingers?

I’m done arguing with you guys. If you don’t agree with the basic principle that unless you literally start a fight, you have a right to defend yourself using proportional force, we have some fundamental first-principles level disagreements that will not be sorted out here.

 

[sloop]

At my residency we had to work at a psych ED that was...not designed well - e.g. rooms were L-shaped with beds along each wall, so frequent situations with a patient between us and the door (and with our back to them to boot). They also flatly refused to use metal detectors on patients (as did the main ED we worked at). It wasn't advertised on the interview day that we would be working in less than safe conditions, and you can't exactly just quit residency.

Yeah, I trained at a very well-known institution. You would be shocked at the stuff that happened there. Similar metal detector problems in the ED. Patients were often only found to have weapons after they were sent back to the locked psych ED. Patients with guns in bags in clinic. A murder involving a weapon in a patient room on a (non-psychiatry) floor. I once had a pretty labile day hospital patient show up to the unit with a pocket knife, which I noticed on rounds and had to notify security.

Unfortunately, my experience has been that you can’t even count on some of the best medical centers to fully protect you.