Chicago PMR Programs

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350Z

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I was wondering if some of you SNDers could discuss the Chicago area programs. I am familiar with RIC (did a rotation and loved it) so I was wondering more about: Rush, Loyola, and Schwab. Details on strengths as well as weaknesses regarding these particular programs would be great. Would there be differences in the job market after completing a residency at either of these programs vs. a top-name place like RIC? Anyone who is training or interviewed at these programs, please comment!


I am moving to Chicago this summer (graduating in May from a US med school). I am a first-time applicant in the 2007 Match for PM&R.

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Don't for get about Marianjoy Rehabiliation Hospital Program in Wheaton, IL.

I'll let the residents at those programs inform you.

In the meantime, if you have not done so already, you can comb through the interview experiences...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=225835
 
Schwab is a good program, U of C affiliation, but they work hard there from what i've heard. Not sure about Loyola or Rusk, I mean Rush.
 
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Not sure much about marianjoy, except what I have heard that if you are interested in inpatient rehab in general they have a good experience with their free-standing rehab hospital. Bad thing is that it is in Wheaton, which is 45 min-1 hr outside of chicago. Maybe the residents there can chime in...

Schwab, with thier loose affiliation with U of C, really is just that Schwab rehab hospital. They go to Uof C to do consults and their interventional exposure, otherwise 90% time is spent at Schwab Hospital. Really not the best location in the city. Was warned that I shouldn't go out late at night without security to my car, because of the neighborhood. They do have a great thing with their program director, Dr. Gittler. One resident who I am know stated that she is the best thing about their program and if this person had to do it over they would re-think it because of how hard PGY-2 year was. You will spend most of your time doing inpatient rotations at Schwab, even during your senior year. I think they go to RIC for their EMG experience though.

Loyola has pretty good program that is well balanced and you get alot of outpatient and procedure experiences. Other that, not too much sure, hopefully a loyola resident can chime in.

Rush has a well-balanced program with 60% outpatient and 40% inpatient experience. After PGY-2 year most rotations are outpatient, MSK, interventional, sports medicine, pain, etc... During your senior year, there is no inpatient focus, unless you wish to do so, just getting yourself ready for fellowship or job (which I think of the 4 residents there, 3 are doing fellowship and 1 is getting a job). Anyways there is a resident here on the boards from Rush that may be able to answer more questions.
 
Thanks for the replies so far. Im a big city person so Im not really interested in the Marianjoy Rehabiliation Hospital Program (but feel free to comment if you want).
 
350Z said:
Thanks for the replies so far. Im a big city person so Im not really interested in the Marianjoy Rehabiliation Hospital Program (but feel free to comment if you want).

I know this is a charged question, but would you say that Rush is a better program than Loyola? It just seems as though people have a lot to say about Rush where as Loyola is usually referred to as a "decent" program.
 
Great question!

It is indeed difficult to get the full scoop on all the Chicago programs. I remember well my confusion when looking 2 years ago. Not until interviews at RIC, Schwab, Marion Joy and Loyola could I really make my choice clearly and I must say what impressed me most with Loyola was there breadth of experiences and the satisfaction that the residents I met exuded. We Loyola residents think of this program as a "hidden gem".

We gain a great variety of outpatient and inpatient experience here and work with some excellent attendings. If you enjoy MSK and pain, I can especially recommend the program. Dr. Steiner, though a somewhat subdued personality, goes out her way to make this the strongest program possible. As to how Loyola compares to Rush, I can't precisely say but let me lay out some similarities/differences.

First, you should know, Loyola, Rush & Marionjoy share some rotations and academic experiences. Rush & Marionjoy rotate through our SCI unit and our Loyola Consults rotation. Loyola does 2 months TBI, 1 month peds PM&R and 1 month pain @ Marionjoy. I'm not sure if anyone rotates at Rush besides Rush (at least Loyola doesn't). L, R and MJ get along quite well and get to know each other across our 3-4 years of residency.

Rush & Marion Joy residents attend some academic experiences with us including:

1) an excellent 2 month prosthetics/orthotics series (~8 lectures x 2 hours) with Scheck & Siress ... once plus for Loyola, we can attend every year if so desired. I'm not sure if MJ and Rush can do this. This is VERY helpful for boards.

2) A monthly (give or take a few months) "brown bag" lunch/lecture given at Loyola by a luminary in the PM&R field.

A big Loyola plus: a 2 month weekly anatomy/dissection experience. Each week the PGY2's dissect a portion of a cadaver (UE, LE, back, brachial plexus ...). That Thursday, A PGY3 or 4 gives a 1 hour lecture on the anatomy of that portion followed for a more intensive rehab focused lecture by a MSK fellow from a local RIC affiliated fellowship, followed by PGY2 led discussion of the cadaver. This is crucial in developing a strong understanding of the anatomical underpinnings of all the interventional experiences we get here, and huge benefit I feel.

I'm thrilled with my experiences thus far ... I'm a PGY2 and have done 4 months of inpatient (out of 8 total, 5 at Loyola, 3 at Hines VA), SCI, outpatient MSK (with many injections), EMG/consults (a split 2 month block). PGY3 will be mostly outpatient experiences except for 2 month inpatient @ Loyola and 2 months of consults @ Loyola. PGY4 is all outpatient except for one month as senior supervisor of Loyola inpatient.

We have some great faculty at both facilities, highlights including Dr. Lucero at SCI (an amazingly erudite lady, and great patient and resident advocate), & Dr. Chaudhuri at Loyola inpatient (relatively new, but very knowledegeable and infatiguably interested in resident education).

Dr. Gnatz, currently AAPM&R president heads up Loyola's Rehab unit. An important recent addition is Dr. Ahn (from Mayo and a subsequent EMG fellowship there) who is adding even more EMG experiences to our plate. Also, Dr. Charuk is crucial in our reputation for strong interventional cred and with him we do sundry fluoroscopic (and non) epidurals, blocks etc in a setting where the resident need not compete with a fellow for procedures. Many residents coming out of the program have gone straight out into doing injections w/o a fellowship in light of this.

Approximately 1/3 residents go into fellowships (MSK, Pain, ...), the rest generally go to outpatient settings, at least in the last few years.

Hope this ramble helps! Good luck!
 
kelvination said:
Great question!

It is indeed difficult to get the full scoop on all the Chicago programs. I remember well my confusion when looking 2 years ago. Not until interviews at RIC, Schwab, Marion Joy and Loyola could I really make my choice clearly and I must say what impressed me most with Loyola was there breadth of experiences and the satisfaction that the residents I met exuded. We Loyola residents think of this program as a "hidden gem".

We gain a great variety of outpatient and inpatient experience here and work with some excellent attendings. If you enjoy MSK and pain, I can especially recommend the program. Dr. Steiner, though a somewhat subdued personality, goes out her way to make this the strongest program possible. As to how Loyola compares to Rush, I can't precisely say but let me lay out some similarities/differences.

First, you should know, Loyola, Rush & Marionjoy share some rotations and academic experiences. Rush & Marionjoy rotate through our SCI unit and our Loyola Consults rotation. Loyola does 2 months TBI, 1 month peds PM&R and 1 month pain @ Marionjoy. I'm not sure if anyone rotates at Rush besides Rush (at least Loyola doesn't). L, R and MJ get along quite well and get to know each other across our 3-4 years of residency.

Rush & Marion Joy residents attend some academic experiences with us including:

1) an excellent 2 month prosthetics/orthotics series (~8 lectures x 2 hours) with Scheck & Siress ... once plus for Loyola, we can attend every year if so desired. I'm not sure if MJ and Rush can do this. This is VERY helpful for boards.

2) A monthly (give or take a few months) "brown bag" lunch/lecture given at Loyola by a luminary in the PM&R field.

A big Loyola plus: a 2 month weekly anatomy/dissection experience. Each week the PGY2's dissect a portion of a cadaver (UE, LE, back, brachial plexus ...). That Thursday, A PGY3 or 4 gives a 1 hour lecture on the anatomy of that portion followed for a more intensive rehab focused lecture by a MSK fellow from a local RIC affiliated fellowship, followed by PGY2 led discussion of the cadaver. This is crucial in developing a strong understanding of the anatomical underpinnings of all the interventional experiences we get here, and huge benefit I feel.

I'm thrilled with my experiences thus far ... I'm a PGY2 and have done 4 months of inpatient (out of 8 total, 5 at Loyola, 3 at Hines VA), SCI, outpatient MSK (with many injections), EMG/consults (a split 2 month block). PGY3 will be mostly outpatient experiences except for 2 month inpatient @ Loyola and 2 months of consults @ Loyola. PGY4 is all outpatient except for one month as senior supervisor of Loyola inpatient.

We have some great faculty at both facilities, highlights including Dr. Lucero at SCI (an amazingly erudite lady, and great patient and resident advocate), & Dr. Chaudhuri at Loyola inpatient (relatively new, but very knowledegeable and infatiguably interested in resident education).

Dr. Gnatz, currently AAPM&R president heads up Loyola's Rehab unit. An important recent addition is Dr. Ahn (from Mayo and a subsequent EMG fellowship there) who is adding even more EMG experiences to our plate. Also, Dr. Charuk is crucial in our reputation for strong interventional cred and with him we do sundry fluoroscopic (and non) epidurals, blocks etc in a setting where the resident need not compete with a fellow for procedures. Many residents coming out of the program have gone straight out into doing injections w/o a fellowship in light of this.

Approximately 1/3 residents go into fellowships (MSK, Pain, ...), the rest generally go to outpatient settings, at least in the last few years.

Hope this ramble helps! Good luck!


great insight! Wish there were more raw and candid reviews like yours about each program. We interested students welcome more!
 
jonnylingo said:
great insight! Wish there were more raw and candid reviews like yours about each program. We interested students welcome more!

My pleasure!

And please, if anyone has further questions about Loyola, I'm happy to answer them. I also encourage residents from the other Chicago programs to chime in on their programs. Chicago is a fine city with several excellent PM&R programs. As the field grows more competitive, I'm sure interest in these "other four" will continue to develop.
 
To anyone asking about Rush.

Feel free to PM me and I will e-mail you the power point presentation about the program I presented to residency candidates this past interview season.

It should answer most if not all of your questions in detail.
 
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