Chiroppdy program in Ontario will now graduate "podiatrists"

[jesse14]

What does you think of this???

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/May2009/04/c8099.html

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[deleted100801]

"This name
change will reduce this confusion and aid the public in recognizing who
qualified foot specialists are in Canada."

I think this will only confuse the public and other health professionals further if and when podiatrists (with DPMs) attain licensing privileges in Ontario (most likely in the near future). Chiropodists provide a valuable service but their level of training is no where near that of a podiatrist who has gone through undergraduate, podiatric medical, residency and +/- fellowship training.

 

[jesse14]

"This name
change will reduce this confusion and aid the public in recognizing who
qualified foot specialists are in Canada."

I think this will only confuse the public and other health professionals further if and when podiatrists (with DPMs) attain licensing privileges in Ontario (most likely in the near future). Chiropodists provide a valuable service but their level of training is no where near that of a podiatrist who has gone through undergraduate, podiatric medical, residency and +/- fellowship training.

Its odd because new Michener grads will be called podiatrists by doing a 3 year degree after completing an undergrad degree. No residency or fellowship needs to be done as of yet... that's a slap in the face to american pods in my opinion

 

[PodunkUDPM]

Its odd because new Michener grads will be called podiatrists by doing a 3 year degree after completing an undergrad degree. No residency or fellowship needs to be done as of yet... that's a slap in the face to american pods in my opinion

I hope they won't be doing surgeries.

 

[cool_vkb]

Its odd because new Michener grads will be called podiatrists by doing a 3 year degree after completing an undergrad degree. No residency or fellowship needs to be done as of yet... that's a slap in the face to american pods in my opinion

are you serious. How does a foreign country's action relating to its internal professional regulation considered a slap to american pods? they are regulating a profession inside their country. Canadian pod schools are not even governed or accredited by US Podiatry school accrediting agency. The only accredited schools are 9 (including western) and all of them are within US boundaires.

a change in Canadian medical school can definetly be an issue with americans. LCME is a common accredtion body that ACCREDITS CANADIAN AND US MED SCHOOLS and they have to follow same set of rules and regulations. but Canadian podiatry school or podiatry is no way related to USA. they are more related to great britian and europe. because i know that certain canadian states give reciprocity to UK and aussie Podiatrists.

Most Canadian States follows the british/european style of Podiatry where Podiatrists are Bachelor degree holders. Even the Podiatrist Australia, newzealand,South Africa, Singapore,Spain, France, UK, Brazil, etc etc have a bachelors degree. In order to be a surgeon in those countries you do a MSc degree in Podiatry. infact they have MSc in sports med, Biomechanics , Surgery, Diabetic care,etc.

 

[G0dFather]

are you serious. How does a foreign country's action relating to its internal professional regulation considered a slap to american pods? they are regulating a profession inside their country. Canadian pod schools are not even governed or accredited by US Podiatry school accrediting agency. The only accredited schools are 8 and they are within US boundaires.

LCME WHICH ACCREDITS CANADIAN AND US MED SCHOOLS and they have to follow same set of rules and regulations. So a change in Canadian medical school can definetly be an issue with americans. but Canadian podiatry school or podiatry is no way related to USA. they are more related to great britian and europe. because i know that certain canadian states give reciprocity to UK and aussie Podiatrists.

Most Canadian States follows the british/european style of Podiatry where Podiatrists are Bachelor degree holders. Even the Podiatrist Australia, newzealand,South Africa, Singapore,Spain, France, UK, Brazil, etc etc have a bachelors degree. In order to be a surgeon in those countries you do a MSc degree in Podiatry. infact they have MSc in sports med, Biomechanics , Surgery, Diabetic care,etc.

Wow all those .. is there any more that give out pod bachelor degrees?

 

[cool_vkb]

Wow all those .. is there any more that give out pod bachelor degrees?

Except USA (i think may be one college in canada) every country where podiatry is established grants bachelors degree. Its a 3yr degree and they are not surgeons. they can do soft tissue stuff but nothing seriously invasive. for surgery they have to do MSc and then some clinical stuff,etc.

US Podiatrists spend 7yrs working hard but then we also enjoy the most relaxed scope of practice as well as good salary🙂 .

 

[deleted100801]

There is actually a podiatry school that grants a DPM in Quebec (a "province") and the students attain some experience in clinic at NYCPM for a number of weeks. The program in Toronto is different from the one in Quebec.

Podiatrists with DPMs (USA-trained) were at one point able to become licensed in Ontario. That was until the cap was imposed in 1993. Now legislative changes are in the works and the cap should be removed in the near future with an improvement to the scope of practice (any DPM that was in Ontario prior to 1993 was able to remain and practice). The hope is to improve upon the podiatry model currently being used in Alberta, which is quite comparable to some of the best states in the USA.

Confusion will arise when Ontario opens its doors to DPMs while "D.Pod.M"s are around.

 

[cool_vkb]

There is actually a podiatry school that grants a DPM in Quebec (a "province") and the students attain some experience in clinic at NYCPM for a number of weeks. The program in Toronto is different from the one in Quebec.

Podiatrists with DPMs (USA-trained) were at one point able to become licensed in Ontario. That was until the cap was imposed in 1993. Now legislative changes are in the works and the cap should be removed in the near future with an improvement to the scope of practice (any DPM that was in Ontario prior to 1993 was able to remain and practice). The hope is to improve upon the podiatry model currently being used in Alberta, which is quite comparable to some of the best states in the USA.
Confusion will arise when Ontario opens its doors to DPMs while "D.Pod.M"s are around.

This will be definetly a great step in Canadian podiatry. but Alberta's scope is no way comparable to best states in USA. Its definetly the most relaxed and best in canada but it could be compared to NY or KY or Indiana at its best. Best states in US are Flordia, Georgia,Newmexico, etc etc where we have scope till anterior tuberosity of tibia and soft tissue till hip.

This Best scope states are what they are on paper. As seniors and attendings always say in the forum " what you can do or cant do is actually decided by your hospital priveledges. So you might be in Florida and still be doing forefoot if you dont have the proper priveledges🙁"

 

[PMSIII]

This is actually part of the agreement with the US-trained pods in Ontario. The OPMA (ontario podiatric medical association) and the college of chiropody have submitted a formal proposal to the minister of health to implement the U.S. model of podiatric medicine and surgery scope in the province. This includes hospital previliges, Foot, Ankle and soft tissue of the leg. These changes, if all goes well, can potentially take place in late 2010 or early 2011. In the grand-scheme of things, yes there will be confusion with chiropodists (non-surgical) using the "podiatrist" title, but then again what difference is this from the current state here in the U.S. when the same title is shared with DPMs who have 3 years of surgical training and those with no formal post-graduate training. In my mind, the push for the province to implement an American scope is a very positive direction for the profession and it has been long overdue. The chiropody program will only improve with the presence of US-trained podiatrists in the area. Point is US-trained DPMs returning to the province will immensly improve the quality of the foot/ankle care and improve the quality of the current chiropody school on academic level - who knows, perhaps even encourage a formal CPME accredation and possibly an opportunity for an Ontario-based residency program in the future?

 

[smartman716]

This is actually part of the agreement with the US-trained pods in Ontario. The OPMA (ontario podiatric medical association) and the college of chiropody have submitted a formal proposal to the minister of health to implement the U.S. model of podiatric medicine and surgery scope in the province. This includes hospital previliges, Foot, Ankle and soft tissue of the leg. These changes, if all goes well, can potentially take place in late 2010 or early 2011. In the grand-scheme of things, yes there will be confusion with chiropodists (non-surgical) using the "podiatrist" title, but then again what difference is this from the current state here in the U.S. when the same title is shared with DPMs who have 3 years of surgical training and those with no formal post-graduate training. In my mind, the push for the province to implement an American scope is a very positive direction for the profession and it has been long overdue. The chiropody program will only improve with the presence of US-trained podiatrists in the area. Point is US-trained DPMs returning to the province will immensly improve the quality of the foot/ankle care and improve the quality of the current chiropody school on academic level - who knows, perhaps even encourage a formal CPME accredation and possibly an opportunity for an Ontario-based residency program in the future?

Good points

 

[OntarioDPM]

The Michener Institute Chiropody program's name has been changed back to Chiropody from "Podiatric Medicine" and accordingly the academic diploma title has reverted back to its most recent title, "Advanced Graduate Diploma of Health Sciences (Chiropody)" as of June 2010.

"Podiatric", a derivative of the word "Podiatrist", and "Medicine" are protected titles in Ontario.

See: www.michener.ca

Furthermore, just to clarify on an earlier post. The Michener Institute chiropodist graduates do not receive a degree. It is a diploma program. Mind you - they call it an "Advanced Graduate Diploma of Health Sciences (Chiropody)". By the way, to add to the confusion - these graduates abbreviate the diploma to the acronym "D.Ch." and they get away with it. Don't ask.

 

[347932]

Canada is strife with issues surrounding "Podiatry", scope of practice, ability to prescribe antibiotics and narcs, political issues (a la Ontario "capping" podiatry entrants for who knows what reason you can imagine), hospital privileging, public views, surgical scope, insurance reimbursement (or lack thereof), and many other minute details that those of us in the US don't have to deal with.

There are very few multi year surgically trained podiatrists in Canada, and to get Canadians up to par by training them in the USA can be an immigration nightmare. It can be done, but takes dedication. Lots of it.

All of these things are doable for sure, but it requires some very talented and dedicated Canadian Podiatrist to make it happen. It will take years of work to get the status to what we enjoy in the USA. There is a slow progression in that direction, but politically it is being met with much resistance. Again, doable, but it will take years. This is why so many of us that trained in the USA didn't go back.

 

[347932]

Point is US-trained DPMs returning to the province will immensly improve the quality of the foot/ankle care and improve the quality of the current chiropody school on academic level - who knows, perhaps even encourage a formal CPME accredation and possibly an opportunity for an Ontario-based residency program in the future?

What's the incentive?

 

[darazon]

Canada is strife with issues surrounding "Podiatry", scope of practice, ability to prescribe antibiotics and narcs, political issues (a la Ontario "capping" podiatry entrants for who knows what reason you can imagine), hospital privileging, public views, surgical scope, insurance reimbursement (or lack thereof), and many other minute details that those of us in the US don't have to deal with.

There are very few multi year surgically trained podiatrists in Canada, and to get Canadians up to par by training them in the USA can be an immigration nightmare. It can be done, but takes dedication. Lots of it.

All of these things are doable for sure, but it requires some very talented and dedicated Canadian Podiatrist to make it happen. It will take years of work to get the status to what we enjoy in the USA. There is a slow progression in that direction, but politically it is being met with much resistance. Again, doable, but it will take years. This is why so many of us that trained in the USA didn't go back.

So where do we start? I would love to see this happen, but I honestly don't know what can be done.

This is what is keeping me from returning to Alberta. I can stay here and enjoy a great scope of practice and makes some great money, or I can go home and only clip toenails and over-prescribe orthotics the rest of my career (which is what a lot of the pods I shadowed did) and hope the government will include podiatry in covered services.

 

[347932]

So where do we start? I would love to see this happen, but I honestly don't know what can be done.

This is what is keeping me from returning to Alberta. I can stay here and enjoy a great scope of practice and makes some great money, or I can go home and only clip toenails and over-prescribe orthotics the rest of my career (which is what a lot of the pods I shadowed did) and hope the government will include podiatry in covered services.

I hear you 100%. I thought I wanted to be "that guy" who would return to Canada and bust the profession wide open. I even started the process and was faced with such political unrest at what I was about to try to do, I gave up. A good friend is a PhD in Epidemiology and she was helping me gather data both in Canada and the USA...etc. Finally, I decided to be selfish and didn't want to be the martyr. I think about it a lot to tell you the truth BUT, one person can't do it alone. "Strength in numbers" as they say, and what is really needed is practitioners who have been there done that in the USA to return with good training and practice experience under their belt who are really willing to FIGHT. My strength in that matter failed me. Especially after being offered a teaching position at the school in Trois Rivieres and taking a hard look at the curriculum there. I didn't feel, at the time that Canada was ready for the changes necessary to really elevate our profession there.

Alberta is actually a pretty good province for Podiatry. I know a group up there who does quite well and makes a good living by making orthotics and doing minor procedures in their office surgery suite (Simple bunions, neuromas, hammertoes). That is of course, if you can stand the arctic tundra 😀.