Chiropractor = Physiotherapist?

[jakeislove]

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really?
Are you really being serious here because I can't tell.

License plate probably reads "N8" 🙂

 

[drjohndc]

Yes truthseeker.

 

[cdmguy]

Of course. Rebuild the discs in the spine. If you don't you'll be a lot shorter when you get older!

A common chiropractic myth taught in their schools is that vertebral misalignments occur first which trigger disk degeneration and ultimately fusion. They use this myth to justify xraying asymptomatic patients and using the images to scare them into lifetime care under the premise that manipulation restores mobility and stops the cycle. It's all hogwash. Patients may feel looser under care but they become dependent on weekly adjustments and end up with the same progression regardless. After a decade or two of care the DC just tells the patient that they should have been adjusted from birth! They waited too long.

 

[jjjDPT]

But DDD in the thoracic spine can cause inhibited nerve impulses to the heart. An adjustment helps along with nutrition to rebuild the discs. Osteopaths know this well.

I'm sorry Dr. John Doctor of Chiropractic Medicine Doctor DC, but are you the disc fairy?

 

[drjohndc]

Discs do not get rebuilt. I can buy re-hydrated (to a certain extent) but rebuilt is not going to happen.

Isn't there an old joke about Chiropractors needing to use doctor twice?

Keep reading you'll see.

 

[jakeislove]

Keep reading you'll see.

No thank you.

I've heard the spiel before.

 

[drjohndc]

I'm sorry Dr. John Doctor of Chiropractic Medicine Doctor DC, but are you the disc fairy?

No. The patient needs collagen and glucosamine and the chondroitin sulfate. Make sure they're caffeine is limited because it will interfere with mineral absorption. There's a lot more to it but that's another time perhaps. (if you guys want I'll give you a presentation on how to heal back pain. I'd charge a nominal fee)

 

[cdmguy]

Discs do not get rebuilt. I can buy re-hydrated (to a certain extent) but rebuilt is not going to happen.

Pure speculation and since manipulation has no effect on ligament contractures it's unlikely. McKenzie technique and intermittent lordotic traction of kyphotic curves makes much more sense from a biomechanical point of view.

http://pettibonsystem.com/instituteresearcharticle/intermittent-cervical-traction-radiculopathy

 

[jakeislove]

No. The patient needs collagen and glucosamine and the chondroitin sulfate. Make sure they're caffeine is limited because it will interfere with mineral absorption. There's a lot more to it but that's another time perhaps. (if you guys want I'll give you a presentation on how to heal back pain. I'd charge a nominal fee)

Glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate?

What year is this? 1997?

 

[jjjDPT]

Still not sure if this is a joke...

 

[Fiveoboy11]

Discs do not get rebuilt. I can buy re-hydrated (to a certain extent) but rebuilt is not going to happen.

Isn't there an old joke about Chiropractors needing to use doctor twice?

Chiropractors can rebuild and rehydrate the discs and heal all cardiac pathology simply by adjustment of the spine and nutritional supplements and inversion tables (physiotherapy). I thought everyone knew this.

 

[PTMattI]

you forgot ear infections

 

[Fiveoboy11]

Pure speculation and since manipulation has no effect on ligament contractures it's unlikely. McKenzie technique and intermittent lordotic traction of kyphotic curves makes much more sense from a biomechanical point of view.

http://pettibonsystem.com/instituteresearcharticle/intermittent-cervical-traction-radiculopathy

DDD coincides with shortened disc height, and therefore stenosis? People with stenosis often compensate to some flexion or kyphosis of the lumar spine? Sustained extension is not recommended minus for essential ADL's (in this case relatively speaking it would be standing)? I don't know why you would simultaneosly want to traction and increase lordosis in this case. Is there another way to traction plus lordosis besides in the prone position? Also, traction is only indicated for radiculopathy that does't centralize with directional preference exercise, it's not indicated for DDD or axial back pain or hydration or lumbar radic that centralizes with directional preference exercise. IMO.

 

[jakeislove]

you forgot ear infections

And cooties!

 

[Fiveoboy11]

you forgot ear infections

Hey we'd be here all day if we listed all the indications for chiropractic

 

[Fiveoboy11]

No. The patient needs collagen and glucosamine and the chondroitin sulfate. Make sure they're caffeine is limited because it will interfere with mineral absorption. There's a lot more to it but that's another time perhaps. (if you guys want I'll give you a presentation on how to heal back pain. I'd charge a nominal fee)

Yeah LBP is homogenous like milk is.

 

[drjohndc]

Chiropractors can rebuild and rehydrate the discs and heal all cardiac pathology simply by adjustment of the spine and nutritional supplements and inversion tables (physiotherapy). I thought everyone knew this.

Chiropractors cannot heal cardiac pathology. The thoracic adjustment just stops the flutters for a short while.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

Chiropractors cannot heal cardiac pathology. The thoracic adjustment just stops the flutters for a short while.

I'll let 'em know at my CPR recert that for Vfib we should start considering chiropractic, forget the AED and rush the ER. And aren't many people with arrythmias old and on anticoagulants? I would think that manipulation for an elderly person on anticoags for an arrythmia is not recommened, especially "to stop the flutters for a short while."

 

[jakeislove]

Hey we'd be here all day if we listed all the indications for chiropractic

It was adjustments that drove the snakes out of Ireland!

True story. 🙂

 

[Fiveoboy11]

Pure speculation and since manipulation has no effect on ligament contractures it's unlikely. McKenzie technique and intermittent lordotic traction of kyphotic curves makes much more sense from a biomechanical point of view.

http://pettibonsystem.com/instituteresearcharticle/intermittent-cervical-traction-radiculopathy

My bad with the other response as I just saw you were commenting on cervical radic. I would say a couple things though. I'm guessing you're talkin about reversal of the lordosis of the C/S as it relates to radic? Is there a correlation? Can you isolate traction to specific segments? Normally C/S traction has an uptilt ~ 15 degrees so wouldn't this increase flexion?

The ortho section of the APTA recommends the following for cervical radic: traction, thoracic manip, neurodynamics. Besides cervical radic traction is not indicated of the C/S.

 

[jakeislove]

My bad with the other response as I just saw you were commenting on cervical radic. I would say a couple things though. I'm guessing you're talkin about reversal of the lordosis of the C/S as it relates to radic? Is there a correlation? Can you isolate traction to specific segments? Normally C/S traction has an uptilt ~ 15 degrees so wouldn't this increase flexion?

The ortho section of the APTA recommends the following for cervical radic: traction, thoracic manip, neurodynamics. Besides cervical radic traction is not indicated of the C/S.

Traction would leave less room for the spinal cord.

 

[DPTErudition]

I wonder how chiropractors explain rationale for said "adjustments". I really hope that they aren't explaining to patients that they're "aligning" a spine that's out of place.

 

[drjohndc]

I'll let 'em know at my CPR recert that for Vfib we should start considering chiropractic, forget the AED and rush the ER. And aren't many people with arrythmias old and on anticoagulants? I would think that manipulation for an elderly person on anticoags for an arrythmia is not recommened, especially "to stop the flutters for a short while."

No one said forget the AED and stop taking anticoagulants. On the contrary, anticoagulants are needed along with thoracic chiropractic adjustments. If the patient gets regular adjustments and
rebuilds the discs so the nerves are not compressed then the arrhythmia subsides GREATLY ! But they should NOT stop their medication.

 

[drjohndc]

No one said forget the AED and stop taking anticoagulants. On the contrary, anticoagulants are needed along with thoracic chiropractic adjustments. If the patient gets regular adjustments and
rebuilds the discs so the nerves are not compressed then the arrhythmia subsides GREATLY ! But they should NOT stop their medication.

And don't anybody say that the discs can't be rebuilt or that makes you incompetent. Forget trying to score points with sarcastic remarks. Do you want to be competent or not?
Always remember the meds are needed with chiropractic adjustments so the patient is treated with the best of both worlds.

 

[cdmguy]

DDD coincides with shortened disc height, and therefore stenosis? People with stenosis often compensate to some flexion or kyphosis of the lumar spine? Sustained extension is not recommended minus for essential ADL's (in this case relatively speaking it would be standing)? I don't know why you would simultaneosly want to traction and increase lordosis in this case. Is there another way to traction plus lordosis besides in the prone position? Also, traction is only indicated for radiculopathy that does't centralize with directional preference exercise, it's not indicated for DDD or axial back pain or hydration or lumbar radic that centralizes with directional preference exercise. IMO.

No, stenosis is thickening of the bony arches not just lost height. It is much more severe than the lost height (though the piezoelectric effect sets it up in the later stages). You can have severe DDD without stenosis and stenosis would be a contraindication because of what you wrote (these patients find that sort of traction very painful). Rational is that kyphosis isn't normal neutral position so it accelerates wear and tear through nuc pulposis prolapse and bone spur generating piezoelectric currents. Since it's biomechanics you have to look at all the joints starting from the feet up, not just treat the symptomatic areas.

 

[cdmguy]

Chiropractors can rebuild and rehydrate the discs and heal all cardiac pathology simply by adjustment of the spine and nutritional supplements and inversion tables (physiotherapy). I thought everyone knew this.

Don't forget their secret weapon, the ubiquitous "Spinalator table." I swear, every office I've been to has these to pad the bill er I mean improve disk rehydration (provided you buy a bottle of $20 branded chondroitin at the front desk).

 

[cdmguy]

I wonder how chiropractors explain rationale for said "adjustments". I really hope that they aren't explaining to patients that they're "aligning" a spine that's out of place.

Scroll up and read about how "nerve and innate inteference" does a body bad. That's the usual spiel. Oh and yes, only your friendly neighborhood spider-practor can correct (realign until your visit next week) those pesky subluxations (that nobody else thinks exists). Oh and if your back hurts before the next visit, it hasn't misaligned it's just a healing reaction.

 

[jakeislove]

Anticoagulants + cervical HVLA is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[drjohndc]

Don't forget their secret weapon, the ubiquitous "Spinalator table." I swear, every office I've been to has these to pad the bill er I mean improve disk rehydration (provided you buy a bottle of $20 branded chondroitin at the front desk).

Insurance companies don't pay for things are a totally useless or fake. The spinalator table helps keep motion in the spine. I don't have one to pad the bill. I have one because
it keeps flexibility and provides traction. And the chondroitin is great for people to help keep cartilage. What's wrong with chondroitin?

 

[cdmguy]

Insurance companies don't pay for things are a totally useless or fake. The spinalator table helps keep motion in the spine. I don't have one to pad the bill. I have one because
it keeps flexibility and provides traction. And the chondroitin is great for people to help keep cartilage. What's wrong with chondroitin?

Clinical Policy Bulletin:
Lumbar Traction Devices

Number: 0569

Policy

Aetna considers autotraction devices experimental and investigational because there is insufficient evidence to support their clinical value in treating low back pain (LBP) or for other indications.
Note: Brand names of autotraction devices include the Anatomotor, the Arthrotonic stabilizer, the Quantum 400 inter-segmental traction table, and the Spinalator Spinalign massage inter-segmental traction table.
http://www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/500_599/0569.html​

 

[drjohndc]

Clinical Policy Bulletin:
Lumbar Traction Devices

Number: 0569

Policy

Aetna considers autotraction devices experimental and investigational because there is insufficient evidence to support their clinical value in treating low back pain (LBP) or for other indications.
Note: Brand names of autotraction devices include the Anatomotor, the Arthrotonic stabilizer, the Quantum 400 inter-segmental traction table, and the Spinalator Spinalign massage inter-segmental traction table.
http://www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/500_599/0569.html​

They pay for mine.