Choice between two labs...

[nr922]

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Context: I'm a sophomore who's lucky enough to have the choice between two labs. Let's call them Lab A and Lab B.

Lab A is a much newer lab. I am less interested in their work, but I'd be guaranteed to start there sometime within the next couple weeks. I would receive 2 credits (at my school, 4 is a full course, and 2 is for labs or for 1/2 semester courses) with a good chance of becoming paid in the future. However, they are new and they haven't published anything. They want to put me at the forefront of some big projects that are exciting to me, but there's no guarantee that I'd be published. Plenty of time with the PI.

Lab B is more established and has many more undergrads and grads. Their work is more interesting to me. They want to put me through a two-week probationary period where my grad student mentor evaluates how much she likes me, as well as how much I like her. It's unlikely that I'll ever get credits/money for compensation unless I do serious advocating for myself. However, many undergrads receive authorship on the papers so there is a solid chance I would get a publication before graduation, but I'd be playing a smaller role in their projects since the lab is quite large. Relatively less time with the PI.

My goal with research is to have fun and contribute to science. I also want what's best for my med school application. What do you guys think?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Context: I'm a sophomore who's lucky enough to have the choice between two labs. Let's call them Lab A and Lab B.

Lab A is a much newer lab. I am less interested in their work, but I'd be guaranteed to start there sometime within the next couple weeks. I would receive 2 credits (at my school, 4 is a full course, and 2 is for labs or for 1/2 semester courses) with a good chance of becoming paid in the future. However, they are new and they haven't published anything. They want to put me at the forefront of some big projects that are exciting to me, but there's no guarantee that I'd be published. Plenty of time with the PI.

Lab B is more established and has many more undergrads and grads. Their work is more interesting to me. They want to put me through a two-week probationary period where my grad student mentor evaluates how much she likes me, as well as how much I like her. It's unlikely that I'll ever get credits/money for compensation unless I do serious advocating for myself. However, many undergrads receive authorship on the papers so there is a solid chance I would get a publication before graduation, but I'd be playing a smaller role in their projects since the lab is quite large. Relatively less time with the PI.

My goal with research is to have fun and contribute to science. I also want what's best for my med school application. What do you guys think?

It's up to you what your priorities are. From the description, why can Lab A give you course credit while Lab B cannot? The dilemma you pose is one facing every entering Ph.D. student who has this choice. Even those grad students are drawn to the rockstar PI's and the networking they provide. On the other hand, the project is very important, and finding a good PI in a small lab is often a true gift and boost to your enjoyment of the research (that was what I chose, and we excelled). Granted, there is also the risk that you don't work out or funding disappears.

I always like having more direct connection with my research PI, especially when it comes to getting a solid letter of recommendation that is personable and replete with confidence (read and give: Writing an Effective Letter of Recommendation ). I know plenty of PIs who run their lab like Lab B and still get enough interaction with all of their trainees (though it's not always true if you have a rockstar PI).

So my short-term view, I'd go for A if you have a chance for a tangible benefit like credit for your independent research or getting paid as a research assistant. You're a sophomore, and while I think everyone should learn to advocate for themselves at some point, any friction with one person in the lab group could doom you if you're naive.

 

[ontiquicuo]

I'd take Lab A. I'm picky about where I give away my labor. Unless you are applying to elite research focused schools, research output is less important than most applicants think.

 

[polymerization]

Shadow both labs for a day and observe what the undergrads are doing. Talk to them: you want to enter a situation that is collaborative and with enough active projects that your potential lab mates will not feel their specific role in the lab is threatened. Ask them about their goals, how often they interact with the PI, how much the PI helps them (pulls strings with other faculty, recommendation letters for grants and applications, general undergrad advising, etc), and what they have gotten out of the experience already.

Ask the graduate students how often undergrads come into the lab, and how long they stay. Are graduates out of their lab successful? Usually lab websites will include a list of previous mentees; Google them and find out where they landed... if they are all PhDs, that is valuable information. In that vein, see how many of those mentees got to get their name on a publication.

Undergrads are promised the world in exchange for their free labor. What I have found in my personal experience and through years here and on other forums is that undergrads really don't have any way of verifying or (much less) enforcing those promises. So you have homework: figure out for yourself what others will not dare to share with you verbally, at least not while they are still there.

You really want to do this work upfront and not take a position to find out that they were never going to give you what you needed after you worked for them for 3 years. Or, worse, the PI has some specific bias against physicians and ices/pushes you out or writes you a lukewarm/negative LOR.

It happens. How often, I couldn't know for sure, but given the stakes, I think it would be devastating to have it happen to you. Yes, you are learning and they are training you, and for that you should be grateful irrespective of where you land (so of course check your attitude), but don't be naive either. Professors are very capable of duping a student, especially as they become more important, achieve tenure, and begin to see students as increasingly disposable. It isn't personal, just the reality of doing the same old song and dance for several decades combined with some degree of complacency.

Moral of the story is that nobody is going to care about you and your future the way you do (and some are very willing to undermine it), so make sure that you have the right people by your side before making a choice.