Just a small hint on choosing a school. A pass/fail school tends to make life much easier in the sense of decreased stress over GPA, ability to study things that are applicable and ignore trivia, and decreased stress when it comes to getting a residency. Residencies might frown upon a "C" GPA, whereas the same grade would be a pass everywhere, and they will look at what other stuff you have going (USMLE, research, volunteering, etc). I'm a big fan of the pass/fail system.
Choosing your school
- Thread starter ngozi
- Start date
C
cowme
Residencies barely care at all about pre-clinical grades. And if you are getting C's (in other words, barely passing), the odds are probably against rocking step 1.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2005
- Messages
- 15,463
- Reaction score
- 1,908
Beware the P/F ranked schools. You might think like the OP and end up 4th quartile.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2010
- Messages
- 484
- Reaction score
- 1
This is what I don't understand. VCU has just switched to P/F for year 1 & 2 but I had heard about this P/F ranked stuff and called to ask about it but the woman was so unclear. From what I understood we do get put into quartiles but she was all like "what residencies really look at are how you did on rotations and we take the feedback from the doctors and put that in the dean's letter". Well if we still get put into quartiles, how is P/F of any help when you don't know where you're standing?
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2005
- Messages
- 15,463
- Reaction score
- 1,908
A lot of schools are nominally P/F where that is the grade reported, but the school tracks all of your %s in each of your classes and uses that to calculate your quartile/quintile/third. So while it is relatively easy to pass, you still need to excel to obtain a competitive residency.
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2010
- Messages
- 950
- Reaction score
- 26
I personally don't like P/F just b/c residency programs will need to rely more on your ranking since they have no other way to determine how you compare to your classmates (if they even consider pre-clinical grades).
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2011
- Messages
- 141
- Reaction score
- 2
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2005
- Messages
- 15,463
- Reaction score
- 1,908
Still bitter eh?
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2011
- Messages
- 141
- Reaction score
- 2
I am sorry, I just like giving the bowtie folks a hard time. All in good jest, no harm intended. It takes all kinds to make the world go round 🙂.
I know lots of kids who got C's and rocked step 1, just depends on how much time you spend with 1st aid/qbank.
I should have added schools that don't present your rank to residencies... Where if you're on the top, you're "excellent," mid, "great," bottom "very good" or something similar. If they have some sort of ranking program, or H-HP-P-LP-F, then they're not really P/F.
My original comment was based on the fact I went to a P/F school and loved it. After reading stressed out posts here, and listening to my friends talk about their GPA, I realized the P/F takes stress away from medical school.
C
cowme
Most schools that are pass/fail have ranking systems based on 3rd year. My school was P/F for 2 years, then H-HP-P-LP-F for 3rd year. The 3rd year determined your class rank.
Regardless, all I was saying is that residencies don't care at all about pre clinical grades. Pre clinical pass fail would be an odd reason to choose a school, other than as a tiebreaker if all else is equal.
Also, I don't know of any school other than Yale that is truly P/F for four years. I know stanford may have been too, but that is changing (based on what I have been told). UCLA claimed to be P/F 4 years ago, but it was really a hidden Honors/Pass/Fail. Pretty much every other school that says they are P/F has some type of hidden grading system, which I think will hurt a fair amount of students who otherwise would have done better in a more structured environment.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2005
- Messages
- 15,463
- Reaction score
- 1,908
Residency directors know what excellent, great, good student means. Those schools aren't fooling anyone.
I wouldn't choose a school simply based on P/F system, of course... but I did think it made me not go crazy while some of my friends were going crazy over GPA. My school was not pure P/F, it included H... But a student without Hs did not stand out unless the residency was familiar with my particular med school (which they're usually not, unless they're linked). They also had ranking, but it was not published to residencies. While you're not "fooling them," you're certainly making grades (not just pre-clinical years, all of MS) less prominent, and USMLE + experience + statement + research + etc more important. I don't think I would have gotten some of my ivy interviews had my school had a GPA system.
Huh, is there a way to discreetly ask this of medical schools? Or is prowling SDN once again the answer? 😉
