Wait. Then disregard my last post. Long hours on a busy service is one thing, but it sounds like your doing everything. Yeah you’re basically a scribe.
The hospital attached to my undergrad institution hired scribes.
This is different, it was M4 once you had hopefully been able to master some info in M3.
Thanks so much. Yes, this echoes my thoughts exactly-I feel it isn't a team here, it's rather just me being used to work extra hours so they can go home early and not do notes at home
Oh no, no worries at all! 🙂
Thanks so much. Yes, doing my best to stay strong 🙂
She does not have the ability to edit them, per our EMR. Just can add comments. But I read them after she does that, 95% of the time it is "I have read this note and agree with it". It's a standard phrase she adds after each note.
Yes, its uncompensated time. Your employer may decide not to hire a scribe for you. Many physicians are on salary, working an additional 2 hrs at the end of the day does not increase your compensation..I'm not justifying the model, only explaining the mechanics. Lastly, when you recertify for your boards in 10 yrs, when you have a family and maybe kids, do you think your employer will give you dedicated time to study while working full time? Hello vacation and personal days. None of my colleagues who recertified received any dedicated time to study. Some rotations are hard, like this one. I dont endorse the model the @honeyo102 is subjected to. It is however what the real world is like for many Drs.
minus the paycheck of course
If we had the option to take vacation/personal days to study now, I'd be all for it-like working the long hours now and then 1-2 days off from my vacation time for shelf. Unfortunately we don't have that option as students.
Exactly. I'm doing the notes, documentation etc, staying extra hours to do it for people who aren't even my preceptor, so that they can get paid.
You will find that as a resident, and even an attending for that matter, getting paid doesnt take the sting out of long days, call and scut work. That said, I appreciate your thoughtful dialogue. Good luck and best wishes!
Hours vary each day. Some days, 6 AM-7 or 8 PM. Other days, 7 AM to 6 PM. It's always because of the policy that anytime any doc is in house I have to scribe for them. Our school pairs us with one preceptor and expects we follow that person's schedule-there are however days my preceptor leaves at noon or 1 but I have to be there til the last doctor is done.
You get the paycheck when you take on the risk. You have no idea how easy it is until you start signing charts with no one else’s name on it but your own.
There is always NP school if you can’t handle med school. I hear their online hours are a bit more user friendly.
Like I said before. I didn't post here for sarcasm and condescension. I worked very hard to get here. I'm overwhelmed because I'm working a double shift in a rotation designed for single shifts + studying. It is not unreasonable for me to say this. I'm not complaining because of a 50 hour workweek when I then come home and have no studying to do. I want to use the extra time to study-which makes me more knowledgeable. I've handled med school thus so far quite well, thank you very much. I just don't brag about it on SDN.
This is some of the best actual learning the op will get third year. I had easy rotations and hard rotations in medical school. I remember nothing from the easy rotations because I didn’t actually learn anything from sitting there staring at the clock. You learn by doing. Op is doing. They are learning, they just don’t know or appreciate it yet.
This is exactly it
You learn by doing, yes. But it reaches a point of diminishing returns. When I don't have time to read at home (which complements clinical learning) it's problematic. Schools have you read/take shelves for a reason. Because reading has a value in and of itself. If not, why wouldn't they just make all students work 80 hours?
I’m not being sarcastic. Medical school is hard; as it should be.
Then I'd talk to the clerkship director. They can tell you if this work is appropriate or not. When you see the patients for the other doctor, are you seeing the patients yourself first or just shadowing the doctor and scribing on the encounter?
Yes, no one said it isn't. But there's a difference between hard for the sake of our learning and hard because I'm being used as free labor. Working extra shifts for doctors who are not my preceptor, when that extra work isn't teaching me much...is not as high in educational value as a situation where I work long but not absurd hours, then study.
We go in together most of the time. Sometimes they let me see them alone. But...when I've seen 10 URI's in a day, the 11th through 15th are not much different. The A/P's are so similar. I still do all the notes.
You’re learning what normal is. This is part of your education. To learn who is sick and who isn’t.
Not sure what attitude you refer to, thank you very much. Would appreciate if you were not so condescending. Being used as free labor at the expense of my education is not fun. Like I said I appreciate the learning opportunities, but it's at diminishing returns now. I'm literally unable to study as much as I should and the point of medical school is yes to see/learn clinically but also to study-if it were not so, schools wouldn't have quizzes/exams/shelf. I've had rotations w/ long hours/call (aka surgery)-no stranger to it-but outpatient IM, working extra shifts that even doctors don't, is different.
I do with my original preceptor. She lets me go in alone first. I learn a ton with her.
Trust me, I know, have done it-my preceptor has me formulate differentials for the A/P. I do it a ton with her.
The very reason training entails residency is because people don't always perfect skills in M3. Just because I haven't perfected it doesn't mean I'd want to give up on shelf studying. Speaking of which, pretty sure skipping out on readings also can lead to a knowledge gap.
Doesn't mean it's right in any way...or moreover that it won't cause stress..oh well. Just a week left
Haha, I actually had surgery already and did very well in it. Also, inpatient IM is known to have long hours and the school makes it so outpatient is less. And in real life that makes sense. My preceptor and other docs at the clinic work 9 hours at the most. My hours are longer because I'm double shifting for people.
I think the fact that you did well on surgery, a time-intensive rotation with a shelf exam, suggests that you probably do actually have enough time to study for the shelf and do well in your current situation. My point regarding inpatient IM is that if you have a full inpatient rotation and a full outpatient rotation and take the shelf after you've finished both of them, surely you will have had enough opportunity to study.
Surgery was a different rotation, a different shelf exam. I know how comfortable I feel or don't feel with regards to individual exams. And most people at my school apparently don't do well on IM shelf even with easy outpatient rotations, which scares me.
