Church involvement as volunteering?

[Geekchick921]

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After the wedding is over, and we officially transfer to a new parish (we don't actually live within the boundaries of our childhood parish anymore, but they're letting us get married there), I was thinking of cantering or playing the trumpet at Mass at the new church. I love to sing and I love to play, and I haven't had a chance to do much of either for awhile, so I would love to do this. I was a kid when I did this frequently, but I don't think adult canters and accompanists get paid for regular Sunday mass.

Would you say this counts as volunteering? Or maybe just a regular EC? I plan on doing it anyway, but I'm curious about whether or not I can submit it as volunteer experience. I'm planning on also getting involved in a few of the volunteer programs at a nearby hospital as well, as the pre-med, pet therapy and regular volunteer programs there seem very rewarding. Thanks, guys.

 

[ten10]

After the wedding is over, and we officially transfer to a new parish (we don't actually live within the boundaries of our childhood parish anymore, but they're letting us get married there), I was thinking of cantering or playing the trumpet at Mass at the new church. I love to sing and I love to play, and I haven't had a chance to do much of either for awhile, so I would love to do this. I was a kid when I did this frequently, but I don't think adult canters and accompanists get paid for regular Sunday mass.

Would you say this counts as volunteering? Or maybe just a regular EC? I plan on doing it anyway, but I'm curious about whether or not I can submit it as volunteer experience. I'm planning on also getting involved in a few of the volunteer programs at a nearby hospital as well, as the pre-med, pet therapy and regular volunteer programs there seem very rewarding. Thanks, guys.

if you're just being involved in your church, then i think it's just a regular EC. Unless you're doing charity work, but you're not. It's just like singing in a church choir, you don't get paid, but you're involved in the church, nor is it considered volunteering.

 

[gators13]

I have attended a church in town for the past 11 years. Weekly I help change the colors that hang on the communion table, straigthen up the place, change the church sign, etc. I put that in my AMCAS application as volunteering. I was never asked about it in my interviews, but I think it showed positively. So, yes it counts as volunteering.

 

[TigerSoup]

You could try to swing it, and a religion-positive reviewer would probably believe you.

But I sort of feel like it's stretching the definition of volunteering. If I were in one of those college singing groups that have the outdoor performances, I could also try to argue that it counts as volunteering because I'm enhancing the campus environment for the people who pass by. But that doesn't really equate what I'm doing with serving up hot cereal to homeless people. Pet therapy sounds like it would be a blast though while 100% volunteer label-worthy.

Either way, I think the label you put on your activity matters very little. Adcoms are intelligent people, and they can probably understand perfectly well what the activity involves from the description you give regardless of category, though you could note that it was unpaid if you decide not to mark it as volunteer.

 

[FinchHead]

I don't understand why there are so many people of "faith" in medicine. It confuses and depresses me.

But anyway, you can put whatever you want as an EC. If you have had meaningful experiences with it, then go ahead, it may lead to some conversation during an interview. Just don't over-do it and saturate your PS and such with it, and don't think it can replace meaningful volunteering.

 

[gators13]

I don't understand why there are so many people of "faith" in medicine. It confuses and depresses me.

But anyway, you can put whatever you want as an EC. If you have had meaningful experiences with it, then go ahead, it may lead to some conversation during an interview. Just don't over-do it and saturate your PS and such with it, and don't think it can replace meaningful volunteering.

What do you mean? Why is that surprising? I assume by "meaningful" you are alluding to clinical volunteering, and that you are not trying to offend anyone.

 

[mmc48]

I don't understand why there are so many people of "faith" in medicine. It confuses and depresses me.

But anyway, you can put whatever you want as an EC. If you have had meaningful experiences with it, then go ahead, it may lead to some conversation during an interview. Just don't over-do it and saturate your PS and such with it, and don't think it can replace meaningful volunteering.

I think Finch is looking for someone to bite on this one, so...I will. I think many people of faith (including myself) see parallels between medicine and religion. Part of my faith includes helping others in need, which is a pretty common theme in medicine. So one can easily make the logical jump from there. Many people of faith are also interested in science, as religion and science are NOT mutually exclusive. So medicine seems a natural avenue for those who want to help people and are interested in science, regardless of what faith (or lack thereof) to which they adhere. Regardless, you will work with people of varying faiths, so I would hope you adopt a more mature attitude in working with and addressing such people in the future.

To the OP:

I would consider just a plain EC. I think you would be stretching it too much to be volunteering. But definitely list it because it gives insight into your personality and into who you are.

 

[146233]

I would consider just a plan EC. I think you would be stretching it too much to be volunteering. But definitely list it because it gives insight into your personality and into who you are.

Agreed. 🙂

 

[BigMDT]

its just an EC. i wouldnt play it out too much though.


separation of church and state, foo. agnostic/atheist physicians (aplenty) might sneer at it?

 

[FinchHead]

My suprise is because there is a much higher percent (MUCH higher, from the last data I saw) of faithful people in medicine, then other science based professions. It depresses me because (as an obvious athiest...) I was expecting more people of simliar mindset. I guess it's too demanding to want it all.

Part of my faith includes helping others in need, which is a pretty common theme in medicine. So one can easily make the logical jump from there.

I can definitly see where you're going with this. I've considered it, and for a while held it up as the real reason, but a study I read a while ago really took the wind out of the sails on that for me (http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/07/070730.curlin.shtml). So I'm still curious why there is so much faith in medicine.

 

[argencolts]

I can definitly see where you're going with this. I've considered it, and for a while held it up as the real reason, but a study I read a while ago really took the wind out of the sails on that for me (http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/07/070730.curlin.shtml). So I'm still curious why there is so much faith in medicine.[/quote]

FinchHead I appreciate your alternative thinking and don't take offense to it. I read this article and although it is rather interesting I also found it somewhat irrevelant. I think that it is very important to serve the underserved, but don't think that every ( or even most) people of "faith" are called to do so. Regardless of what area of medicine you are called to, you must be a faithful servant treating everyone the same ( rich, poor, etc.). Thus, that is why I don't find it surprising for there to be about as many non-religious people treating the underserved as religious people.

 

[mmc48]

Interesting article. I would note, however, that helping people isn't necessarily relegated to the underserved or poor. I would imagine people from all backgrounds, wealthy or poor, constitute those in need when it comes to recieving medical care. As far as why fewer religious people are serving the medically underserved may have to do with the inherent nature of the beast. For the most part, primary care specialties are needed in such underserved areas, and due to falling reimbursements and rising tuition costs, fewer folks are choosing those areas as their first choice of specialty. Many underserved regions are also in less than desireable areas (inner city or pretty rural areas), and then physicians may have family or other personal concerns affecting whether or not they will move to these areas. Is the religious person worse for not choosing to work in such an area versus the atheist/agnostic? I would hope not, for that's quite a double standard. A person's religious values would, however, have an impact on their initial interest in medicine due to its inherent nature. But, alas, the real world forces many to make choices based on things(family, debt, etc.) other than where they can do the most good. So I don't know that the article makes a great argument against why religious people choose medicine. The article does make one statement I really agree with: "No one knows how to select medical students in a way that would actually increase the number of physicians eager to serve the underserved,” Curlin said, “but our findings suggest that admissions officials should ignore both the general religiousness of candidates and their professed sense of calling to medicine.”

Also, why the interest in having so many like-minded individuals around you in your future profession? I personally think having individuals of varying backgrounds will be beneficial to me, not only professionally, but also personally.

 

[NewmansOwn]

What do you mean? Why is that surprising? I assume by "meaningful" you are alluding to clinical volunteering, and that you are not trying to offend anyone.

I don't think it has to be one or the other. In the interest of general friendliness we can assume he doesn't mean to offend, but that doesn't mean he's referring to clinical volunteerism. Giving CPR to toddlers is undoubtedly meaningful (in terms of volunteer work, which is the context we're in here), but singing in church...? Seems a little hazy -- one might argue that you're fulfilling obligations to your chosen religion. Moreover, I think Finch meant 'meaningful' in the sense that it contributes selflessly to the basic needs of mankind, which church music does not. For instance, you may set up the Gatorade benches for your local pro football team and not get paid for it, but is that 'meaningful volunteer work?' I would tend to argue not...

 

[FinchHead]

I see your point. Perhaps it was not as relevant as I thought. I guess I just have trouble with the idea that what a person claims is their faith ever really has any bearing on their real world actions.

 

[mmc48]

What good would my faith be if it did not have any relevance to my real world actions? My faith impacts my set of values and principles, and my actions are guided by that set. Don't your principles and values dictate how you react in a certain situation? I'm curious to see what you think, so rather than hijack this thread, if you would like to discuss it, shoot me a pm. I'll be on and off all day.

 

[Blade28]

Sounds like an EC to me.

 

[HSTeacher2MD]

I see your point. Perhaps it was not as relevant as I thought. I guess I just have trouble with the idea that what a person claims is their faith ever really has any bearing on their real world actions.

Be really careful here. You're basically saying that all people of faith are hypocrites and do not "practice what they preach." That might be your experience, and I'm not going to deny the existence of such people. Unfortunately, there are many of them out there (and many of them are also involved in politics...but I digress) However, there are many people of faith who DO follow through on what they believe and you'll meet these in and out of medical school, in the real world and as your future patients.

I might suggest a little more open attitude towards religion/faith. We all have morals (religious and non-religious alike) and it basically comes down to the root of our morality. I don't think it's really something to get depressed over.

To the OP: definitely list it as another EC. Involvement in something like this shows your versatility, that you have a life outside of academics and your creativity. I wish I had the time to do the same at my church.

 

[smeagol]

Religious fanaticism can certainly be frightening.

But the zealous atheist, he too, can be frightening for the same reasons.

 

[NewmansOwn]

Religious fanaticism can certainly be frightening.

But the zealous atheist, he too, can be frightening for the same reasons.

How many people have zealous atheists killed in the name of atheism? The victims of the Crusades, jihads, abortion clinic bombings and the Israeli-Palestine conflict are calling you out.

 

[midn]

Wow, this thread took a complete 180.

I would agree with the rest that this is just an EC. This just doesn't sound right as volunteering and some adcom members would less favorably on you listing it as volunteering. Putting it as an EC would be less imposing and let the adcom know more about you as a whole.

 

[FinchHead]

I think this is the second thread I've derailed tonight... my bad. I think the origional question has been answered sufficiently.

 

[LizzyM]

This is volunteer - non-clinical (unless you are paid, and some churches do pay their cantors and musicians, in which case it is Employment, non-military).

It does provide an example of how you choose to spend your "free time".

 

[Geekchick921]

This is volunteer - non-clinical (unless you are paid, and some churches do pay their cantors and musicians, in which case it is Employment, non-military).

It does provide an example of how you choose to spend your "free time".

Thank you, Lizzy! I do not expect to be paid to sing or play at regular weekly Mass. I know it is common for cantors and such at special Masses, like weddings and maybe funerals to get paid, but I don't expect to be doing much, if any, of that anyway.

To all the people that have turned this into a religion & medicine discussion... whoa. This thread has gotten nuts. Personally, I'm really not all that religious (hell, I "live in sin" with my fiance right now), but I love to sing and I love to play. People often come up to me as mass lets out telling me my voice is lovely; I have the right kind of voice for church music... and musical theatre. Anyway, it is one of the few means of singing or playing without getting into a community theatre group (WAY too cliquey) or, God forbid... becoming a Mummer or something. No thank you.