MD Civil disobedience/protest arrest - impact on residency application or licensing?

[478sr478]

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If you are arrested for nonviolent political civil disobedience, is this likely to have any affect on your medical career, ie residency applications or medical board licensing? Sorry if this has been asked before - I tried searching but only came up with results about the effect on medical school admissions. I have been accepted to medical school so my question pertains more to career prospects following school. Thanks.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

were you charged?

 

[478sr478]

were you charged?

I haven't been arrested but am wondering hypothetically. I'm not sure whether people who do what I am thinking of are charged, or just arrested. There may be a misdemeanor charge. I know they get released within a matter of hours.

 

[DrDwayneJohnson]

I'm not sure whether people who do what I am thinking of are charged, or just arrested.

Maybe it's the ambiguity of your phrasing, but it sounds like a bold strategy Cotton. What are you planning on doing?

 

[478sr478]

Maybe it's the ambiguity of your phrasing, but it sounds like a bold strategy Cotton. What are you planning on doing?

Yes that was terrible phrasing. It's a nonviolent civil disobedience movement organized by a respected civil rights organization. I'm just trying to be vague for anonymity (which is probably excessive caution) and it came out wrong.

 

[deleted480308]

So this is something you are planning on doing?

How about you just don’t.....and focus on not screwing up your livelihood

 

[harkas]

Yes that was terrible phrasing. It's a nonviolent civil disobedience movement organized by a respected civil rights organization. I'm just trying to be vague for anonymity (which is probably excessive caution) and it came out wrong.

Depends on what you did. Peaceful protest? Probably not although you will likely have to explain it when the time comes IF you are arrested.

Also, never stop fighting 👍

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

So this is something you are planning on doing?

How about you just don’t.....and focus on not screwing up your livelihood

This this this.

Don't be Eugene whoever at Vandy.

 

[deleted480308]

Depends on what you did. Peaceful protest? Probably not although you will likely have to explain it when the time comes IF you are arrested.

Also, never stop fighting 👍

"never stop fighting" isn't necessarily good advice

try "never stop finding appropriate ways to fight things that absolutely need to be stopped and absolutely need to be stopped by you and absolutely at that exact time"

 

[Frogger27]

I recommend you cheer from the sidelines bud.

 

[Oso]

Lol gotta love SDN

"Hey guys, I might get arrested this weekend, will this impact my chances for top residencies? Incoming MS1 interested in ortho and EM"

Classic.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Yes that was terrible phrasing. It's a nonviolent civil disobedience movement organized by a respected civil rights organization. I'm just trying to be vague for anonymity (which is probably excessive caution) and it came out wrong.

Lol

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

think about this for a second

You're a residency program director

You're considering candidates to work for you in difficult conditions which oftentimes pushes people to their limits and frankly is sometimes "unfair"

The stability of your program is predicated on everybody doing their job and not trying to stir up trouble even when it sucks

a candidates application comes across your desk, with a history of arrest for "civil disobedience"

You consider that even though the candidate might have been supporting the right cause, they still broke the law and participated in behaviors disruptive to the current status quo

You realize such "disobedience" would likely be a PITA to deal with in your program for 4 years

You throw said application in trash

 

[DNC127]

Yes that was terrible phrasing. It's a nonviolent civil disobedience movement organized by a respected civil rights organization. I'm just trying to be vague for anonymity (which is probably excessive caution) and it came out wrong.

please tell us about all the iniquities your pow wow is going to solve . I actually think this sounds like a great idea OP. You should do it!

 

[harkas]

"never stop fighting" isn't necessarily good advice

try "never stop finding appropriate ways to fight things that absolutely need to be stopped and absolutely need to be stopped by you and absolutely at that exact time"

I doubt I need to explain this to you or the OP: Whether or not something that absolutely needs to be stopped is at discretion *of the person and what cause their fighting for.

Like I said, keep on fighting.

 

[Perrotfish]

If you are arrested for nonviolent political civil disobedience, is this likely to have any affect on your medical career.

So nonviolent civil disobedience is not a crime. Its an umbrella term that refers to a number of different crimes. What will you actually be charged with? Trespassing? Breaking and entering? Vandalism? Arson? Resisting arrest? Felony or misdemeanor? Obviously getting arrested is never good, but how bad it is depends on the charges. I agree with the above that you are both much less likely to change anything in society, and much more likely to destroy your life, by engaging in this kind of behavior during medical training rather than as a board certified physician. You're just a lot more vulnerable.

BTW you just documented, for the benefit of the prosecution, that you are fully aware that whatever you are planning to do is illegal.

 

[siliso]

Yes, it could impact your licensing or credentialing in future. Not that it definitely will, but it would be a risk you’d assume if committing a crime regardless of motive.

 

[478sr478]

I recommend you cheer from the sidelines bud.

This is what I'm leaning towards to be honest. My question is really whether or not anyone knows from personal experience/acquaintances whether or not it's actually an impediment. Being arrested for civil disobedience is not exactly unheard of and I know that many people are able to have successful careers after getting arrested (ie I found this link for law students who are worried about passing the bar: https://socialchangenyutest.files.w...gan-trostle_nonviolent-civil-disobedience.pdf). But the problem is that I really have no perspective on this for physicians.

 

[deleted480308]

I doubt I need to explain this to you or the OP: Whether or not something that absolutely needs to be stopped is at discretion *of the person and what cause their fighting for.

Like I said, keep on fighting.

And whether or not it ends your career is the discretion of residency directors, med school deans, medical boards, hospital credential commitees etc

Fight selectively knowing that your intentions don’t always determine the cost to you

 

[deleted480308]

This is what I'm leaning towards to be honest. My question is really whether or not anyone knows from personal experience/acquaintances whether or not it's actually an impediment. Being arrested for civil disobedience is not exactly unheard of and I know that many people are able to have successful careers after getting arrested (ie I found this link: https://socialchangenyutest.files.w...gan-trostle_nonviolent-civil-disobedience.pdf for law students). But the problem is that I really have no perspective on this for physicians.

But what specific activity are you speaking of engaging in?

Are you going to be one of those tools blocking traffic? Because they suck

 

[Skiiiiiing]

I haven't been arrested but am wondering hypothetically. I'm not sure whether people who do what I am thinking of are charged, or just arrested. There may be a misdemeanor charge. I know they get released within a matter of hours.

One time misdemeanor assaults usually survive, unless there's something aggravating. I doubt felonies are viewed in the same way.

Was this "civil disobedience" antifa arson/looting? That probably wouldn't survive.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Yes, it could impact your licensing or credentialing in future. Not that it definitely will, but it would be a risk you’d assume if committing a crime regardless of motive.

One time misdemeanors rarely impact professional licensing.

If it's violent, looting, theft or vandalism, there will be some fallout at the med school and with residency interviews. A one time thing can probably be overcome, but it'll get a lot of questions.

 

[harkas]

This is what I'm leaning towards to be honest. My question is really whether or not anyone knows from personal experience/acquaintances whether or not it's actually an impediment. Being arrested for civil disobedience is not exactly unheard of and I know that many people are able to have successful careers after getting arrested (ie I found this link for law students who are worried about passing the bar: https://socialchangenyutest.files.w...gan-trostle_nonviolent-civil-disobedience.pdf). But the problem is that I really have no perspective on this for physicians.

Without knowing what you actually did, it's impossible to say whether or not it is an impediment. But from personal acquaintances and being someone who is fairly politically active, being arrested for civil disobedience does NOT mean you cannot have a successful career *as a physician. I personally know a department chair who had this experience. But all cases were related to peaceful protest. If you are doing something other than this, it will likely affect your application negatively.

It also depends on what institutions you're applying to. For example, North Carolina may not look to favorably to BLM political activity whereas NY or MA will see it as an asset.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

OP, have you ever seen SLC Punk?

 

[478sr478]

Thanks for the info 🙂. Yes, all nonviolent. @harkas do you know if this person was arrested before or after already being settled in their career?

I am leaning towards erring on the side of caution but I appreciate the advice, including from the naysayers.

 

[478sr478]

OP, have you ever seen SLC Punk?

Nope but it looks interesting.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Without knowing what you actually did, it's impossible to say whether or not it is an impediment. But from personal acquaintances and being someone who is fairly politically active, being arrested for civil disobedience does NOT mean you cannot have a successful career *as a physician. I personally know a department chair who had this experience. But all cases were related to peaceful protest. If you are doing something other than this, it will likely affect your application negatively.

It also depends on what institutions you're applying to. For example, North Carolina may not look to favorably to BLM political activity whereas NY or MA will see it as an asset.

I don't think anyone will view a misdemeanor as an asset. Columbia maybe, if you excel at victim Olympics

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Nope but it looks interesting.

Well I'll skip the synopsis and possible spoilers and tell you this, don't be a martyr. You're better off working to make changes in the world once you have more social and actual capital as a physician.

 

[deleted707454]

Is playing a small roll in this endeavor worth losing your much larger future in medicine?

also
Doctor, Vanderbilt in ongoing Twitter feud after physician took a knee to protest racism

 

[Frogger27]

think about this for a second

You're a residency program director

You're considering candidates to work for you in difficult conditions which oftentimes pushes people to their limits and frankly is sometimes "unfair"

The stability of your program is predicated on everybody doing their job and not trying to stir up trouble even when it sucks

a candidates application comes across your desk, with a history of arrest for "civil disobedience"

You consider that even though the candidate might have been supporting the right cause, they still broke the law and participated in behaviors disruptive to the current status quo

You realize such "disobedience" would likely be a PITA to deal with in your program for 4 years

You throw said application in trash

OP read this. Think of it from a residency director stand point. You will be competing against extremely qualified candidates, 99% have no criminal record. Sure, whatever you *may* get charged with *may* not be a big deal, but why go through the hassle of having to explain it in the future/having it limit you before you even get a chance to show your face?

As someone else said, pick and choose your battles. You are now a professional in a career that unfortunately cares a lot about image. Don't do anything unnecessary that can harm yours

 

[AsianPersuasion]

I once gait belt myself to a tree to protest.

 

[harkas]

Thanks for the info 🙂. Yes, all nonviolent. @harkas do you know if this person was arrested before or after already being settled in their career?

I am leaning towards erring on the side of caution but I appreciate the advice, including from the naysayers.

No problem. It was before. You should always err on the side of caution if you can

 

[WingedOx]

This this this.

Don't be Eugene whoever at Vandy.

Is playing a small roll in this endeavor worth losing your much larger future in medicine?

also
Doctor, Vanderbilt in ongoing Twitter feud after physician took a knee to protest racism

Jumps into thread to be the "well, actually..." guy:

Gu didn't get in trouble for his protest. He got in trouble for falsely accusing a co-resident of assault... despite what he's claimed on the internet.

 

[DNC127]

Jumps into thread to be the "well, actually..." guy:

Gu didn't get in trouble for his social activism. He got in trouble for falsely accusing a co-resident of assault... despite what he's claimed on the internet.

Gu is a clown lol. I remember following him on twitter months before all that went down and I always thought to myself he was pretty extreme and the BAM he took it to the next level haha.

 

[WingedOx]

Gu is a clown lol. I remember following him on twitter months before all that went down and I always thought to myself he was pretty extreme and the BAM he took it to the next level haha.

At least the Krassenstein brothers are probably in it for some sort of grift. Gu just wants the attention of being a social media star.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Jumps into thread to be the "well, actually..." guy:

Gu didn't get in trouble for his protest. He got in trouble for falsely accusing a co-resident of assault... despite what he's claimed on the internet.

I think it's an example of making things worse. Without all the social media crap he's been flinging, I imagine this is one of those things that would have been fixed with a Stern talking-to and maybe probation at the worst

 

[WingedOx]

I think it's an example of making things worse. Without all the social media crap he's been flinging, I imagine this is one of those things that would have been fixed with a Stern talking-to and maybe probation at the worst

Yeah, though no one really knows what the status of his employment is at this point. At least not based on his twitter posts lately from what I've seen.

 

[Money Moniker]

Do it OP, 100% do it. I'll be chanting for you from the sidelines in support.

1-2-3-4 that darn Drumpf has got to go!

You might ruin your career but at least you'll be able to tell your kids you did your part to stop Drumpf and roll back the concentration camps.

 

[Rendar5]

Every single time you have to get hospital credentials, apply for Medicaid/Medicare privileges, apply for board certification, apply for DEA license and state licenses, or renew any of the above (1-2 times every year for the rest of your life sometimes even 3-4 times per year), you will have to explain what you were arrested for and explain why it won’t be an impediment. It may slow down state, licenses and may make it difficult to allow yourself to take Medicare or Medicaid patients. The rest of the stuff is just plain annoying. Just don’t, it’s not worth it.

 

[ploidy]

How many lives you can impact as a single protester vs being a doctor.

that's your call.

 

[CajunMedic]

I've got multiple 20 year old misdemeanors on my record. (took a hard left turn for a few years) Didn't really cause me problems getting into med school. BUT. It was a hot potato on the residency interview trail, Pretty much every one asked about it, wouldn't doubt a bit if it factored into ranking decisions. I've had to explain it multiple times to the State Board of Medical Licensure and the hospital where I'm doing my internship for credentialing. My training license will undoubtedly be delayed while someone in Arkansas digs through 27 dusty boxes of records to find the court documents. It will undoubtedly rear it's ugly head when I go in the match again next year.

Trust me on this, It will haunt you and be a pain in the ass for the rest of your medical career.

 

[flapjack3d]

People posting here are ridiculous, but if they're any indication of the personality types of your future PD's and colleagues, i think you've got your answer.

 

[Frogger27]

People posting here are ridiculous, but if they're any indication of the personality types of your future PD's and colleagues, i think you've got your answer.

Or, people who want to go play in the street thinking they are making a tangible difference in society while risking their career (which actually does make a tangible difference in society) are ridiculous

 

[Rei02sDinnerParty]

be the change you want to see in the world OP!